Wargear "and/or" wording question

[Moros]

There are many times in a few different books that models have this phase used.

For example, Blood Angels Captain says he can "Replace boltgun, bolt pistol and/or chainsword with:" then lists off a bunch of wargear.

My question is, can you replace each of those with a choice from the list? Or are ALL 3 replaced by a SINGLE choice from the list (or just one of the three replaced with a single choice)???

It's very confusing and just wondering the ruling on this.

[Culven]

You can replace any of those items with something from the list. So, you could replace just the Bolt Pistol OR the CCW with a Powerfist, or you could replace each of his Bolt Pistol AND his CCW with a Powerfist (for the overpriced extra attack).

[Tynskel]

ya know, that doesn't quite make sense.

It is easier to explain when ya look at what weapons the model carries initially.

Something like a Death Company (I don't have the book in front of me):
Bolter or Chainsword
Bolt Pistol
frags, ect.

The Death Company carries two weapons, and therefore you can replace the two weapons with up to two other weapons.

There is the rare instance of an older codex, like Dark Angels, where you can replace a Bolt Pistol (or something) with a pair of lightning claws. In this rare case, they are considering the lightning claw pair as a single weapon.

[Tynskel]

You can replace any of those items with something from the list. So, you could replace just the Bolt Pistol OR the CCW with a Powerfist, or you could replace each of his Bolt Pistol AND his CCW with a Powerfist (for the overpriced extra attack).

heheh, but sure makes a fun looking model that does a beat down! My Death Company 'sgt' has two powerfists. he wears dark angels robes, and has a bolter too (I use him as my Power Armor Calgar stand in too).

[lowdog]

For example, Blood Angels Captain says he can "Replace boltgun, bolt pistol and/or chainsword with:" then lists off a bunch of wargear.


the fact it says "and/or" and not just "and" is the deciding factor. The use of "or" allows the substitution of a single item for an item from the list. If they intended all three to be replaced there'd be no need for the "or" qualifier.

[jorz192]

Thanks for bringing up this question I have been confused too.
Can a death company model take a bolter and a cc weapon? And if he does will he get the extra attack?

[Tynskel]

a bolter is not a close combat weapon, and therefore does not add an additional attack.

Death Company have Relentless, so the can rapid fire and charge. And the way the weapons choices are set up, you can give a powerfist and a Bolter to someone, so they get the benefits of firing and charging with redonkulous weapons.

all at the cost of Rage. (oh and if they are flying, 35 points a model!)

[dannyat2460]

heheh, but sure makes a fun looking model that does a beat down! My Death Company 'sgt' has two powerfists. he wears dark angels robes, and has a bolter too (I use him as my Power Armor Calgar stand in too).

You cant have 2 power fists and a bolter

Bolter or CCW
Bolt pistol

May replace bolter and/or boltpistol with:
........
.......
........
power fists 25pts
........
..........

as you have replaced both your bolter and bolt pistol for a pait of power fists you no longer have the bolter

but good idea i myself have made a "mini" calgar in my death company squad

[Moros]

You cant have 2 power fists and a bolter

Bolter or CCW
Bolt pistol

May replace bolter and/or boltpistol with:
........
.......
........
power fists 25pts
........
..........

as you have replaced both your bolter and bolt pistol for a pait of power fists you no longer have the bolter

but good idea i myself have made a "mini" calgar in my death company squad


so what's the ruling then? you get to pick up to 3 weapons? or 2? or 1?

[Tynskel]

You cant have 2 power fists and a bolter
as you have replaced both your bolter and bolt pistol for a pait of power fists you no longer have the bolter
but good idea i myself have made a "mini" calgar in my death company squad

Oh, yeah, I know.

The bolter is there because these guys were made when the BA codex was a white dwarf. Since they were all the same, I just armed him to make him look cool (as with all of my death co. they either have two swords, two bolt pistols, lightning claws and axes, grenades, ect). Usually, I have count him as powerfist and bolter. sometimes I feel silly and give him two powerfists.

[Tynskel]

so what's the ruling then? you get to pick up to 3 weapons? or 2? or 1?

Death Company come with 2 Weapons. They can only exchange up to both weapons.

[Moros]

Death Company come with 2 Weapons. They can only exchange up to both weapons.

What about a Captain? Can he take a stormshield and powerweapon? Or even a stormshield, powerweapon, and thunderhammer????

[Tynskel]

captain only has two weapons, therefore you can only exchange for two items.

stormshield + power weapon
or
bolter and Thunder hammer

or
combi-plasma and powerfist

ect

[Daemonette666]

heheh, but sure makes a fun looking model that does a beat down! My Death Company 'sgt' has two powerfists. he wears dark angels robes, and has a bolter too (I use him as my Power Armor Calgar stand in too).
You could tweak the rules around to almost break them with a simple rule like this - I.E. you could get 2 x 2 handed weapons such as 2 bolters. It is completely illegal, because they mention somewhere that a model can only carry a 2 handed weapon or 2 one handed weapons unless the model is something like an adeptus mechanicus and is wearing a servo harness.

[Gir]

You could tweak the rules around to almost break them with a simple rule like this - I.E. you could get 2 x 2 handed weapons such as 2 bolters. It is completely illegal, because they mention somewhere that a model can only carry a 2 handed weapon or 2 one handed weapons unless the model is something like an adeptus mechanicus and is wearing a servo harness.

I'm pretty sure you mean one two-handed wepaon and a one-handed weapon OR two two-handed weapons.

[dannyat2460]

in the new codex's there is no such thing as one handed and two handed weapons, just the ammount of weapon slots you can take

[Tynskel]

You could tweak the rules around to almost break them with a simple rule like this - I.E. you could get 2 x 2 handed weapons such as 2 bolters. It is completely illegal, because they mention somewhere that a model can only carry a 2 handed weapon or 2 one handed weapons unless the model is something like an adeptus mechanicus and is wearing a servo harness.

there is no restriction like this in the 5th Edition Codex. You cannot get 2 bolters, but you could take a bolter and a combi-weapon.

Check out the Space Marine FAQ. Even though it was implicit from the written rules, there is a FAQ answer that states you can have a Storm Shield and a Relic Blade.