A viable fire dragon replacement?

[He who shall not be named]

Are Wraithguard a suitable replacement for the Venerated fire dragons? Wraithguard have a few things going for them. These include high toughness, strength and a better save, a weapon that causes instant death and has a longer range against high armor value targets. However there are some downsides. Some of which are, high points cost, and the requirement of a warlock. So tell me what you guys think, is the wraithguard a good alternative to the fire dragon or not?

[DarkLink]

Unfortunately, you're paying more than twice as much per model for a weaker gun. And while Wraithguard are tough, there's plenty of stuff out there that can wipe T6 models off the board quickly. Or your opponent can tie them up in combat where they become useless.

6 Fire dragons are 96pts. 5 Wraithguard with a spirit seer is more than 200pts.

Not to say that you can't use them, they're just probably not the "optimum" choice.

[Valkerie]

On the other hand, since most people don't play them, that might give you an advantage, since most of your opponents won't be familiar with their capabilities. An Eldar unit with 5 (or more, not familiar with the Codex at all,:)), long range anti tank shots and the ability to insta-death other models? (Hello, Nob Bikerz) This could have definite possibilities. I would be interested in seeing it tried out.:)

[DarkLink]

Their gun isn't exactly long ranged. Squad size if 5-10, but they take up two spaces in a transport so you can only get 5 and a spirit seer in there.

[lowdog]

Is there still a way to go Iyanden and get them as troops choices? I don't know if that changes the calculus any to take 3-5 units of them as scoring objective holders that can project a zone of anti-mech? Backed up by multiple Wraithlords or some scorpions/banshees to keep peeps off them in combat?

[Crotch Lictor]

Current dex says you need a minimum of 10 plus a Spiritseerto use them as troops. That's over 350 points right there.

[He who shall not be named]

Probably should have rephrased what i men't by longer range anti tank shots. What i should have said was that it can damage high av targets at 12" as opposed to 6". There are some more plus sides to having wraithguard however. One of which is being able to take cover with them using the warlock. Sure its only a 5+ but it helps against those battle cannon shots. they also present the enemy with something they haven't very often but the list can go on for fire dragons as well.

[Tynskel]

wraithguard fill a niche in the Eldar army, as with all eldar armies, what really matters is what is the rest of the army doing. Then pick units that support the overarching strategy.

[DarkLink]

Right. Thinking of them as a "fire dragon replacement" isn't the right question to be asking.

[scadugenga]

Exactly what Tynskel said.

If you're not building your list with the overall purpose and synergy in mind, you are going to lose a lot of games with an eldar army.

Best way to build an army:

1) Envision overall strategy/intention
2) Decide how you are going to bring about #1
3) Pick units that--together--will tie your strategy together.


44) Profit!

[He who shall not be named]

I keep forgetting that i actually have to figure out how each eldar unit relates to the others. Back on the subject of wraithguard. A good advantage about them is that they aren't as Suicidal as fire dragons.

[Scion_of_Terra]

Wraithguard are however the premier anti-Monolith unit in the game. Admittedly this is situational, but informing your opponent that AV 14 and Living Metal doesn't do jack squat against wraithcannon is priceless.

[fuzzbuket]

whraithguard are not so fun with mech dar :(

however with footdar a 10 man T6 squad with a farseer and re-roll armour+ 5+ cover (given by the spiritseer) is a fun unit :D


p.s.remember wraithguard are T% and can re-roll a lOT with a farseer

[Tynskel]

10 Wraithguard protected by assault back up (harlies, scorpians, banshees) is pretty scary.

[rle68]

Unfortunately, you're paying more than twice as much per model for a weaker gun. And while Wraithguard are tough, there's plenty of stuff out there that can wipe T6 models off the board quickly. Or your opponent can tie them up in combat where they become useless.

6 Fire dragons are 96pts. 5 Wraithguard with a spirit seer is more than 200pts.

Not to say that you can't use them, they're just probably not the "optimum" choice.

my only issue with what you said is that they have a weaker gun? im sorry but im going to have to respectfully disagree with you, A 3+ to glance any vehicle 5-6 to pen yeah its ap2 vs ap1 i dont see them being any weaker same range, wounds on a 2 like the fd's same results almost fd's need to be closer then wg do so to me thats a draw back

but the overall cost difference is a big win for fd's

[Da Gargoyle]

I fielded a 10 elf(?) wraithguard unit for the first time recently. Unfortunately I lost roll off and ended up on the side of the board with little cover. As a unit of 10 there was no transport option so I tried a screen of dire avengers to move them asap to cover.

The other guy was playing night lords marines and fielded two vindicators which he moved and blasted with 1st turn. All the wraithguard did was focus his shooting for the 1st turn which helped my waveserpent deliver to its assigned target. But that was an expensive way to do it.

The thing about wraithguard is everyone is concerned about them so they try to kill them at range. This means your best tactic is to menace with them but give them some hope of survivle to at least turn 3. Then you will have had the chance to do stuff with the rest of your army.

[DarkLink]

my only issue with what you said is that they have a weaker gun? im sorry but im going to have to respectfully disagree with you, A 3+ to glance any vehicle 5-6 to pen yeah its ap2 vs ap1 i dont see them being any weaker same range, wounds on a 2 like the fd's same results almost fd's need to be closer then wg do so to me thats a draw back

but the overall cost difference is a big win for fd's

It's not a bad gun by any means, but it's not as good as a melta against vehicles, and it's certainly not as good as the two meltaguns you can buy for the same price as one wraithguard. So it's not a great substitute for fire dragons, with cost being a major factor as you said.

[davel]

i run with a 5 man wraith squad in a serpent

yes i run them toards tanks and yes they are more survivable than dragons, they can in addition sit on objectives contesting them

I tend to run with destructor on lock to thin hords, though I have had sucess with enhance.

I tend to put yariel in with them as majority toughness 6 protects him from shooting. best to leg him away from the squad if he is going to use his occularis though wraith guard do have a 50/50 chance of surviving.

i keep there transport cheap with shuriken cannons and spirit stone

dave l