Is "The most important rule!" a tourney-legal rule?

[Zweischneid]

Simple question really.

Page 2 of the rules-section of the 40K rulebook introduces, quote, "THE MOST IMPORTANT RULE!"

"The most important rule then is that the rules aren't all that important! So long as both players agree, you can treat them as sacrosanct or mere guidelines - the choice is entirely yours."

Obviously, this is meant for the "hobby-" or "casual-" players. But it is still clearly flagged as a "rule", which got me thinking that, rules as written, I would be allowed to change any and all rules in a "strictly-by-the-rules-tourney" as long as my opponent agrees.

Either bluntly playing around with the scoring system, or perhaps more subtly, this could potentially be abused to give BOTH me and my opponent an advantage vis-a-vis all other participants in the tournament!

Legal?

[SotonShades]

you would probably have to convince the judge/tournament organiser to agree as well as they are there to ensure everyone is playing by the same rules in a fair and competitive environment... So I'd say probably no

[Tynskel]

Tournaments usually have their own rules. Ask the organizer.

[Zweischneid]

Sure tournaments may have their own rules. But most tourneys, for example Ard Boyz, use formulations like this:

"The 5th Edition Rulebook will be in use for all games and will be the definitie guide for all rules."

This, it would seem, clearly includes "The most important rule!" as it is a) in the Rulessection of the 5th Edition Rulebook and b) clearly flagged as a rule.

I can find no phrase in the Ard Boyz rules that would supersede or disable this particular rule.



Also, of course this is an "academic question" and I'd likely just get a smacking from any sensible tourney-organizer for misusing "the most important rule" in a clear attempt to cheat and "not as intended" :D

But from a stricly "legal", RAW perspective, I see no way to disclaim the validity of this particular rule (and by implication the malleablity of all other rules).

[Fellend]

While you are correct, I think you'll find that any such talk will cause a storm of nerd-rage to appear and tear the flesh from your bones

[lobster-overlord]

In a tournament, "both players" would have to be replaced with "all participants" should there be a need to change, but then the TI would be the one making the call.

Inside your own little game, it would have to be something that would only affect the outcome of your game, both players agree, and not be noticable (e.g. affecting the results of the tournament standings) to other players. Things like the cocked die rule... if you and your opponent for a particular game don't like the way that is "standard" for your area or the tournament, as long as you both agree, in just your one game, the go with your own method (unless you have a huffy overbearing TI, in which case, he/she's a douche anyway)...and as long as it favors both players in that setting and both have fun with it.

[Tynskel]

Sure tournaments may have their own rules. But most tourneys, for example Ard Boyz, use formulations like this:

"The 5th Edition Rulebook will be in use for all games and will be the definitie guide for all rules."

This, it would seem, clearly includes "The most important rule!" as it is a) in the Rulessection of the 5th Edition Rulebook and b) clearly flagged as a rule.

I can find no phrase in the Ard Boyz rules that would supersede or disable this particular rule.



Also, of course this is an "academic question" and I'd likely just get a smacking from any sensible tourney-organizer for misusing "the most important rule" in a clear attempt to cheat and "not as intended" :D

But from a stricly "legal", RAW perspective, I see no way to disclaim the validity of this particular rule (and by implication the malleablity of all other rules).

Ah, but you forget, the tournament organizer always adds their own rules on top of the 'Ard Boyz rules. This is why 'Ard Boyz is not even for all players, both monetarily and rules wise.

And, may I add, that all 'Ard Boyz rules have a specific rule of not being a 'git'. Meaning don't be an @$$ enough to need to use the 'most important rule'.

[BuFFo]

Legal?

No. Why?

At a tournament, there is only ONE law, one source of final rules, and that is the Tournament Organizer (and his judges). Rule books, Erratas and Codices don't mean jack in a tournament. This means you'd have to ask the TO if doing this is possible.

[MaltonNecromancer]

The reason it's not legal is the reason I don't and will never play tournaments. It should be, but it can't be, because the Most Important Rule invokes a very woolly sense of fair play and sportsmanship which by it's very nature cannot be strictly enforced; the only reason I can get away with enforcing it at our school's club is because:

a.) I'm the teacher.
b.) I can hand out detentions.
c.) I never actually play, I merely referee, so I have no vested interest in who wins, thus I am impartial.
d.) The club's aim are to provide a safe, secure and welcoming environment as part of an extracurricular school activity, and thus I have a legal duty of care to ensure that any who might use the club to carry out actvities that could be (and frequently are) construed as bullying are not welcomed back. Put simply, anyone who tries to rules lawyer, WAAC, or just engage in general one-upmanship has to be dealt with. They get a warning, then kicked out, never to return again.

Needless to say, The Most Important Rule actually is the most important rule in our club. Any mistakes? I take the blame, apologise, and act as the hate figure who can be easily blamed, thus keeping everyone else's "face" relatively safe. Having actual, real-world consequences to hand out for rules infractions is the only way to ensure sportsmanship and decency. The Most Important Rule isn't called that by mistake.

[DarkLink]

Tournaments really aren't much different than any normal game of 40k. You just may not know your opponent, and you may get a prize if you win. Not playing in tournaments ever because they theoretically place value is something different than you do is silly.

[BuFFo]

Tournaments really aren't much different than any normal game of 40k. You just may not know your opponent, and you may get a prize if you win. Not playing in tournaments ever because they theoretically place value is something different than you do is silly.

Experiences may vary, but opinions from the people I have gamed with, and myself of course, disagree with this.

In a friendly game, the game goes by much smoother with less rules arguments. You don't feel like you HAVE to win, so there is no real pressure.

In a competitive game, there is a time limit, so you move your models faster. You want to win to win a prize. The person you don;t know will nearly always try to pass things under your nose just to win, like moving 6 1/2" inches, or rolling one less armor save die, etc... Rules debates always happen, and more often than not I just feel like sh!t when I am either stomping a guy in a tournament or being stomped, like I don't want to be there.

In my opinion, playing friendly games and competitive games are two completely difference experiences, almost like I am playing two entirely different games actually.

[Lerra]

Imo, it really depends on the people moreso than the setting. I've met some people who take casual games very seriously, including arguing about petty rules and doing everything possible to gain an advantage. But at the local monthly tournament, most of the people there don't give a rat's *** and just want to get a few games in, eat pizza, and drink beer. The tournament is more like an organized play date that happens to have a $30 prize for 1st, with $10 prizes for best painted and best opponent. $10 entry fee, and that includes free pizza and pop - so most people don't care about the prize. They get their money's worth just from the food. And everyone wants to play quickly (and resolve disputed rules quickly) so that we can go out to the parking lot in between games and drink. Anyone who acts like an arse or takes the game too seriously gets banned.

Best small tournament ever =)

[Tynskel]

Well, sign me up!