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foostoofoo
08-30-2009, 11:18 AM
So when you die hard 40k fanatics are headin to a tournament, how do you go about writing your lists? What do you put in them and why?

I'm hoping for a veteran or two among you to speak up and share your views:)

Old_Paladin
08-30-2009, 12:42 PM
Never played in one, but have watched a couple.

The big advice seems to be, play your butt off [before the tournie].
Test out what works well for you, against as many different types of players as possible.
If you get your personal skill as high as possible, what you have on paper isn't as important.

If their are going to be special rules/senarios; make sure you know what they mean and how to play that kind of game.
If your army has "stupid" fast attack and elites, but your opponent scores a lot of points for wiping them out (or for you just not having any); you need to find the balance of including those choices. You'd kick yourself if you came in well, but the top-placed players got there because you gave them 'free points' that you didn't have to.

Culven
08-30-2009, 12:59 PM
For myself, a core of solid Troops is the key. With 3-4 Scoring units, I can then build out the rest of the army using units that will help support those Troops, often with specific roles in mind (ex. Anti-Tank, Anti-Elite, Mobile Ojbective takers/deniers, etc.). Then I will try to playtest and tweek the list, learning its strengths and weaknesses, and how to use it most effectively.

Chumbalaya
08-30-2009, 01:12 PM
A good player behind it all is the most important ingredient.

Your army needs to be able to deal with both extreme and balanced armies, win the scenarios (even the stupid ones) and be flexible enough that some bad dice rolls or losing 1 unit won't totally screw you.

Practice, practice, pratice, then practice some more. Find what works for you, learn the scenarios, and have fun with it.

Bigred
08-30-2009, 01:36 PM
Chumbalaya has it right.

Its more about not having a weak list, than having the best possible list. Just don't hobble yourself with a terrible list, and practice, practice, practice till you know your list inside and out.

Often at tournaments, the player who wins a game is the one who makes the least sloppy mistakes.

crazyredpraetorian
08-30-2009, 02:20 PM
Also, study other armies special rules. Get VERY familiar with them. You might try making a "cheat sheet" of special rules and characters. One mistake at a critical time could put you out of contention. Study your army's rules and all other codeices, as well. That is what I am doing, currently.

BuFFo
08-30-2009, 03:53 PM
So when you die hard 40k fanatics are headin to a tournament, how do you go about writing your lists? What do you put in them and why?

I'm hoping for a veteran or two among you to speak up and share your views:)

The list isn't nearly as important as the player using it....

What you need to do is become a veteran yourself, then you'll make tourney winning lists... Practice all the time....

AdamHarry
08-30-2009, 06:21 PM
Put in a lot of time and practice with your list. And try to play against different armies is important. if you only ever play against a single army you could get thrown a curve-ball when you face a different type of army.

A lot of your list depends on the codex, too. I think BoLSCON proved that a non min/maxed list can still win big...

Slann
08-30-2009, 07:59 PM
Well it has been said practice your list and know it well , and play too the objectives . With that said what I do is make sure I have at least 5 scoring units all in transports , actually I like most of my lists to be very mobile and able to get anywhere on the board I need to be . I make sure I have enough to kill tanks and transports with out to much trouble .My main targets are always transports there anti armor units .

Aceblitzkrieg
09-02-2009, 09:29 AM
Practice, and knowing your enemy. Balanced list also help too..

Ace

bloodangel001
09-02-2009, 09:57 AM
It realy dosnt mater on the list if you play the army alot and know its stranghs and weekneses. And the it realy comes down to the dice gods. if they smile on you and your tacts are good you cant loose.

Foreigner
09-02-2009, 09:59 AM
I personally go about building an army that plays in a simple but effective manner.

Its important to me in a tournament setting to be able to dictate the play on my table by forcing my opponent to change the way in which they normally play to adapt to what they see.

If you can practice your army enough times to be used to how it performs in all situations you can avoid mistakes and bad decisions that typically result in losses or ineffective wins.

Playing without making mistakes is the best way to win a tournament, regardless of the list being used. So build a list that performs for you in a consistent manner, then play it until you have seen what happens in as many senarios as possible, so you'll be ready for whatever comes up during the tournament.

Rahakanji
09-02-2009, 10:04 AM
First Build an armylist that feels and dont have any big mistakes in it...
Then play, play, play adapte your list if you find some huge mistackes remove them.
And if you find an armylist that works for you train against many armys...

DarkLink
09-02-2009, 12:33 PM
I've always felt that so long as you have a balanced list that you know how to play well, then the details of the list don't matter too much. So long as your list is balanced, you can use experience and skill to cover your own weaknesses, and take advantages of any weaknesses your opponent has. It really comes down to having a flexible list that you know how to play very well.

Vuron
09-02-2009, 10:45 PM
The player is 90% of it in my opinion. Its like Poker. A good player can play a bad hand.

...of course a good player with a good hand is better...

volrath8754
09-03-2009, 10:44 AM
Tools my man tools. That is what I try to include in every army I build friendly or competitive. I always ask myeslf what I am going to see at this tournament and how would I deal with that. Basically it comes down to not forgetting the somthing back at the armory when you need it most. :)

Xas
09-03-2009, 04:50 PM
build an armylist that can realistically beat anything that is trown at you. depending on the restrictions (or lack thereof) this means that you include enough melta (because las usually cannot accieve that in a cheap enoguh manner) to kill a 5 landraider list but at same time have enough flamer, blasts and boltguns to realistically kill 180 orks in 3 rounds of shooting (this means that you can kill the whole army within 5 turns if you take own losses into account).

then spread all the weapons around as much as possible without loosing focus. what does this mean? it means that your oponent shouldnt be able to take out a core aspect of your army by killing only a small part of it (he should have to kill at least half of it to for example get rid of every anti-tank weapon there is).

next make shure you can deal with any army specific weakness you might have (synapse, morale, phaseout, whatever)


finally spend the rest of your points on something "nasty" to either catch your oponent on the wrong footing and/or have something to controll his fire with (lash-princes are golden for that but seer council or nobbikers or a psyker squad /w callidus work as well). those are not to damage your oponent or do the things they are called "cheesy" for but to pull aggro from those units you need to survive.

nothing makes your last brood of 3 warriors (synapse) more invincible than a 8 bug squad of stealers "accidentally" parked in the open to be shot up.



once you are done... play and remove what doesnt work and include what you missed.

countenescu
09-03-2009, 11:25 PM
A few people have offered up the opinion that the player behind the list makes the most difference. I think the player and the list or inseparable. Usually, the sign of a good player is an intelligent list that will function against most if not all the armies.

I think the number one ingredient in making a tournament level list is understanding what you will potentially face in the tournament. In order to do this, you have to have a grounding in what is played commonly, how the rules work with those common things, etc. This comes with practice. Like the guys who said it before: Practice, practice, practice. And in that practice, you have to be able to empirically judge the units you use in the roles you assign to them. (I understand you like grotz. . . but I promise you they don't make good tank poppers- no matter how many of them you throw at the tank!). Practice has the side benefit of familiarizing you with obscure rules from a codex that may or may not be problematic.

deadmanwade
09-04-2009, 07:34 AM
A list that CAN take all comers is good. Its all very well expecting the majority of armies at the tournament to be this or that, but ultimately its the one that you didnt expect that will kick your guys all over the place.

Synergy between units and equipment, the ability to hurt whatever gets thrown at you without spending massive points doing so and some redundancy is best. Some units are just naturally awesome against anything. Look at Space Marine Sternguard. They can hurt you in a variety of ways, arent that much more expensive than their tactical brethern and have cheap upgrades so they can hurt you in even more ways.

Basically
Know your army
Know your strengths
Know your weaknesses
And if all else fails pray to the dice.

emhubbard
09-04-2009, 09:54 AM
I've playing a many tourneys since I got into the hobby. I field a Black Templars army that everyone gripes about. But I've placed 1st, 2nd, and third in as many recent tourneys.

I think that the K.I.S.S method is a solid strategy (keep it simple stupid). The last game for instance, I fielded two land raider crusaders w smoke, one carrying the Emperors champ and a 13 man squad w melta gun and power fist. The other 15 man squad w melta gun and power fist. A 20 man squad on foot with melta gun and power fist led by a chaplain (master of sanctity). For good measure I also had a venerable dreadnaught with multi melta and heavy flamer and x armor coming in via drop pod. Simple.

I give my opponents bad choices to make, tac squads with las cannons he can shoot the bolters at the foot squad or the las cannon at the tank either way the chain swords get closer. There is no lynchpin unit for the army, the kill points are very low and very hard to get. Trying to pop the land raider for one kill point, or wipe out the whole 20 man squad for one point takes all game, some opponents waste shooting at the drop pod to try and get that point but it takes from shooting at something move valuable. But I've seen opponents blaze away at the drop pod because they thought they could take it out for a quick kill point and allow my army to advance.

Also make sure to cut your liabilities, the templars have to test EVERY time they take a casualty so the tanks keep them from having to make that test, and keeps their numbers high for the charge. The chaplain removes that liability and turns it into an advantage with the auto pass of the righteous zeal. They can keep up with the LRC moving at cruising speed if they're lucky.

Its not flashy, or crazy, its three troop choices, with LRC dedicated transports (go templars) a chaplain, emperors champ and the dread and pod ( 9 kill points) Total and my opponents hate it, I tend to give up about 1-3 kill points a game.