RIGHT-Titan
01-27-2011, 05:21 PM
Soooo... I played my Vect list against my friend's Blood Angel list that came in 10th at the biggest tournament in Canada... Started off well. Even in a Night Fight mission I managed to sight his razorback in cover and with a single lance shot I wrecked it and forced his 5 man assault squad to bail out. It went downhill rather quickly though when I couldn't open his razorback spam and deal with Mephiston and not get shot to shreds by his Baal/Vindicator/Land Raider.
I dealt with several of his threats. Opened the Land Raider, killed Mephiston only losing a small trueborn squad in return, managed to blow off the demo canon from the vindicator, opened a razorback or two, but by that point he had wrecked basically all my vehicles and I couldn't get back on objectives in our 4 objective game.
What became apparent is that Dark Lances, while amazing when they do something - fail to do something too often. Far far far too often.
The previous list had 15 Dark Lances in it, plus 2 trueborn squads with 3 blasters each. I enjoyed the hurt the blasters were able to put on his furiosos when they dropped in, and they were instrumental in putting some wounds on Mephiston, but they ultimately end up eating it hard RIGHT after.
This is also true of the scourges I've fielded thus far, and while I enjoyed converting mine and still think I can make them make their points back and be viable, I've taken them out for now because it seems often they hurt a vehicle and then eat bolter fire to the face in mass quantities. That said, they do provide a bit of a distraction which any Dark Eldar player will tell you can be a god-send at the right time.
All that lead in to say I've worked out an entirely different list. My previous iteration was reliant on big fleets of boats. I had 5 Raiders, 2 Venoms and 3 Ravagers in the previous list. This one has many less vehicles, and most notably WAY less in regards to HQ. The Vect list had 2 Haemonculi as well as Vect himself which ended up being a lot of points in the HQ area of the FOC.
I've gone full circle up top and decided to try a list that does not focus on a big hitter up front but instead is the product of the sum of its parts. The HQ choice in this list a means unto an end, and that leaves me with a lot of games to play to see if that means is an effective avenue to victory.
The goal of this list is to maintain the same amount of long range shooting, but to eliminate small warrior/trueborn squads that get close and then take it in the face. I see the viability of small squads in certain games but I think they have more innate survivability if you can keep them out of range of the enemies primary guns. There are enough other threats in this list that if you shoot up the 12 trueborn spread across 3 squads you are probably mis-marking targets. At the same time I wanted to add more reliable means to get to the vehicle damage chart. Enough weapon destroyed and immobilized results will kill vehicles. I've seen it done against walkers in the backfield and tanks that sauntered too close.
Some of the most reliable ways to do that are via Haywire Grenade toting wyches and wait for it: Beasts!
I'll give credit where credit is due, and say that the writer of 'Yes the truth hurts' was on to something late last year when he proposed the idea of massed low strength rending attacks.
The fact that they hit rear armor in close combat means that they can open a lot of vehicles that I honestly did not expect. My big squads of Razorwing Flocks, being 8 strong per group, can move 6", run another potential 6" and then due to being beasts charge 12". Giving them a potential 24" charge range, and minimum 19" charge range. Once they hit you, they are doing 48 rending attacks on the charge, and 40 after that. All the while they have 40 wounds between them, 5 more wounds on the beast master and then with the 5th beast master taking a unit of Khymerae, you have some staying power against high strength shooting that would normally voip your heavy hitting birds.
With that sort of power being thrown in your face you almost have to deal with it, which should leave my vehicles a little safer. The one change I have contemplated is taking out a Ravager and swapping it out for a Talos. Coming out of a Webway portal with Chain-flails and a Twin-linked Haywire blaster, it too reliably opens vehicles, albeit at a much closer range. If left in the backfield it really forces your opponent to think about where he's going to drop those drop pods lest they be om-nomed by the Talos. The added beauty is that a Talos upgraded like that is the exact same price as a Ravager with Flickerfield so it's and easy swap and makes testing easy.
So here is the new list, sans-Talos.
HQ:
Haemonculous; Webway Portal - 85pts
TROOPS:
8x Wracks; Liquifier, Raider - 150 (Haemonculous lives here to deploy WWP first turn)
7x Wracks; Liquifier, Raider - 140
14x Wyches; Shardnet & Impaler, Haywire Grenades - 178
14x Wyches; Shardnet & Impaler, Haywire Grenades - 178
ELITES:
4x Trueborn Kabalite Warriors; 2x Dark Lance - 98
4x Trueborn Kabalite Warriors; 2x Dark Lance - 98
4x Trueborn Kabalite Warriors; 2x Dark Lance - 98
FAST ATTACK:
5x Beast Masters; 8x Razorwing Flocks, 5x Khymerae - 240
5x Beast Masters; 8x Razorwing Flocks, 5x Khymerae - 240
HEAVY SUPPORT:
Ravager; Flickerfield - 115
Ravager; Flickerfield - 115
Ravager; Flickerfield - 115
There you have it...
Thoughts? Critiques? Comments? I'd love to fit a 3rd unit of beasts, but at this point level I can't see it.
It has 17 Lances, which is actually 2 more than my previous list. It has less blasters and no Splinter Cannons any more which I'm sad to see go, but I really do feel that the Beasts and Wyches should be able to eat enough things.
Only time will tell.
I dealt with several of his threats. Opened the Land Raider, killed Mephiston only losing a small trueborn squad in return, managed to blow off the demo canon from the vindicator, opened a razorback or two, but by that point he had wrecked basically all my vehicles and I couldn't get back on objectives in our 4 objective game.
What became apparent is that Dark Lances, while amazing when they do something - fail to do something too often. Far far far too often.
The previous list had 15 Dark Lances in it, plus 2 trueborn squads with 3 blasters each. I enjoyed the hurt the blasters were able to put on his furiosos when they dropped in, and they were instrumental in putting some wounds on Mephiston, but they ultimately end up eating it hard RIGHT after.
This is also true of the scourges I've fielded thus far, and while I enjoyed converting mine and still think I can make them make their points back and be viable, I've taken them out for now because it seems often they hurt a vehicle and then eat bolter fire to the face in mass quantities. That said, they do provide a bit of a distraction which any Dark Eldar player will tell you can be a god-send at the right time.
All that lead in to say I've worked out an entirely different list. My previous iteration was reliant on big fleets of boats. I had 5 Raiders, 2 Venoms and 3 Ravagers in the previous list. This one has many less vehicles, and most notably WAY less in regards to HQ. The Vect list had 2 Haemonculi as well as Vect himself which ended up being a lot of points in the HQ area of the FOC.
I've gone full circle up top and decided to try a list that does not focus on a big hitter up front but instead is the product of the sum of its parts. The HQ choice in this list a means unto an end, and that leaves me with a lot of games to play to see if that means is an effective avenue to victory.
The goal of this list is to maintain the same amount of long range shooting, but to eliminate small warrior/trueborn squads that get close and then take it in the face. I see the viability of small squads in certain games but I think they have more innate survivability if you can keep them out of range of the enemies primary guns. There are enough other threats in this list that if you shoot up the 12 trueborn spread across 3 squads you are probably mis-marking targets. At the same time I wanted to add more reliable means to get to the vehicle damage chart. Enough weapon destroyed and immobilized results will kill vehicles. I've seen it done against walkers in the backfield and tanks that sauntered too close.
Some of the most reliable ways to do that are via Haywire Grenade toting wyches and wait for it: Beasts!
I'll give credit where credit is due, and say that the writer of 'Yes the truth hurts' was on to something late last year when he proposed the idea of massed low strength rending attacks.
The fact that they hit rear armor in close combat means that they can open a lot of vehicles that I honestly did not expect. My big squads of Razorwing Flocks, being 8 strong per group, can move 6", run another potential 6" and then due to being beasts charge 12". Giving them a potential 24" charge range, and minimum 19" charge range. Once they hit you, they are doing 48 rending attacks on the charge, and 40 after that. All the while they have 40 wounds between them, 5 more wounds on the beast master and then with the 5th beast master taking a unit of Khymerae, you have some staying power against high strength shooting that would normally voip your heavy hitting birds.
With that sort of power being thrown in your face you almost have to deal with it, which should leave my vehicles a little safer. The one change I have contemplated is taking out a Ravager and swapping it out for a Talos. Coming out of a Webway portal with Chain-flails and a Twin-linked Haywire blaster, it too reliably opens vehicles, albeit at a much closer range. If left in the backfield it really forces your opponent to think about where he's going to drop those drop pods lest they be om-nomed by the Talos. The added beauty is that a Talos upgraded like that is the exact same price as a Ravager with Flickerfield so it's and easy swap and makes testing easy.
So here is the new list, sans-Talos.
HQ:
Haemonculous; Webway Portal - 85pts
TROOPS:
8x Wracks; Liquifier, Raider - 150 (Haemonculous lives here to deploy WWP first turn)
7x Wracks; Liquifier, Raider - 140
14x Wyches; Shardnet & Impaler, Haywire Grenades - 178
14x Wyches; Shardnet & Impaler, Haywire Grenades - 178
ELITES:
4x Trueborn Kabalite Warriors; 2x Dark Lance - 98
4x Trueborn Kabalite Warriors; 2x Dark Lance - 98
4x Trueborn Kabalite Warriors; 2x Dark Lance - 98
FAST ATTACK:
5x Beast Masters; 8x Razorwing Flocks, 5x Khymerae - 240
5x Beast Masters; 8x Razorwing Flocks, 5x Khymerae - 240
HEAVY SUPPORT:
Ravager; Flickerfield - 115
Ravager; Flickerfield - 115
Ravager; Flickerfield - 115
There you have it...
Thoughts? Critiques? Comments? I'd love to fit a 3rd unit of beasts, but at this point level I can't see it.
It has 17 Lances, which is actually 2 more than my previous list. It has less blasters and no Splinter Cannons any more which I'm sad to see go, but I really do feel that the Beasts and Wyches should be able to eat enough things.
Only time will tell.