DE: Whats the point of the Archon's poison mistress.

[Terraforcer]

I have been reading around and I just cannot see her as being useful... Aside from being an extra wound for the Archon.

The mistress states that all of her and the Archon's poison attacks wound on twos. Now here is what I see as a problem;

First, aside from the splinter pistol almost every shooting weapon he can take already wounds on 2+ and most have better ap and can take out tanks (ie;blasters).

Second, the only poison weapon he can take in cc is already wounding on 2+. And unless someone corrects the agonizer to state that it is a poison weapon, I see no point in her.

[WereWolf_nr]

I have been reading around and I just cannot see her as being useful... Aside from being an extra wound for the Archon.

The mistress states that all of her and the Archon's poison attacks wound on twos. Now here is what I see as a problem;

First, aside from the splinter pistol almost every shooting weapon he can take already wounds on 2+ and most have better ap and can take out tanks (ie;blasters).

Second, the only poison weapon he can take in cc is already wounding on 2+. And unless someone corrects the agonizer to state that it is a poison weapon, I see no point in her.

Umm, yeah. They probably meant all attacks become poison 2+, but that is just wild guessing on my part.

EDIT: Well, 10 points for an upgrade to his splinter pistol and a couple poison 2+ attacks isn't bad in itself. Wouldn't buy two tho.

[Terraforcer]

EDIT: Well, 10 points for an upgrade to his splinter pistol and a couple poison 2+ attacks isn't bad in itself. Wouldn't buy two tho.

The problem with that is that you have to take at least one if you are taking a retinue. Its basicly just an extra wound... I admit it isnt a bad price, but it just doesnt make sense to give her useless abilities.

[WereWolf_nr]

it just doesnt make sense to give her useless abilities.

True enough

[Necron_Lord]

We haven't seen the mini for her yet. If it is some cool, evil and sexy concubine chick who is sculpted pretty well, it might be worth getting. Gamewise, your splinter pistol for the archon gets upgraded to a stinger pistol (5 points), you get a spare wound, and she has a venom blade (5 points). She is also cheaper than a medusa and has Ld 9, while the 'good' units have Ld 3.

[BuFFo]

She isn't a wound for the Archon since The Court is not a Retinue.

[Terraforcer]

She isn't a wound for the Archon since The Court is not a Retinue.

How are they not a retinue? They can not be taken unless a Archon is taken with them.

And you have to pay at least 75 points to take them would be pretty stupid if they don't count as a retinue.

[Nungunz]

How are they not a retinue? They can not be taken unless a Archon is taken with them.

And you have to pay at least 75 points to take them would be pretty stupid if they don't count as a retinue.

It says that they may be taken if an Archon is taken. They are also listed as separate unit choice and nowhere in there does it say they may be taken as a retinue.

The Archon can join them like any other unit that an IC could legally join....but they definitely are not a retinue.

[mstingray]

My friend plays with one of them, with his archon with a huskblade that wounds on 2+, although skeptical you can combine the power weapon and the poison I couldn't find anything in the rulebook so i just stay away from it now.

[Archon Charybdis]

My friend plays with one of them, with his archon with a huskblade that wounds on 2+, although skeptical you can combine the power weapon and the poison I couldn't find anything in the rulebook so i just stay away from it now.

That is just absolutely and horribly wrong. The Mistress of Poisons rule on pg. 35 states "All poisoned weapons (both shooting and close combat ones) carried by the Lhamaean and the Archon she belongs to are upgraded to poisoned (2+)." The Husk Blade is not a poisoned weapon by any definition, and doesn't benefit in any way. It doesn't work for Agonizers either, as Agonizers "are power weapons that always wound on a 4+," not poisoned weapons.

[Terraforcer]

My friend plays with one of themw.
If he is only running a single model from that unit he is also playing it wrong. You must take at least one of each of them to run the unit.

[Terraforcer]

It says that they may be taken if an Archon is taken. They are also listed as separate unit choice and nowhere in there does it say they may be taken as a retinue.

They are a separate unit but you may not take them withou an archon.

[Drew da Destroya]

They are a separate unit but you may not take them withou an archon.

Yes, but it doesn't mean they're a Retinue. They're just a unit that gets unlocked by taking an Archon.

If they were a retinue, they'd be pretty badass. As it is, the unit seems kinda meh... good modeling potential, but overall underwhelming. The Mistress would be much better if her Poisons rule applied to the whole Court, instead of just herself and the Archon... but oh well. The rest of the codex is awesome to make up for one "meh" rule!

To the OP, didn't you read the fluff section? "They are [...] extremely imaginative lovers". I'm thinking that any good Archon is going to need two! Twins, if possible, but clones would work in a pinch. ;)

[DrLove42]

My friend plays with one of them, with his archon with a huskblade that wounds on 2+, although skeptical you can combine the power weapon and the poison I couldn't find anything in the rulebook so i just stay away from it now.

I'm at work, so don't have the rule book with me

But theresa page describing 2 special weapons on one character. He can only use one, so either poisoned on a 2+, no ID, and no power weapon....or the huskblade but only at S3. Using a poison blade and a soultrap to make your huskblade more powerful before hand however...that's a good strategy...

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

If he is only running a single model from that unit he is also playing it wrong. You must take at least one of each of them to run the unit.

In the codex, I would agree with you on this, you have to take one of each type of 'Court personnel type'. However, in the FAQ from 17th January, there is a question related to Lhamaeans and how you allocate them to which Archon. The second line of the answer states ' Archons with a Court that includes one or more Lhamaeans will benefit from the Mistress of Poisons special rule. Now, I know this is only interpretation of the grammar and language used, but surely if you HAD to have one of each type of Court member, this question would be null and void? I therefore guess that perhaps the codex is incorrect (and has not been corrected here) and should actually state that you may take some Court members without having to take others. It would make a hell of a lot more sense, especially fluff-wise. That is how I would play it for sure.

[bryce963]

Wait Unzuul, so you are taking an unrelated answer, which actually gives you the opposite result that you think it does, conclude the codex is wrong and it has not been fixed in the FAQ?

You state that it has not been fixed, if it is so wrong wouldn't it have been fixed? They totally changed and went against the language of Power From Pain in the FAQ. If they would totally change a rule, wouldn't they have done it here if they meant to?

Also, "ONE or more", how are you getting that it may be less than one from that? It means what it says, if you have one, which you must have per the plain meaning of the options in the codex, any poisoned weapons the Archon has are 2+ and if you have more it still counts.

So yes, basically the Lahmean is totally pointless, and the court is going to only be useful as a hey I took the most useless unit in the codex, so I can play in your "hobby" tournament and not look like a dick.

Yes I would say that the court is more useless than mandrakes, mandrakes just suck, they don't have pointless rules, and T5 units that only matter when the rest of the unit dies due to majority toughness.

I might take some of the models and mix into units, I have a few skaven mixed into my ghoul based wracks, it's the gibbering monsters kind of thing. Pack masters with the shock staffs for liquifier guns, I'm using converted rat ogres for grotesques.

[Xas]

the reason for the rule?

well you get a pretty cheap wound for the unit with 2+ poisoned attacks and pistol.


the rule that upgrades the archons pistol if he has one is for CONSISTENCY/FLUFF only. cause you know people would complain about how "unrealistic" it is that the archons concurbine can poison her weapons but isnt nice enough to give him the good ammo for the pistol as well.


so all it does it make the unit not look silly when your archon keeps his basic pistol.

[somerandomdude]

In the codex, I would agree with you on this, you have to take one of each type of 'Court personnel type'. However, in the FAQ from 17th January, there is a question related to Lhamaeans and how you allocate them to which Archon. The second line of the answer states ' Archons with a Court that includes one or more Lhamaeans will benefit from the Mistress of Poisons special rule. Now, I know this is only interpretation of the grammar and language used, but surely if you HAD to have one of each type of Court member, this question would be null and void? I therefore guess that perhaps the codex is incorrect (and has not been corrected here) and should actually state that you may take some Court members without having to take others. It would make a hell of a lot more sense, especially fluff-wise. That is how I would play it for sure.

Here's what the FAQ was trying to address:

I have an Archon. I buy a Court (composition doesn't matter as long as I have a legal choice with at least one of each). As they are not a retinue, I do not have to keep them with the Archon. However, Lhamaean text says nothing about needing to be joined - she gives the benefit even if they are across the board.

Now, I buy a second Archon. I do not buy a second Court. I have a Lhamaean on the board. Who gets the poison benefit? The one who I bought the Court for.

[somerandomdude]

So yes, basically the Lahmean is totally pointless, and the court is going to only be useful as a hey I took the most useless unit in the codex, so I can play in your "hobby" tournament and not look like a dick.

The Court provides you with another 1+1 option. Sure, in 1500 point games you can't take advantage of that, but getting up to 14 vehicles at higher levels can be very daunting for opponents, especially when they're as mobile as they are.


Yes I would say that the court is more useless than mandrakes, mandrakes just suck, they don't have pointless rules, and T5 units that only matter when the rest of the unit dies due to majority toughness.

The only reason I agree with you here is because Mandrakes are being horribly misunderstood by the general populace. In a codex full of synergy, everyone is looking at the Mandrakes in a vacuum. :rolleyes:

As for your actual points about what makes the Court useless:

10 points for 3 attacks on the charge isn't a horrible price. Is it going to wipe out terminators or even full tact squads? Of course not. Is it going to give a little extra to help turn the tides of a battle? Yes. They're cheaper, yet more damaging, than your basic Assault Marine, and can complement your charge quite nicely.

Medusae have a Liquifier-esque weapon. Do I really need to go into detail about Liquifier Guns?

Sslyth can pump out a lot of shots alongside those templates and bring an enemy down before a charge. Oh, and you can get majority T5 in a Court with them, if you take 3 Sslyth and only 1 of each other option (last I checked 3 out of 6 is half, which then goes to the highest).

Ur-Ghuls are probably the worst of the group, with their lack of save (FNP can only go so far) and being 5 points more than the Lhamaean for only 1 more attack, as the strength bonus is worse than the 2+ poison. Sure, you can get a lot, but why bother?

After a lot of skepticism early on, I've come to realize that this is the first codex to truly give no horrible options. This doesn't include SCs, but I'm still trying to analyze Decapitator to see if I can make sense of him.

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

Well, don't agree. The inference to me is that you had a choice whether or not your Court contained a Lhamaean or not. It doesn't make sense that you'd have to have one of each choice, no FRICKING sense at all!!! I'm talking fluffwise here. So basically, I don't care how it's worded or how it's written in the codex, I'll have a Court with whatever the chuff I want in it from those choices. Arseholes to rules that make no ******* sense!

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

Seriously, I can't put 'God' and 'Damn' next to each other? The censorship on this site is ridiculous! Luckily I can use English profanity with abandon! WANK! NOBJOCKEY! TOSSER! WANG!

[crazy_irish]

Well, don't agree. The inference to me is that you had a choice whether or not your Court contained a Lhamaean or not. It doesn't make sense that you'd have to have one of each choice, no FRICKING sense at all!!! I'm talking fluffwise here. So basically, I don't care how it's worded or how it's written in the codex, I'll have a Court with whatever the chuff I want in it from those choices. Arseholes to rules that make no ******* sense!

Man, grab an beer and cool down now ;-)

But i know what you mean with the FAQ. It says, that if you have one or more Lhamaean in your court your archon can benefit from it. the problem here is, that no rule is changed by it. there is still the rule, that you have to take 1 or more, so even though it would be cool to leave here out, also i can follow you fluffwise, but look at it this way:

you dont have models for it, so this is a really nice count as Unit. Use what ever you want to play go with your archon.

here is what i use for Sslyth:
http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/files/thumbs/5gka-51.jpg (http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/files/5gka-51-jpg.html)



After a lot of skepticism early on, I've come to realize that this is the first codex to truly give no horrible options.
I totally agree with you

[Diagnosis Ninja]

Well, don't agree. The inference to me is that you had a choice whether or not your Court contained a Lhamaean or not. It doesn't make sense that you'd have to have one of each choice, no FRICKING sense at all!!! I'm talking fluffwise here. So basically, I don't care how it's worded or how it's written in the codex, I'll have a Court with whatever the chuff I want in it from those choices. Arseholes to rules that make no ******* sense!

It's worded like that on the chance that they could all die. Saying that the unit needs one or more for the rule to take effect means that the rule has no effect if the only ones taken in the unit die off.

1 to X of each model type in retinue.
Mistress of Poisons dies off.
Rule can't happen seen as model isn't there.

And just because I say retinue doesn't mean I don't know it isn't a retinue ;)