2500 DE 'Ard Boyz list (preliminary)

[thecactusman17]

Here's a list I whipped up looking ahead to 'Ard Boyz. I want the extra time because of two reasons: I want a fully painted army, and I really need time to pull together bits.

What's your verdict?

Units highlighted in RED are cancelled units from a previous update, to facilitate easier browsing.

Vect

Elites -- 356
8 Trueborn
--Dracon, w/ Blast Pistol and Agonizer
--4 Blasters
--2 Splinter Cannons
--Plasma Grenades
--Raider w/ Nightshields, Flickerfield

Trueborn
2 units, 4 models each
--3 blasters
--Splinter Cannon
--Venom w/ extra Splinter Cannon, Nightshields
--plasma grenades

Troops -- 1280
4 units of Warriors
10 models ea.
--Blaster
--Splinter Cannon
--Syrabite
--Raider w/ Nightshields, Flickerfield

2 units of Wyches
10 models ea.
--2 Hydra Gauntlets
--Hekatrix w/ Blast Pistol and Agonizer
--Raider w/ Nightshields, Flickerfield

Heavy Support -- 615
3 Void Raven Bombers
--Nightshields
--Flickerfield
--3x Necrotoxin Missiles
--Implosion Missile

3 Voidraven Bombers
--Nightshields
--Flickerfield
--3x Necrotoxin
--1x Shatterfield


2499 points total

7 dark Lances, 6 Void Lances, three Void Mines, 7 blaster weapons, multiple wound on X including 9 large blast pinning and 3 large blast reroll wounds.
Input, please!

[Billyjoeray]

It's an interesting list, but I think I would add some different stuff. I don't think that implosion missiles are really worth the points. The fact that it uses the small blast really robs it of its potential. Also, I think that the shardnet and impaler combo is better for wyches than the hydra gauntlet, because although the hydra gauntlet will give you more attacks, the net is better for keeping your Wyches alive.I would also trim off the blast pistol from the Hekatrix because it's more than likely that your Wyches will be fleeting rather than shooting a vehicle. Finally, the trueborn are cool, but I would make them two small squads of 4 with blasters in venoms armed with 2 splinter cannons. It will make it more kill points, but it will net you 4 more blasters and two splinter cannons than your configuration. Just my two cents.

[thecactusman17]

Aside from the potential to keep my wyches in combat for an additonal turn (which I find can be better managed in other ways, generally), how does the net/impaler work to improve my survivability in CC? I already have a 4+ invul save in close combat, it's not like I'm going to be at a disadvantage against power weapons and/or fists?

Blast pistols: If you have the extra points, ALWAYS give your CC units the ability to kill something they can't defeat in CC (unless their statline means they can't kill it in shooting either). Walkers will slaughter me or completely tie my units up, that round of shooting is going to be more useful than a haywire grenade only hitting on a 6+. At least now I have a solid opportunity to do damage (never mind simply opening up a can and going after the squishier gubbins inside). That course of action does have to be very carefully thought out.

But hell, it movement isn't your most important phase, then there simply isn't any part of this codex that will perform for you.

Small blast template. THAT was the reason I never took the Implosions before. Thanks for reminding me.

(yes, I know that's not a real tag).

Let's try these changes:

Trueborn
2 units, 4 models each
--3 blasters
--Splinter Cannon
--Venom w/ Splinter Cannon, Nightshields
--plasma grenades

Voidraven Bombers
--Nightshields
--Flickerfield
--3x Necrotoxin
--1x Shatterfield

[Billyjoeray]

Yeah, I thought implosion missiles were awesome too until I realized they were small blast : (. The nets provide you more survivability by allowing you to mitigate potentially 2 or if you are really lucky 3 attacks per net per turn by putting your wyches in Base to Base with as many enemy models as possible. Gauntlets are better against units that have a 1 attack statline, but for any unit with more than 1 attack every model you can touch with your net loses an attack which I think makes them waaaay better. The best way to ensure you make your IV save is to not have to take them at all. I've found that the more dice are involved the less reliable your units are (obviously) so the more you can control how many attacks will be coming your way and what kind (for example limiting a Lightning claw down to 1 or 2 attacks to reduce the ability for re-rolls to woundl) will help you prevent your wyches from being overwhelmed by a large volume of attacks. I can see the argument for hydra gauntlets, but as a matter of personal preference, I like Nets.

[thecactusman17]

The issue with them is that the second I start taking wounds, if those nets aren't in base to base with my powerfist or something equally valuable, I take the models that they were in base to base with. And it's very easy to put those models in the "2" bubble" of combat. So i guess that the problem I see is that if the gear requires a b2b contact with something that goes long after it, then there is no good reason to keep it around and the abilty is ultimately worthless.

[Commander Vimes]

I think the list badly wants a good counter assault unit to go with Vect. Wyches just don't cut it against the elite assault units in the game. Incubi are the best for this, but need a character with the grenade launcher so they don't get murdered charging cover. Bloodbrides would be a solid cheap option. They get the extra attack and the extra special weapon with a 9 girl squad. I think double hydra gauntlets and a shardnet to put on a nasty character that Vect will duel would be solid. Harlequins could be good, with the 5++ and Veil of Tears to minimize casualties when they inevitably end up in the open. They get as many attacks as the Bloodbrides and start with Furious Charge. Combined with WS5 they are still a brutal charge and Rending means they can Pen a Dreadnaught on the charge or glance if they get stuck in a worst case scenario. But they're expensive. Harli's are the better assault unit, and I think at 2500 you can afford the points, but Bloodbrides are worth considering if you can't find enough stuff to cut. I'd recommend replacing a Wych squad with one or the other and experimenting.

[somerandomdude]

Vect

Trueborn
2 units, 4 models each
--3 blasters
--Splinter Cannon
--Venom w/ extra Splinter Cannon, Nightshields
--plasma grenades

Troops -- 1280
4 units of Warriors
10 models ea.
--Blaster
--Splinter Cannon
--Syrabite
--Raider w/ Nightshields, Flickerfield

2 units of Wyches
10 models ea.
--2 Hydra Gauntlets
--Hekatrix w/ Blast Pistol and Agonizer
--Raider w/ Nightshields, Flickerfield

Heavy Support -- 615

3 Voidraven Bombers
--Nightshields
--Flickerfield
--3x Necrotoxin
--1x Shatterfield


2499 points total

7 dark Lances, 6 Void Lances, three Void Mines, 7 blaster weapons, multiple wound on X including 9 large blast pinning and 3 large blast reroll wounds.
Input, please!

Where is Vect supposed to go? He's a beast and able to put a lot of hurt onto people, but he needs a squad that can assault with him. He's not going to be able to survive a squad on his own (sooner or later you WILL lose that Shadowfield) despite the fact that he can beat one on his own. Drop a Wych from one unit, and as was suggested switch that unit over to a Shardnet. The goal of this particular Wych unit is to keep Vect alive. If a few of their swings get some kills, that's great, but they don't need to do anything really except tie up as many models as possible and put a Shardnet near Vect to protect him (This is the best way to utilize the Shardnet, by protecting characters).

At the same time, I feel like you should try to get another assault squad in the unit. I believe that Incubi work wonderfully with Wyches for taking out elite units. The trick is to assault with the Wyches and get into base contact with as many as possible, then have your Incubi assault and, according to the assault rules, they are allowed to more or less cluster around the same model, reducing the amount of attacks they attract. Let your Wyches take the hits, that's what they're there for! The Blaster Trueborn are fantastic elites, but the way you have it your second Wych squad isn't going to get a lot done unfortunately without some sort of hammer.

I also think you need to drop some of the upgrades you have, and include some Fast Attack. Why plasma grenades and a Splinter Cannon for the Trueborn? You get duality from the unit by getting the transport, and a sqaud that small should never be worried about assaulting into cover. Having two base attacks does not make them close combat proficient, especially with only S3 and no power weapons. Also, you're spending points on the Nightshields while kitting them out to be close range.

I'd also drop the Splinter Cannons on the Warrior squads. If you want to keep the Sybarites (for the pinning test they'll eventually face) then try to give them a Blast Pistol. One shot with a Darklight weapon is not that great, so try for that second shot if you can.

Also, if you want to truly be as effective as possible, then you should switch the gauntlets to Razorflails (IF you don't take Shardnets on all). They do better against Marines even with lots of Gauntlet attacks, and while the bad drug roll will hurt, the amount of extra pain versus your most common opponent in 'Ard Boyz will make up for that.

Void Ravens are fine, but I'd switch it to 2x Shatterfield and 2x Necrotoxin myself. You can fire one of each in two consecutive turns, giving you two chances to pin (per flyer) and still a lot of potential wounds.

Get Shock PRows/TGL on your Raiders. 'Ard Boyz has always been about controlling a ridiculous amount of objectives OR wiping your opponent off the table. Unfortunately, without switching to total MSU craziness, I don't think Dark Eldar can really hope to accomplish that last bit, and being T3/5+ with an AV10 transport doesn't help with the first bit. If you're able to get them off of that many more objectives though, then that' fantastic.

With all of the potential changes, I'd get as many Reavers with Heat Lances as possible.

[thecactusman17]

I like some of your ideas. The current build is 2499 because a lot of your suggestions add cost to the units, so far your build suggestion would probably be nearly 3000 points or more if the selections here were not almost eliminated (and that's including your substitutions/removals etc.). However, I will reexamine it and see what I can do.

Vect in the current list will probably stick with the Trueborn, and be dropped in next to the wych squad so they can assault together at full power. Incubi are great models of course, but my options are either dropping at least one trueborn squad or eliminating troops. I would be VERY hesitant to drop troops (especially wyches) in this case, because without grenades I have seen Incubi be very ineffective in assault.

[somerandomdude]

How about this?

Vect

3 Trueborn w/ 3 Blasters, Venom w/ Splinter Cannon and Nightshields
3 Trueborn w/ 3 Blasters, Venom w/ Splinter Cannon and Nightshields
5 Incubi, Venom w/ Splinter Cannon and Nightshields

9 Wyches w/ Shardnet. Raider with Flickerfield, Nightshields, Shock Prow, TGL
10 Wyches w/ 2 Gauntlets, Hekatrix with Agoniser, Raider with Flickerfield, Nightshields, Shock Prow, TGL
10 Warriors w/ Blaster, Raider with Flickerfield and Nightshields
10 Warriors w/ Blaster, Raider with Flickerfield and Nightshields
10 Warriors w/ Blaster, Raider with Flickerfield and Nightshields

6 Reavers w/ 2 Heat Lances

Voidraven w/ Flickerfield, Nightshields, 2 Necrotoxin Missiles, 2 Shatterfield Missiles
Voidraven w/ Flickerfield, Nightshields, 2 Necrotoxin Missiles, 2 Shatterfield Missiles
Voidraven w/ Flickerfield, Nightshields, 2 Necrotoxin Missiles, 2 Shatterfield Missiles

Personally, I'd rather see you go with 5 man Warriors in Venoms, but I wasn't sure what your conversion choices were like, and was already adding a Venom with the Incubi.

I also wouldn't take the Nightshields all over like that (110 points, 40 more and you can get another Reaver squad) but I get the feeling I'll never convince you to take a vehicle without them. The only vehicles I like them on anymore would be the Heavy Support choices.

Incubi only need plasma grenades when they are assaulting a unit in cover that you're not sending your Wyches into. Don't get in those situations and you won't have a problem. Would they be better with an Archon with PGL? Yes, but you don't have the points, so you just need to adjust your tactics a bit.

This gives you two frontal assaults (Vect's Wych Raider and the other Wyches + Incubi combo) to focus on threats to the rest of your army. It'll take some playtesting to get used to where everyone should go.

Reavers are very useful/darn near necessary due to the effective melta.

Personally I'd go with Razorwings instead of Voidravens just because of the extra points you can get for more Reavers (which have a better penetration change than Voidravens) but I know you like Voidravens so you can keep those.

[Caldera02]

Here's a list I whipped up looking ahead to 'Ard Boyz. I want the extra time because of two reasons: I want a fully painted army, and I really need time to pull together bits.

What's your verdict?

Units highlighted in RED are cancelled units from a previous update, to facilitate easier browsing.

Vect

Elites -- 356
8 Trueborn
--Dracon, w/ Blast Pistol and Agonizer
--4 Blasters
--2 Splinter Cannons
--Plasma Grenades
--Raider w/ Nightshields, Flickerfield

Trueborn
2 units, 4 models each -------Drop the splinter cannon in the squad and add another blaster
--3 blasters
--Splinter Cannon
--Venom w/ extra Splinter Cannon, Nightshields
--plasma grenades

Troops -- 1280
4 units of Warriors ------Solid, but drop the nightshields if you need to save points.
10 models ea.
--Blaster
--Splinter Cannon
--Syrabite
--Raider w/ Nightshields, Flickerfield

2 units of Wyches --------Drop the blast pistol and get haywire grenades on both wych squads. Trust me, I LOVE fighting dreadnaughts now...My wyches ALWAYS win against them now.
10 models ea.
--2 Hydra Gauntlets
--Hekatrix w/ Blast Pistol and Agonizer
--Raider w/ Nightshields, Flickerfield

Heavy Support -- 615
3 Void Raven Bombers
--Nightshields
--Flickerfield
--3x Necrotoxin Missiles
--Implosion Missile

3 Voidraven Bombers
--Nightshields
--Flickerfield
--3x Necrotoxin
--1x Shatterfield


2499 points total

7 dark Lances, 6 Void Lances, three Void Mines, 7 blaster weapons, multiple wound on X including 9 large blast pinning and 3 large blast reroll wounds.
Input, please!


Above comment about putting Vect with bloodbrides is solid, that's how I run him as well.

[thecactusman17]

Here's a list after considering a bunch of input and what I intend stuff to do.

Vect

Elites = 497
2x units Trueborn (3 models ea.)
--3 blasters
--Venom w/ Nightshields, Splinter Cannon

1 unit Incubi (4 models) (Vect goes here)
--Venom w/ Nightshields, Splinter Cannon

Troops = 1200
1 unit warriors (5 models)
--blaster
--Venom w/ Nightshields, Splinter Cannon

3 units Warriors (10 models)
--Syrabite
--Blaster
--Raider w/ Nightshields, Flickerfield

2 units Wyches
--1 shardnet + impaler combo
--Hekatrix w/ Agonizer
--Haywire grenades (all models)
--Raider w/ Flickerfield, Shockprow, Torment Grenade Launchers

Heavy Support - 585
1 unit Razorwing Jetfighter
--Splinter Cannon
--Nightshields
--Flickerfield

2 units Voidraven Bombers
--Necrotoxin (x3)
--Shatterfield (x1)
--Nightshields
--Flickerfield

2500 exact

This army still pumps out a LOT of anti-tank, but this should help up the amount of direct poison and some better close combat punch, especially against armor.

Gonna have to model up two additional Venoms, though. Ack....