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EmperorEternalXIX
08-29-2009, 03:26 AM
Simple question with a not so simple answer.

A unit of Terminators with an IC in power armor attached wins a combat. Obviously the terminators cannot attempt a sweeping advance, but what about the other model? How does this play into sweeping advance, if at all?

I am pretty sure they still can't do it, just because it seems like too easy a workaround, but I wanted to pose the question and see if anyone could come up with something more concrete.

Jwolf
08-29-2009, 06:41 AM
Actually it is pretty simple. The slowest model in the unit determines their ability to SA, which means the unit may not SA.

Old_Paladin
08-29-2009, 07:14 AM
I think Jwolf hit the nail on the head.
The IC is part of the unit (only treated seperately for the targeting phase of CC); and if the unit cannot, then the subparts of the unit cannot.

You might be able to work around this though. Put the whole unit in a landraider; when they disembark deploy the IC on one side and the termies on the other. As seperate units have them both engage a single unit for CC, when/if you win the melee, the IC can take a seperate Sweep (with a high Init as well).

EmperorEternalXIX
08-29-2009, 02:02 PM
I think Jwolf hit the nail on the head.
The IC is part of the unit (only treated seperately for the targeting phase of CC); and if the unit cannot, then the subparts of the unit cannot.

You might be able to work around this though. Put the whole unit in a landraider; when they disembark deploy the IC on one side and the termies on the other. As seperate units have them both engage a single unit for CC, when/if you win the melee, the IC can take a seperate Sweep (with a high Init as well). Does this mean that a unit of terminators and say, a unit of assault marines engaging the same target will be able to enact a sweep because of the assault marines?

Also it would be helpful if anyone could cite some page numbers so I can get a concrete answer.

Old_Paladin
08-29-2009, 02:57 PM
Page 41, the multiple combats rules.
Any of the winning units can make a sweeping advance against all the units that lost (with some extra stuff about whether they are locked in combat etc.).

So you can use the termies as a hammer to win combat, and run them down with a unit(s) that is actually allowed to.

Culven
08-29-2009, 04:00 PM
Does this mean that a unit of terminators and say, a unit of assault marines engaging the same target will be able to enact a sweep because of the assault marines?
Not quite. The Terminators are still disallowed to attempt a Sweeping Advance; however, any other unit on their side (provided those units have no prohibitions to doing so) may attempt a Sweeping Advance.

nojinx
08-31-2009, 09:05 AM
This is an interesting one.
Page 49 of the BRB: "When the attacks are resolved, however, independent characters are always treated as a separate, single-model unit...even though they have joined the unit."

Page 38 lists checking morale as part of determining assault results.

So - are attacks resolved before morale is checked, technically, or is checking morale a part of resolving attacks?

Culven
08-31-2009, 09:14 AM
Resolving attacks refers to rolling to Hit, to Wound, and Saves. Morale is part of resolving combat, by which point the IC is no longer considered separate from their Unit.

EmperorEternalXIX
08-31-2009, 03:45 PM
If ICs are always a separate unit does that mean they can sweep even with terminators??

Culven
08-31-2009, 03:57 PM
ICs aren't always a separate unit. They are simply treated as such when resolving attacks. After attacks are made, they will revert to being part of the unit they had previously joined.

EmperorEternalXIX
08-31-2009, 04:01 PM
Alright, makes sense...sorry misread the quote in the previous post.