Marneus Calgar IS the God of War???

[MarneusCalgar]

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?p=115843#post115843

What do you think about this, the new FAQs make him the best IC of the game??

[Zelron]

Dont know if he is the best, but it definitely improves his worth dramaticly. I have used him before with varied succes, mostly because of fluff reasons, but now he is actually beginning to be woth his points. In larger battles, that is...

[Tynskel]

no.

Calgar's awesome, but the Best Space Marine Character in the game is Dante, hands down. No other character has the flexibility of weapons, wargear, and rules.

Dante can blow up tanks, he can slaughter hordes. He will be exactly where you need him to be, and will arrive when you want him. He is a 'vehicle' for bringing in any Jump Infantry unit to a tactical and strategic position. He nerfs your opponent's HQ. He can nerf opponents in Close Combat. He is fast in speed and initiative. He can leave combat in such a fashion to reposition halfway across the board.

Dante is so effective, that in a 100,000 point game, he, with Sanguinary Guard, earned 1/3rd of our team's victory points, pushing us to the win.


I use both of these character regularly. I like them both. The God of War rules for Calgar do improve him quite a bit, but being able to rally +3" is nice, but may backfire. I have chased so many Space Marines off the board due to inability to rally. I do think with Calgar's improvement that you'll probably see more combos of Calgar + any Ultramarines character.

[Image]

no.

Calgar's awesome, but the Best Space Marine Character in the game is Dante, hands down. No other character has the flexibility of weapons, wargear, and rules.

Dante can blow up tanks, he can slaughter hordes. He will be exactly where you need him to be, and will arrive when you want him. He is a 'vehicle' for bringing in any Jump Infantry unit to a tactical and strategic position. He nerfs your opponent's HQ. He can nerf opponents in Close Combat. He is fast in speed and initiative. He can leave combat in such a fashion to reposition halfway across the board.

Dante is so effective, that in a 100,000 point game, he, with Sanguinary Guard, earned 1/3rd of our team's victory points, pushing us to the win.


I use both of these character regularly. I like them both. The God of War rules for Calgar do improve him quite a bit, but being able to rally +3" is nice, but may backfire. I have chased so many Space Marines off the board due to inability to rally. I do think with Calgar's improvement that you'll probably see more combos of Calgar + any Ultramarines character.

As long as Dante is kept away from Power Fists, Vindi shots, etc, you're right in that he is an excellent utility character. Calgar on the other hand has two power fists and can take both of them to the face while he continues fighting!

[Tynskel]

That's true, but I have almost never had to deal with a Powerfist with Dante, mostly due to the combat might that he and the squad he's apart of, can possess. Also, if you have corbs on the board, you can throw dante at fists, because he'll have that all important re-roll to invulnerable.

Now, I love Calgar fist-to-face method of fighting. He's really cool because he also has lightning Claws. His biggest problem, though, is that because he's infantry, once he's on the board, there's only some much area he can cover. You have to be really careful how you use Calgar--- he pretty much can only have 1 Primary goal and up to 2 secondary goals.

Dante, because of his speed, is one of few characters that can have multiple primary objectives and accomplish them.

[Angelofblades]

Calgar's GoW ability is still fail. The FAQ changed nothing about his ability, if he chooses to auto pass, he and anyone who uses his GoW to auto pass, still take No Retreat! wounds. In addition, the FAQ only states that Calgar and his unit do not become Fearless, not the rest of the army.

As far as best IC in the game, I'm pretty sure Logan takes the gold, followed closely by Abaddon, then I would go with Lysander over Calgar. Dante is very much low on the totem pole. Sanguinor is everything Dante should have been.

[Tynskel]

Calgar's GoW ability is still fail. The FAQ changed nothing about his ability, if he chooses to auto pass, he and anyone who uses his GoW to auto pass, still take No Retreat! wounds. In addition, the FAQ only states that Calgar and his unit do not become Fearless, not the rest of the army.

As far as best IC in the game, I'm pretty sure Logan takes the gold, followed closely by Abaddon, then I would go with Lysander over Calgar. Dante is very much low on the totem pole. Sanguinor is everything Dante should have been.

Both Logan, Sanguinor (not an IC, by the way), and Abaddon are individual powerhouses, but Dante's speed, weapon's, and tactical flexibility are much better. Logan is slow as crap, same for Lysander and Abaddon. They must be in a transport, yet, still cannot compare to the speed Dante can move in 2 player turns. (Dante can move 18"+3d6"+18" in 2 player turns, all while shooting and killing. Kahn is the only other commander with that speed, but he doesn't have nearly the special abilities).

In a 1 on 1 fight, yea, most will beat up Dante. But, that's not what we are talking about. We are talking about the best IC. Dante trounces the others due to the game changing abilities he has that both effect your own army and your opponent's. No deep strike scatter, the ability to kill tanks and troops, the ability to deliver a unit to the right spot, nerfin' an oppontent's HQ, nerfing opponents in CC, speed and flexibility, Dante is a immense boost to a Blood Angels army.

[Connjurus]

Both Logan, Sanguinor (not an IC, by the way), and Abaddon are individual powerhouses, but Dante's speed, weapon's, and tactical flexibility are much better. Logan is slow as crap, same for Lysander and Abaddon. They must be in a transport, yet, still cannot compare to the speed Dante can move in 2 player turns. (Dante can move 18"+3d6"+18" in 2 player turns, all while shooting and killing. Kahn is the only other commander with that speed, but he doesn't have nearly the special abilities).

In a 1 on 1 fight, yea, most will beat up Dante. But, that's not what we are talking about. We are talking about the best IC. Dante trounces the others due to the game changing abilities he has that both effect your own army and your opponent's. No deep strike scatter, the ability to kill tanks and troops, the ability to deliver a unit to the right spot, nerfin' an oppontent's HQ, nerfing opponents in CC, speed and flexibility, Dante is a immense boost to a Blood Angels army.

In a one-on-one fight, Abaddon will faceroll all over all the SCs that have been mentioned thus far. Hell, I've taken down the Nightbringer with him before.

Abaddon is the steamroller to end all steamrollers, and ends up being way better than the Nightbringer/Deceiver by dint of being able to attack him to squads to soak up shooting and put him in a transport.



I have never had Abaddon beaten in single-combat where both SCs started with full wounds.

[Angelofblades]

Both Logan, Sanguinor (not an IC, by the way), and Abaddon are individual powerhouses, but Dante's speed, weapon's, and tactical flexibility are much better. Logan is slow as crap, same for Lysander and Abaddon. They must be in a transport, yet, still cannot compare to the speed Dante can move in 2 player turns.

In a 1 on 1 fight, yea, most will beat up Dante. But, that's not what we are talking about. We are talking about the best IC. Dante trounces the others due to the game changing abilities he has that both effect your own army and your opponent's. No deep strike scatter, the ability to kill tanks and troops, the ability to deliver a unit to the right spot, nerfin' an oppontent's HQ, nerfing opponents in CC, speed and flexibility, Dante is a immense boost to a Blood Angels army.

I don't think Dante's abilities are enough honestly. Logan is not only a power house, but offers the +1A Aura, and pretty much every other useful universal special rule short of Furious Charge and Feel No Pain. I mean, Tank Hunter Long Fangs or Relentless Long Fangs, or Preferred Enemy units with +1A, then they have Counter Charge.

There are several issues with Dante, 1st, he's only S4, even though he can have about 6'ish attacks, he's only S4, then there's the issue of the DS, sure it's no scatter, but then you blow up 1 vehicle, then what? you're stuck there to get shot at and charged. Unfortunately Dante doesn't take a charge very well,plus he's not Eternal Warrior. You would think that the oldest living marine, would have Eternal Warrior...I mean Calgar has it why? Because he barely suvived a whuppin by the Swarmlod? I'm sure Dante's beating the Bloodthirster Skarbrand should have been enough to get him Eternal Warrior, don't you think?

Also, Dante's Mask, only works on IC's. Which is sort of great agaisnt armies that rely on a limited number of IC's like Chaos or Tau, but not so great on armies that have either too many IC's or none. Like Tyranids or IG that don't really need IC's to be effective, or SW's that have so many redundant IC's that it doesn't matter which one you curse.

[somerandomdude]

Calgar's GoW ability is still fail. The FAQ changed nothing about his ability, if he chooses to auto pass, he and anyone who uses his GoW to auto pass, still take No Retreat! wounds. In addition, the FAQ only states that Calgar and his unit do not become Fearless, not the rest of the army.

He automatically passes his tests? Really?

That's interesting. The codex I have says he can "choose to pass or fail". Is this a misprint? Or is it someone (actually, a bunch of people, it seems) reading an ability as though it includes a word that it most certainly doesn't?

Tell me, what does it mean to automatically pass a morale test? Does it mean that there is no chance, ever, that you can fail one? I'd say that's a safe definition.

Is there a possibility that Calgar could fail a morale test? Is there a possibility that anyone in Calgar's army could fail a morale test?

His ability simply takes the rolling out of morale tests. You can still pass or fail. The only difference is you get a choice. Any unit affected by No Retreat! didn't have a choice.

In all honesty, an FAQ ruling wasn't necessary to begin with. It's fairly clear in my opinion how the No Retreat! rule operates, and how Calgar's GoW ability relates to said rule (hint: it doesn't). Now I feel we need a clarification of the clarification, so we can put this mess behind us.

[Archon Charybdis]

Beyond "reflexively", automatic also means "occurring as a necessary consequence."

When using God of War, your desired option--whether pass or fail-- simply happens. It occurs as a necessary consequence of your choice; there is no other possibility. So yes, it is automatic.

[somerandomdude]

We're going to start quoting the dictionary over this? Really?

It was one thing when we were talking about lines...

My dictionary says "done unthinkingly."

And when there are two equally valid outcomes, I'm not sure how either can be construed as "necessary". It is necessary that one of them occurs, which means that "automatically" has to do with both results together (automatically [pass or fail]).

Having two possible results means that neither one is automatic.

[dannyat2460]

Theres no, no retreat wounds as they dont automaticaly pass they are not fearless an they are not marines that have failed there Ld and been run down, calgar allows you to choose to pass or fail you can not automaticaly pass if you have a chance of failing even if that chance is by your own choice.

In laymens terms calgar chooses if you have rolled a 1,1 or a 6,6 for your morale checks

[DarkLink]

There should be a correlated to Godwins law stating that in every rule argument, the probability of pointless reference to dictionary entries being mentioned approaches 1.