Where is the Imagination ?

[Dwarflord17404]

I read the article about legion specific crying and the like. So i decided to try to move the discusion over here. If you want to run "fluffy"" legions cause you miss your cheaty 4th edtion codex just use the IMeprial equalivent. The only one that struggles to convert is the Emperor's Children but then again their legion tactics our already well represented in the Chaos Dex.


Alpha Legion : Vannila marines using KOsa'ro Khan which makes all units have Out Flank
World Eaters: Blood Angels with special death company charcter so you could go heavy death co
T-SONs = Blood Angels =heavy librains or Space wolves for no charcter limits
Word Bearer's= Balck Templars Call the emperor's champion a Chaplin
IRon Warriors = Vannila marines with a Master Tech Marine or angels to run crazy landraiders
Death Guard= Blood angels tact squads , priests to make units fnp.
Night Lords= Dark angel Ravenwing Rules or blood angels for assault squad with jump packs troops


I think all the pieces are in place if you look hard enough in the Imperial Books. If you THink about Space Wolves chapter is pre-hersey so it is not a stretch to run any Chaos Legion with the rules presented.

[Grailkeeper]

Using space wolves to count as Thousand Sons?

Warhammer 40K Fluff
1987-2011.
RIP

[DrLove42]

I think you'll already find a lot of chaos players using the marines codexes, but for completly different reasons....

You have missed the point of the article completly though. To get your fluffy legion you shouldn't need to be using another armies codex. That'd be like me playing my Eldar as Tau "cos they fit the fluff better".

[Mike X]

Using space wolves to count as Thousand Sons?

Warhammer 40K Fluff
1987-2011.
RIP

Agreed. I'm pretty annoyed at the psychic powers Space Wolves get, yet are supposed to be as anti-psyker as Templars.


I think you'll already find a lot of chaos players using the marines codexes, but for completly different reasons....

You have missed the point of the article completly though. To get your fluffy legion you shouldn't need to be using another armies codex. That'd be like me playing my Eldar as Tau "cos they fit the fluff better".

I second that.

[Duke]

I'm all for seeing people do something like this, blood angel death company= world eaters... Sure. What gets me scratching my head though is when someone uses blood angels to be iron warriors Ummm ok.

Duke

[Crevab]

Since Mr. Ward decided that Blood Angels are the kings of Marine armor. I use'em for my Iron Hands

[Daemonette666]

I read the article about legion specific crying and the like. So i decided to try to move the discussion over here. If you want to run "fluffy"" legions cause you miss your cheaty 4th edition codex just use the Imperial equivalent. The only one that struggles to convert is the Emperor's Children but then again their legion tactics our already well represented in the Chaos Dex.


You definitely missed the point of the thread. The THIRD edition which was the previous edition of the Chaos Space Marine Codex, had rules which Space Marines in most of their current codexes can get. Either by adding a character to the army, or they get it automatically. In the 3rd edition, you could pay for tank hunters, skilled rider, true grit, and certain legion armies got abilities such as FNP for all the Death Guard, Night fighting for the Night Lords, Furious Charge and rage for the World Eaters. The codex was not cheasy, because it also limited what troop and support unit types you could get. If you followed a certain Chaos power you could not use some of the more potent unit types like bikers, raptors, havocs, etc.

What Chaos players want is to be able to theme their armies using another version of the current codex. I.E. Build a Khorne force, by dropping havocs and obliterators, limiting dreadnoughts to short range weapon options, using troops like CSM with furious charge, and only special weapons (no heavy weapons), and not including any psykers at all. Introducing a psychic save, and making terminators, and chosen more potent, by giving them some counter attack USR.

Slaanesh is the easiest to change, as they have already made the guidelines for this in an apocalypse datasheet. Every unit get the mark of Slaanesh free, and noise weapons cost 5 points for sonic blasters, make it 20 points for a blast master, and 15 points for a doom siren, Give the vehicles free or reduced cost for weapon changes.

Allow the legion based armies to take lesser Chaos Daemons specific to their chosen chaos power.

Sure you may think this is just a winge, or a I want, want, want thing that chaos players do, because we miss the old codex. Well it is simply a desire to get a codex out there for the Legions to represent their individual makeup, force composition, and fighting style. I personally like the mobile, assault fighting style of the Emperor's Children. Using vehicles to rush troops up, and as per the novels - drop pods, and gunships to drop troops in on objectives. Hit the enemy with sonic weapons, then assault and move onto the next target.

The space marines have their special codexes for the varied chapters who decide to not follow the Ultra Smurf's standardised rules. So if they can have separate codexes for the Black Templars, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Space Wolves why can't the chaos marines? We should not have to compromise.

[Spider-pope]

I read the article about legion specific crying and the like. So i decided to try to move the discusion over here. If you want to run "fluffy"" legions cause you miss your cheaty 4th edtion codex just use the IMeprial equalivent. The only one that struggles to convert is the Emperor's Children but then again their legion tactics our already well represented in the Chaos Dex.


Alpha Legion : Vannila marines using KOsa'ro Khan which makes all units have Out Flank
World Eaters: Blood Angels with special death company charcter so you could go heavy death co
T-SONs = Blood Angels =heavy librains or Space wolves for no charcter limits
Word Bearer's= Balck Templars Call the emperor's champion a Chaplin
IRon Warriors = Vannila marines with a Master Tech Marine or angels to run crazy landraiders
Death Guard= Blood angels tact squads , priests to make units fnp.
Night Lords= Dark angel Ravenwing Rules or blood angels for assault squad with jump packs troops


I think all the pieces are in place if you look hard enough in the Imperial Books. If you THink about Space Wolves chapter is pre-hersey so it is not a stretch to run any Chaos Legion with the rules presented.

Perhaps they can find solutions in other codexs, but the question is why should they have to? It's not too demanding to expect the codex of a players chosen army to be able to adequately represent said army, rather than forcing them to look elsewhere. And a lot of Chaos players would argue that the current codex doesnt allow them to do so.
Now don't get me wrong, i have no desire to return to Codex Iron Warriors, with its bias in favour of it's authors favourite legion. but i would like to see a less bland Chaos codex than the one we have now.

[Pendragon38]

Here...Here

[UltramarineFan]

I do believe the OP has missed the point slightly, as Spider-pope says we shouldn't NEED to use imperial codexes, not only are they in fact poor substitutes but they are, in fact, SUBSTITUTES for what we deserve to have as much as all the marine players. I hold no grudge to the many imperial codexes but the fact thet we need to use them to represent the Legions properly is just plain negligence on the behalf of Games Workshop.

One more thing, Thousand Sons should NEVER(!!!) use the Space Wolves codex, it's just wrong.

[Dwarflord17404]

I see. You would like a return to 4th edtion marine codex were in the back they had the traits and draw backs System. Heck some one may try to use that as a basis to fix the chaos codex. All I was saying was rather then lament over no codex just use a rules sytem that fits the fluff and police yourself on unit selction. I think they made the chaos codex bland on purpose as a way to overcompensate for the non-sense of an infantry sized model that counted as a monstrous creature and pie palte o' doom lists. I think the fact we have 5 unique marine codexs and special characters that change the force org chart in each lends one to believe that they wanted chaos legionere's to use the one that best fits.

[Pendragon38]

I do believe the OP has missed the point slightly, as Spider-pope says we shouldn't NEED to use imperial codexes, not only are they in fact poor substitutes but they are, in fact, SUBSTITUTES for what we deserve to have as much as all the marine players. I hold no grudge to the many imperial codexes but the fact thet we need to use them to represent the Legions properly is just plain negligence on the behalf of Games Workshop.

One more thing, Thousand Sons should NEVER(!!!) use the Space Wolves codex, it's just wrong.

I agree, loved the 1,2,3 Ed More just more stuff and fluff to work with:cool:

[Lockark]

I see. You would like a return to 4th edtion marine codex were in the back they had the traits and draw backs System. Heck some one may try to use that as a basis to fix the chaos codex. All I was saying was rather then lament over no codex just use a rules sytem that fits the fluff and police yourself on unit selction. I think they made the chaos codex bland on purpose as a way to overcompensate for the non-sense of an infantry sized model that counted as a monstrous creature and pie palte o' doom lists. I think the fact we have 5 unique marine codexs and special characters that change the force org chart in each lends one to believe that they wanted chaos legionere's to use the one that best fits.

I personaly think it was GW experimenting for how CSM could get specail charaters that give us the legion rules back.


That and it sucks that us Chaos players ended up with a bunch of models that no longer had rules do to the update. I'd like to see thows lost units come back.

[DarkLink]

I think the Chapter Tactics rule would have made it easily possible to consolidate all the Marine codices (except Grey Knights) into one book, had they chose to go that route. The same basic system could be used to create a Chaos codex.

Give all CSMs a "Mark of Chaos" rule (or whatever you want to call it). There would be a generic Black Legion rule, allowing you to take most units in the codex.

To represent the Legions, exchange the Mark of Chaos rule for the appropriate legion rule. It doesn't even have to be special character driven. Each special rule has certain advantages and disadvantages, and allows certain specialized units.

[murrburger]

A note on the 3.5 codex...

It was, along with Craftworld Eldar, one of the most despised books of late 3rd/early 4th. I know all you Chaos players loved it, but people like me thought it was a disorganised mess that was clearly just Space Marines, but better.

Right now, it's bland. Being one of the books that followed Codex:Dark Angels while GW was in its 'JJ Simplification' phase. I'd like to see it brought in line with he other Space Marine books, but honestly, there are other books that need updates more. (CoughcoughDarkAngelsplayer)

And on the subject of originality, I'm going to paraphrase the author of the current Chaos Codex. He thinks that it's actually more creative to use the basic army list to represent let's say, the World Eaters legion, than it is to follow a list in the back of the book.

What's stopping you from saying 'Oh, this is my Night Lords army, I maxed out on Fast Attack and didn't take any heavy armour' as opposed to 'It's not Night Lords unless I get four Fast Attack and One Heavy Support'? Sure, you miss out on some things like Rubric Terminators, but can't you just say, that because 1KSons are so rare, that they're on loan from another band of traitors, or that they're Sorcerors without any ingame powers?

Really, where is the imagination? I'd rather make a themed list within the boundaries of my interpretation of the fluff than within the boundaries of a disorganised back of the book list.

[Bean]

A note on the 3.5 codex...
etc...


Exactly.