IG Vets

[Schnitzel]

I'm slowly easing myself into a IG list and at the moment am working on my first squad of Vetrans.
Currently I've got the following:

GySgt Harker (Not Sgt, freaking GySgt)
Flamer
Flamer
Flamer
Demo Man
Shotguns

I decided to focus on anti-infantry rather than anti-vehicle. I figure if I'm gonna try to kill a tank, and if these guys are still alive to do so, I'll use their melta bombs from the Demo doctrine.

I'll probably melta out the rest of my squads as I build them over time.

C/C?

[j-orge-287]

If you have demolitions and Harker then the 3 flamers aren't worth as much. You can infiltrate right behind any vehicle and destroy it. Take a meltagun,flamer and a grenade launcher that makes the squad incredibly versatile. I seriously recommend it because I use it and it is awesomely effective (but I don't use Harker).

[Schnitzel]

Ah, that'd be reasonable.

What I figure was that because the Heavy Bolter is an anti-infantry weapon I should stick to flamers.
Infiltrate behind a nice mob of guys, fry 'em fairly well then assault the remains and hope I don't kill them to the man.

[Lord Inquisitor]

That is what I was thinking of doing with my next vet squad.

[Chumbalaya]

If you bring Harker, I'd just use them as an objective camping unit. 3 grenade launchers (cheap, move and fire), an autocannon (complements the HB, cheap), and the man himself. Fairly cheap, infiltrate and stealth so you can place them where you want to claim an objective, and a good amount of firepower.

Otherwise, 3 meltas in a Chimera is a solid pick. Fast, protected by the tank, meltas to pop armor, heavy flamer to roast infantry, and a multi-laser to get some shots in at range.

[RocketRollRebel]

It doesnt sound like a bad idea to me. I tend to leave anti infantry up to my tanks tho and give all of my vets melta guns. Infact I used harker with 3 meltas and demolitions in the last tourny I played and they seemed to do pretty well at getting their points back although I'll admit that harker was really just being used as an outflank delivery system which probably isnt his most effective role but I didnt mind.

[Glocknal]

Yeah three melta vets is the best 100 point unit in the game. Hardly a new revelation. I'd leave the flamers to your PCS, BS 4 is wasted with flamers.

[TheKingElessar]

Yeah three melta vets is the best 100 point unit in the game. Hardly a new revelation. I'd leave the flamers to your PCS, BS 4 is wasted with flamers.

While this is very true, adding a Heavy Flamer over the 3rd Melta gives greater flexibilty.

[RogueMarine]

i agree that BS 4 is wasted on flamers...you should definatley look into using the meltas with that unit...

[ColCorbane]

As a dedicated anti-infantry role, I think it's a good setup, although I'd probably add the heavy flamer. I wouldn't discount flamers from anti-armour, I've blown up a few tanks to the surprise of my opponents with flamers.

[TheKingElessar]

I hope they were Heavy ones...it's next to impossible to blow a vehicle up with a regular Flamer...

[RocketRollRebel]

While this is very true, adding a Heavy Flamer over the 3rd Melta gives greater flexibilty.

I find that multi tasking units like veterans tends to kinda make them not that great at anything in the end. I think that imperial guard has better crowd control units available to them in the form of out heavy support and fast attack units. Veterans I think do the best when kitted out for big game hunting (ie:MC's and Tanks).

[Kungfuhustler]

Personally I like equipping harkers squad with 3 sniper rifles and an autocannon -or- heavy bolter. These guys will infiltrate to a nice safe place and harass the enemy with pinning checks whilst throwing out lots of high str dakka. I should also mention that I use psyker battle squads as it is relevant to my application of this squad.

[Twilit]

If you're using Harker, you really want to make use of the Relentless rule he gets and the fact that his HB is at a longer range. A squad with grenade launchers and him puts out hurt at a max range of 24' and can stay away from mostly anything that wants to assault them. I like sticking them in a Chimera as well for extra protection and zoomzoom.

[RocketRollRebel]

That would make quite the dakka chimera but in the end all you are getting is an expensive heavy bolter. Mounting harkers squad in a chimera takes away just about all of the bonuses that he gives your vets

[Desaster]

Yepp, in a chimera he's only a very expensive way to get another hbolter. I thought about a veteran squad with Harker, 3 Grenade Launchers and a hbolter in a hbolter/hbolter Chimera, too, but it's just not worth the points.

Maybe a squad with Harker, demolitions, 2 melta guns and a hflamer would be something able to threat any kind of enemy, but still, I think it's to expensive.

All in all, I don't think Harker is worth his points, except you want to play fluffy Catachans.

I usually play multiple triple-melta veteran squads with demolitions in VTOLs plus a grenadier squad with grenade launchers and Autocannon to sit on my objective. Nothing new or original, but effective as hell.

[dmlachap]

My friend always liked to use an expensive squad of veterans against my marines... a squad with 3 plasma guns. While not necessarily cost effective, I would have to bring my troops withing their range to get a chance of hitting them. They packed a punch, but were on the top of the hit list.

[Kungfuhustler]

While this is very true, adding a Heavy Flamer over the 3rd Melta gives greater flexibilty.


My friend always liked to use an expensive squad of veterans against my marines... a squad with 3 plasma guns. While not necessarily cost effective, I would have to bring my troops withing their range to get a chance of hitting them. They packed a punch, but were on the top of the hit list.

I ran harker 3x plasma/Demolition vets in a team tourney a while ago and they killed virtually everything they looked at all tourney long. There was an incident where they got charged however...

[RogueGarou]

In reference to the first post, and this is my personal taste, flamers do not go in veteran squads. Heavy flamers, oh, most certainly. Flamers are not reliant on the improved Ballistic Skill of the veterans and I think they are better used in a support squad or with normal troopers. Grenade launchers have been a favorite of mine since back in the day when you could load them with different rounds: hallucinogen, incendiary, frag, krak, anti-plant, and scare gas come to mind. Since they are going to scatter with frag rounds, I like them on rank and file types. Melta and plasma weapons are what I like my more elite units to pack into the field. Direct fire weapons for direct fire troopers.

I used to dislike the 4th and 5th Ed shotguns but they are growing on me lately. My big problem with taking them is that I have only a handful of Cadians with shotties, the old Lieutenant models. I have had some luck using a squad with a heavy flamer, Harker, a couple of melta or plasma rifles, a demo charge, and then a bunch of shotguns. They are almost a suicide squad but they have put a dent into anything I have pointed them at. I have even been lucky enough to get off a couple of successful charges with them after blasting a squad to kibbles n' bits.

I do not tend to put heavy weapons in my vet squads. I have been using them as a mobile force and not a static fire element. I could see using them as a static unit but if I did that, I would not equip them with demo charges or shotguns. The reason being the additional range and shots at range as well as the additional shots from First Rank, Second Rank. I might not even give them special weapons but I think Harker is still a good choice because of range, higher strength weapon, rate of fire, and an OK AP value.

I don't have any Valkyries/Vultures/Vendettas yet so I have not used them and can not comment with any real experience. I have also not put my vets into a chimera but I think it could serve to give them some extra protection. The downside is that if you move the transport, your heavies will be unable to fire and your rapid fire weapons will be stuck at 12" range. Harker, meltas, shotguns, and grenade launchers will be able to fire at full range. If they are sitting still, they are marginally better protected rules-wise (all but invulnerable fluff-wise) but the extra protection is debatable since a good boltgun will punch fist-sized holes in both the Chimera and the troopers huddling inside. If they are digging into a hillside or building or weaving and out of cover I think they would be better protected than inside a leather personnel carrier masquerading as an infantry fighting vehicle. Actually, I plan on my Chimeras doing one of two things: 1) being destroyed very early because they pose a perceived threat to my opponent; or 2) surviving the entire game, or at least until they have done their job, because they were not perceived as a viable threat. I typically take a stock Chimera because as soon as someone sees an autocannon, twin-linked heavy bolters, or a heavy flamer they seem to become bullet magnets. If the Chimera rolls around and takes the occasional multi-laser shot, it doesn't look too scary. I imagine as soon as three plasma guns, an assault heavy bolter, and/or a demolition charge come ripping out of the top hatch, that Chimera will become Public Enemy Number One to anything near it. If the guys in back don't start a ruckus, they just might be inconspicuous enough to not draw fire while the big, mean Leman Russ over there attracts everyones attention. Maybe.

[Twilit]

Yepp, in a chimera he's only a very expensive way to get another hbolter. I thought about a veteran squad with Harker, 3 Grenade Launchers and a hbolter in a hbolter/hbolter Chimera, too, but it's just not worth the points.

Maybe a squad with Harker, demolitions, 2 melta guns and a hflamer would be something able to threat any kind of enemy, but still, I think it's to expensive.

All in all, I don't think Harker is worth his points, except you want to play fluffy Catachans.

I usually play multiple triple-melta veteran squads with demolitions in VTOLs plus a grenadier squad with grenade launchers and Autocannon to sit on my objective. Nothing new or original, but effective as hell.

Really? I think at 55 points he's a steal. He gives the squad 3 USRs, which is worth about 45 points right there. 5 for the heavy bolter without even taking into account Relentless, and then he's got FNP to soak some low-strength shots.

I mean, I still think Bastonne is a better buy for Vets because of his mad AT potential, but I run Devil Dogs for AT, so Harker is a nice anti-infantry upgrade.

[Spiff]

I'm slowly easing myself into a IG list and at the moment am working on my first squad of Vetrans.
Currently I've got the following:

GySgt Harker (Not Sgt, freaking GySgt)
Flamer
Flamer
Flamer
Demo Man
Shotguns

I decided to focus on anti-infantry rather than anti-vehicle. I figure if I'm gonna try to kill a tank, and if these guys are still alive to do so, I'll use their melta bombs from the Demo doctrine.

I'll probably melta out the rest of my squads as I build them over time.

C/C?

Why waste a relatively good BS on flamers? Dedicate a Platoon Command Squad to flamer duty if you want to torch stuff.

Otherwise, it depends on what you're mounted them in, how you're deploying them, and what army you're fighting.

Harker would be good with a Vet squad that has special weapons as opposed to heavy weapons since they could all move and shoot. With Harker in the mix, I think I'd be fielding Grenade launchers against non-MEQ and Plasma for MEQ armies (assuming you're going to use them against infantry).
I don't think opponent's coversaves should be as much of a concern if you have them mounted in a chimera or valk/ven since you will likely have a good mobility to get into a good position before firing.

[Aceshigh]

yea IG Vets are disgusting i think one of the best units in the IG army IMO

[Schnitzel]

The more I think about it, the flamers really aren't gonna work... Bah. :mad:
I just dread doing the 3x melta build every one seems to be raving about. I want to try to figure some other cost effective tactic to build my army around rather than melta spam.
Plasma does seem rather tempting though.... Hmmm...

[RocketRollRebel]

The more I think about it, the flamers really aren't gonna work... Bah. :mad:
I just dread doing the 3x melta build every one seems to be raving about. I want to try to figure some other cost effective tactic to build my army around rather than melta spam.
Plasma does seem rather tempting though.... Hmmm...

I've wholeheartedly embraced the melta vet/chimera spam with the new book. Its too awesome to turn down! Although Plasma guns arnt a bad choice for these guys thanks to their BS4. Due to the high cost of plasma in the new codex I only trust it to my BS4 guardsmen. Leave Flamers and Grenade Launchers to the BS3 Grunts.

Grenade Launchers on vets or HQ command squads can be cheap and fairly points effective way at taking down MC's that don't have a 2+ save tho. Not quite as effective as plasma but a heck of a lot cheaper.

[mono]

GySgt Harker (Not Sgt, freaking GySgt)


HooAH!

As regards the squad, flamers seem like a no-no (you've already reached this conclusion) for all the stated reasons: flamers fail to take advantage of the BS of the squad. :rolleyes:
I do agree with RogueGarou that shotguns might also be a good way to go with those troopers not armed with basic weapons; but unless you're willing to cull them out of scout hands (and shaving off that plastic's a real pain in the arse...), then it might be prohibitive. :mad:
I wouldn't necessarily give them lasguns...it's really down to choice, but here's what I'd do: if you're going to give them melta special weapons, then arm the troops with shotguns. If plasma guns for specials, then lasguns for grunts. Stack Assault weapons with Assault weapons; and Rapid Fire weapons with Rapid Fire weapons. If you combine the two, you'll be taking the charge all the time...and yes, given the way the game plays now, I assume that assaults will happen. Having Assault weapons as your squad specials and longarms gives you the ability to launch assaults and keep up the fire...though it is pretty bad misappropriation of a meltagun... :o

[Schnitzel]

HooAH!

As regards the squad, flamers seem like a no-no (you've already reached this conclusion) for all the stated reasons: flamers fail to take advantage of the BS of the squad. :rolleyes:
I do agree with RogueGarou that shotguns might also be a good way to go with those troopers not armed with basic weapons; but unless you're willing to cull them out of scout hands (and shaving off that plastic's a real pain in the arse...), then it might be prohibitive. :mad:
I wouldn't necessarily give them lasguns...it's really down to choice, but here's what I'd do: if you're going to give them melta special weapons, then arm the troops with shotguns. If plasma guns for specials, then lasguns for grunts. Stack Assault weapons with Assault weapons; and Rapid Fire weapons with Rapid Fire weapons. If you combine the two, you'll be taking the charge all the time...and yes, given the way the game plays now, I assume that assaults will happen. Having Assault weapons as your squad specials and longarms gives you the ability to launch assaults and keep up the fire...though it is pretty bad misappropriation of a meltagun... :o

Hooah? Choking on something? OohRah! :p

Converting shotties is a bit of a pain, but its not thaaat bad. Check out my Afriel Strain thread, thats how my Vet Squad is currently looking.
Just got in more scouts and Catachans today. Time to finish my squad. Three melta gunners coming up!

[Aldramelech]

Americans.........:rolleyes:

[slobulous]

My ideal setup would be like this:

Harker
3x Grenade Launchers
Autocannon Team
Forward Sentries

180 points for an infiltrating unit with a 2+ cover save and great firepower! They can shoot up infantry and light vehicles with ease and can be a real pain to get rid of with Stealth and Camo Cloaks working together. Huge annoyance for a reasonable price IMO.

[twomas_rox]

I am liking this thread. I have an issue where I own one chimera and plan on using it for Commissar Yarrick and a retinue of 5 GK's. SO now i have my vets.. which used to ride in it with their meltas. After reading this thread.. i am thinking of using the vets x 3 Plasmas and Harker.

I am hoping this will help them with their lack of mobility... not sure if i want to outflank them or just infiltrate them...

i guess i need to play test them and see where it goes.

[Dingareth]

My ideal setup would be like this:

Harker
3x Grenade Launchers
Autocannon Team
Forward Sentries

180 points for an infiltrating unit with a 2+ cover save and great firepower! They can shoot up infantry and light vehicles with ease and can be a real pain to get rid of with Stealth and Camo Cloaks working together. Huge annoyance for a reasonable price IMO.

Not going to work. Stealth and Camo-Cloaks don't stack, because Camo Cloaks give Stealth. You're paying twice for the same ability.

[Lord Azaghul]

In my standard all comers I field my vets with 2 meltas and a flamer in a chimera...and I ususally place them in reserve since they can kill most anything, and the chimera lets them to grab objectives if the platoon hasn't taken them yet.