Power Weapons

[Baka]

Do all power weapons go last? I was pwned if a power sword goes in initiative. Calgar was attacking a Furioso dread and was told by my opponent that all power weapons go at initiative 1 and his force weapon would go first? I did not think this was correct. Please help!

[Tynskel]

Read the rulebook.

[dethangel]

power weapons attack with the models inicitive and strenght values with no armor save. powerfist is the exception with a s10 and always an I1 with no armor save..

[Baka]

thanks any other advice you might have? Is it only power fists and claws that go in initiative of 1? They are all power weapons right.

[Daemonette666]

power weapons attack with the models inicitive and strenght values with no armor save. powerfist is the exception with a s10 and always an I1 with no armor save..
Power Fists are double the models strength not Str 10. The same goes for Thunder Hammers, and they are at iniitative 1. Thunder hammers also can get the additional weapon rule if paired with a storm shield or another Thunder Hammer, and force the vehicle Titan to be initiative 1 in the next round even if they do not glance or penetrate.

Power weapons are at the models strength and initiative as are force weapons. Only special weapons like the Grey Knights force halberds, and other special weapons that specifically state what the differences are alter the strength or initiative of the bearer.

It is all in the rule book, and in the individual codexes. Also check out the GW website for the 5th editoin rules - eratta and FAQ. This explains a lot of questions you will be asking.

[Daemonette666]

thanks any other advice you might have? Is it only power fists and claws that go in initiative of 1? They are all power weapons right.
Lightning Claws are a power weapon that is at the models initiative, and has re-rolls to wound. you can only get an additonal attack if you use them in pairs.

So a power weapon and a lightning Claw will not give you any bonus for being paired up. You use one or the other.

[Gir]

Thunder hammers also can get the additional weapon rule if paired with a storm shield or another Thunder Hammer

Wrong. If you have a Storm Shield you NEVER get the benefit of 2 close combat weapons. Rule book also states that you MUST have 2 power fists, thunder hammers or lightning claws to get hte +1 attack.

[UltramarineFan]

basically do what Tynskel said and read the rulebook, if a weapon goes at a different intiative to the model then it will say so in the rules. So for example power fists and thunder hammers go at initiative 1 because it says so in their rules, this is not said for normal power weapons so they go at the model's normal initiative.

[justsam]

Thunder hammers also can get the additional weapon rule if paired with a storm shield or another Thunder Hammer, and force the vehicle Titan to be initiative 1 in the next round even if they do not glance or penetrate.

i was under the impression that the hammer actually had to do some kind of damage, and that the crew would be shaken in addition to whatever else you rolled

[addamsfamily36]

Gets out rulebook:

Thunder hammers : Thunder hammers release a tremendous blast of energy when they strike. A thunder hammer uses the same rule as a powerfist. In addition, all models that suffer an unsaved wound from a thunder hammer and are not killed will be knocked reeling, reducing their initiative to a value of 1 until the end of the next players turn. Against vehicles with no initiative value, whenever a thunder hammer inflicts any damage result, it also inflicts a crew shaken result.

so they strike like powerfists, so at initiative 1 double strength etc.

if a models suffer a wound and is not dead as a result, they strike at initiative 1 in the next combat phase.

against vehicles without an initiative you cause crew shaken result alongside any other damage result.

Against dreads, they are both a vehicle and have initiative. I would say you use the initiative rule but only cause the reduction if you caused a damage result. (If this is incorrect i apologise, interestingly this hasn;t happened to me before, even though i run a dread in every game i play with my marines.)


Power fists:

strike at initiative 1

double your basic strength

Lightning claws:

many blades attatched to a fist-like hand (but do not count as powerfists)

strike on initiative

is a power weapon

allows wielder to re-roll failed to wound rolls.

Power weapon

strikes at initiative

ignores armour saves.



Weapons armed on a dreadnought also strike at initiative regardless. This is on page 73. A close combat weapon like a blood fist or combat arm etc etc doubles the dreads strength to 10, but does not drop your initiative like a normal power fist.


In regards to the original OP, you mentioned Calgar. Is he not armed with twin Powerfists? unless he has a rule that ignores the normal initiative reduction, then yes your opponent is correct calgar strikes at initiative 1.

[Tynskel]

I repeat, this is not unclear.

Read the Rulebook.

[addamsfamily36]

I repeat, this is not unclear.

Read the Rulebook.

depends how new the OP is to the game ( and age etc) , but yeh reading the rulebook is genuinely the best advice.

[dethangel]

Power Fists are double the models strength not Str 10. The same goes for Thunder Hammers, and they are at iniitative 1. Thunder hammers also can get the additional weapon rule if paired with a storm shield or another Thunder Hammer, and force the vehicle Titan to be initiative 1 in the next round even if they do not glance or penetrate.

Power weapons are at the models strength and initiative as are force weapons. Only special weapons like the Grey Knights force halberds, and other special weapons that specifically state what the differences are alter the strength or initiative of the bearer.

It is all in the rule book, and in the individual codexes. Also check out the GW website for the 5th editoin rules - eratta and FAQ. This explains a lot of questions you will be asking.

****DISREGARD*** i should keep readin before postin. sorry

nice catch on the powerfist. i never use them and confused the fist strength and that of the thunderhammer. :confused::) my bad...
but... my turn. the storm shield offers only a 3+ invul save but it is not a cc weapon so no extra attack.
oh and if you have a powersword and lightning they are both cc weapons so you do get the extra attack.
:rolleyes:

[Gir]

oh and if you have a powersword and lightning they are both cc weapons so you do get the extra attack.
:rolleyes:

This is wrong for 2 reasons:

1. Rule book states you must have 2 lighting claws to get the bonus attack.

2. They are both complex weapons, so you can only ever use one in combat (but you get to choose).

[Archon Charybdis]

i never use them and confused the fist strength and that of the thunderhammer.

Thunderhammers aren't (necessarily) S10 either. They follow the rules for power fists, i.e. they double the wielders S and strike at I1. The only TH I can think of that's S10 is Lysander's, and that's a special rule on his part. As has been mentioned, the only difference between a fist and a hammer is that hammers cause anyone struck by them to strike at I1 in subsequent turns, and also stuns vehiclesl in addition to any other damage.

[Baka]

I repeat, this is not unclear.

Read the Rulebook.

Ok, I have read it. I am getting pwned by a person who has no job lives at home and plays every day. he says hes played since second ed and is 32 years old. The rules im trying to clarify are being spewed from others. Also there is only 6 people in my area that play 40k.
BUT thank you all for the help.
This also clarified a Sergent with only one lightning claw does not benefit from it.

[steelmage99]

Ok, I have read it. I am getting pwned by a person who has no job lives at home and plays every day. he says hes played since second ed and is 32 years old. The rules im trying to clarify are being spewed from others. Also there is only 6 people in my area that play 40k.
BUT thank you all for the help.
This also clarified a Sergent with only one lightning claw does not benefit from it.

Hold on, friend. No need to insult the person even if he is not here. His living habits have zero relevance when it comes to the rules of 40K.

Thunder Hammers, Power Fists, Lightning Claws and Power Weapons are ALL Power Weapons. Some of them just have some additional rules and limitations. The use of a Storm Shield also has special rules that affect the others. These can all be found in the rule book (apart from the Storm Shield which is in the relevant codex).

Whenever you are told a rule that you either don't know or find strange, kindly ask for your opponent to show you the rule in question. Anybody playing should always bring his own codex and the rulebook. If they don't, ask them if they would be kind enough to please bring it another time, as it would be very helpful to you in remembering the rules. See? Politeness usually works.


As for the Sergeant-bit I have to say that you are wrong. A Sergeant armed with a single Lightning Claw most certainly benefits from it.

He gains the following:

1. A Power Weapon effect (ie no armour save allowed by the opponent, Invulnerable Saves still apply).

2. The ability to reroll his to-wound rolls in close combat (a special Lightning Claw effect).

What he doesn't get is an additional close combat attack from being armed with two close combat weapons, unless the second close combat weapon is another Lightning Claw (which it isn't in this case).

[Yriel_The_Angelic]

I'll guess i'll be the troll and say it......FAIL!!! Read the rule-book man, it's very clear....In fact out of all the unclear rules you choose to ask questions bout the most clear one.....weird.....i'ma go cartwheel over yonder now...

[dannyat2460]

I'll guess i'll be the troll and say it......FAIL!!! Read the rule-book man, it's very clear....In fact out of all the unclear rules you choose to ask questions bout the most clear one.....weird.....i'ma go cartwheel over yonder now...

woooooo goooooo Yriel its your bday go cartwheel like its your bday

Must agree tho i dont think that the special weapons section needs any further clarification at all

[addamsfamily36]

As has been mentioned, the only difference between a fist and a hammer is that hammers cause anyone struck by them to strike at I1 in subsequent turns, and also stuns vehiclesl in addition to any other damage.

Only if they make an unsaved wound. so if a character passes his invulnerable save then he is not affected by the initiative reduction.

so you can be hit/struck by a thunderhammer, but if you pass your save, your fine:D