2k space marine army for comp. play

[dethangel]

here is a list ive been working on for turnament play.
HQ: Pedro Kantor 175

elite: 10 sternguard squad w/ 10 combi-meltas 300
10 sternguard squad w/ 10 combi-meltas 300

Troop: 10 tac squad w/ flamer and heavy bolter and melta bombs 175
10 tac squad w/ flamer and multi-melta 170

fast: 10 assault squad w/ pw and melta bomb 200
10 assault squad w/ pw and melta bomb 200

heavy: land raider w/ brother sgt. chronus and stormbolter 320
5 dev squad w/ 2 hvy bolters and 2 multi-meltas 150
150 leftover...
how will this list fair in a turni?

[Legoklods]

I dont understand this list...

first, whats in the land raider?
second, with Pedro in the army sternguards become troops - not elite... and giving the all combi meltas maybe a bit... "extreme". a friend of mine usually fields a unit of 10 - 5 w. combi-flamers, 5 with combi-meltas. He then deep strike them in a drop pod, and then split them in two squads, one opening a transport, the other take care of whatever is inside it. I sugest you do the same.

Oh and your tac squads need rides...:cool:

[dethangel]

I dont understand this list...

first, whats in the land raider?
second, with Pedro in the army sternguards become troops - not elite... and giving the all combi meltas maybe a bit... "extreme". a friend of mine usually fields a unit of 10 - 5 w. combi-flamers, 5 with combi-meltas. He then deep strike them in a drop pod, and then split them in two squads, one opening a transport, the other take care of whatever is inside it. I sugest you do the same.

Oh and your tac squads need rides...:cool:

the land raider has a bs5 and ignores crew stunned and shaken hits. whats wrong w/ a LR w/ BS5?
sternguards become scoring units able to HOLD THE LINE not a troop choise. not to mention with alittle luck10 meltas can take out a titan
the tacs can run and soke up attacks
this is what i was thinking thank for the input.

[Splug]

Land raiders as a shooting platform are extremely inefficient. For that land raider (which is actually 330 points, not 480) you could almost buy three autocannon / 2x lascannon predators (120 x3 = 360). That's six S9 shots and six S7 shots at BS4 - you're expecting twice as many lascannon hits as the land raider gets shots, with the autocannons just tossed in as a freebie. This is why land raiders are typically used as a delivery system for terminators.

Footslogging sternguard are unlikely to make it within 6" range of a vehicle that doesn't come to them. And if it's coming to them, you probably are going to be unhappy for a different reason. The special issue bolters, by contrast, can be very effective on foot. Taking 10 shots at 24" range is quite nice.

The biggest weaknesses this list suffers from are a lack of mobility, and a shortage of anti-tank - especially at long range. Combined, these will give your opponent a strong mobility advantage, which leaves you very vulnerable to last-turn objective dives, long range shooting, and fast-moving assaulters (dark eldar, tyranids). Additionally, spammed light-mech will be hard to bring down before running out of single-shot meltaguns. Finally, having no transports and no librarian leaves your entire army vulnerable to psychic abilities. Doom, Fear of the Darkness, and Weaken Resolve come to mind as potential ways to lose a full 10-man squad very quickly. IG, Tau, mechanized Eldar, and mechanized marine armies will all prove difficult matchups.

The greatest advantages are the high number of scoring units, low number of kill points, and relatively high durability of each squad. This is a very defensive army, giving little in the way of low-hanging fruit for kill points and posing a surprising resilience in combat for anyone not familiar with Pedro's inspiring presence. Horde Orks in particular will have a very difficult time with this army layout.

[dethangel]

Land raiders as a shooting platform are extremely inefficient. For that land raider (which is actually 330 points, not 480) you could almost buy three autocannon / 2x lascannon predators (120 x3 = 360). That's six S9 shots and six S7 shots at BS4 - you're expecting twice as many lascannon hits as the land raider gets shots, with the autocannons just tossed in as a freebie. This is why land raiders are typically used as a delivery system for terminators.

Footslogging sternguard are unlikely to make it within 6" range of a vehicle that doesn't come to them. And if it's coming to them, you probably are going to be unhappy for a different reason. The special issue bolters, by contrast, can be very effective on foot. Taking 10 shots at 24" range is quite nice.

The biggest weaknesses this list suffers from are a lack of mobility, and a shortage of anti-tank - especially at long range. Combined, these will give your opponent a strong mobility advantage, which leaves you very vulnerable to last-turn objective dives, long range shooting, and fast-moving assaulters (dark eldar, tyranids). Additionally, spammed light-mech will be hard to bring down before running out of single-shot meltaguns. Finally, having no transports and no librarian leaves your entire army vulnerable to psychic abilities. Doom, Fear of the Darkness, and Weaken Resolve come to mind as potential ways to lose a full 10-man squad very quickly. IG, Tau, mechanized Eldar, and mechanized marine armies will all prove difficult matchups.

The greatest advantages are the high number of scoring units, low number of kill points, and relatively high durability of each squad. This is a very defensive army, giving little in the way of low-hanging fruit for kill points and posing a surprising resilience in combat for anyone not familiar with Pedro's inspiring presence. Horde Orks in particular will have a very difficult time with this army layout.

first of all i would like to thank you for the very honest and inciteful critque.

i would like to clearify the land raider. the LR w/ stormbolter is 260 and the sgt, chronus tank comander upgrade is 70 pts thats 330 (i screwed up) he grants the LR a BS5 and ignores stunned and shaken results. making a hard to kill, 2lascanon hits every turn

i was thinking of putting pedro in the LR charge forward with 20 assault marines using it for cover could generate 86 assault attacks first or second turn.

this leaves the devastator, tacs and the sternguards to eather capture objectives, mass bolter fire to soften up the enemy, or take up better positioning

the sternguard's Kraken bolts shoot 30" s4 ap4 so unless the enemy sets-up on the table edge you can probly reach them. well with good deployment anyway. with the sternguard on the flanks anything tryin to out flank you runs into either mass rapid-fire bolters of hellfire rounds or melta doom.
that was one way i was thinking of addressing the lack of mobility with the army
i never even considered the liberian i will definetly look into this.
so with the last 150pts what should i do get a liberian, thunderfire cannon, or some rinos?

[Tynskel]

TF Cannon. They are fun, and in a list like yours, I think you could add a few more long range guns. If you sacrifice 1 sternguard and 1 combi-weapon (leaving you with 9 marines, and 8 combis), you can afford rhinos for the two sternguard squads.

The only thing is, I don't see where the extra 150 points come from. Also, aren't the assault squads a little bit more expensive? they should be 210 each. This puts you 20 points over, before the thunderfire cannon.

Also, I think the devs should replace the multi-meltas with missile launchers. The extra range is useful, and can double duty with the heavy bolters by firing frags.

[dethangel]

taking some of the input here. i have a revised list.
HQ: pedro 175
chaplin w/ jetpack 115

troops:10 tac w/melta and plasma cannon 180
rino trans 35
10 tac w/melta and plasma cannon 180
razortrans w/stormbolter 50

elites:10 sternguard w/ 10 combi-meltas 300
rino trans w/ hunter killer 45
10 sternguard w/ 10 combi-meltas 300
razor trans w/ lascannons 75

fast: 10 assault w/ pw and 205

heavy: 1 thunderfire cannons 100
2 pred tank w/ autocannon and las spons 120ea 240
it was an infintry company. now converted to an mech company. how about this list ? is it more universly competetive?

[Connjurus]

With Pedro, just lump your Sternguard into troops - remember, only troops are scoring in 5th edition.

Also, your revised list is definitely viable, definitely viable.

Remember, you'll have to combat squad your razorback squad at the beginning of the game to to put half of them inside as it only has a transport capacity of 6.

[WereWolf_nr]

how about this list ? is it more universly competetive?

Yes, it is more competitive than the first list in my opinion.

[Tynskel]

I can't help but think you can get something better for ant- tank for 375 points by losing one stern guard squad. You free up 150 points by dropping 5 members from to squad with razorback. That can get you a mortis dread with twin-twin auto cannons.

If you drop the squad entirely, you can get two mortis dreads and a land speeder with Multi-Melta.

If you keep the razorback stern guard, I would use half of the combo weapon points to get some long guns in there. A pair of plasma cannons and a combi plasma for the stationary 5 man squad? Two missile launchers and three combi-flamers would work too. Fire 30" guns and frags, or shoot transports. When something gets close, switch to ignore cover, and get closer, run up and flame--- still close, charge!! Don't underestimate 20 cc attacks.

[Tynskel]

With Pedro, just lump your Sternguard into troops - remember, only troops are scoring in 5th edition.

I am not sure what you mean by this. By taking Pedro, you gain 'hold the line' and sternguard can claim--- it says nothing about changing the FOC.

[Connjurus]

I'm just saying - there are *******s out there. It helps to be clear when making an army list, and one less possible argument to be had with an asshat saying, "You listed dem as elitez they no score!"

Stranger things have happened.

[Tynskel]

I'm just saying - there are *******s out there. It helps to be clear when making an army list, and one less possible argument to be had with an asshat saying, "You listed dem as elitez they no score!"

Stranger things have happened.

at this point, I would bust out my codex.

Why are you even playing with those people?


Not to mention, they are not troops.

[Connjurus]

Oh, you're right. Just scoring. Shows how rusty I am on Pedro's rules...

Not a big fan of'im anyways, though. I prefer Shrike and Sicarius.

[Tynskel]

oh yeah, I think Pedro is the worst of the Space Marine Heros. Stubborn is great n' all, but lysander can get that-- even better, Calgar allows you to make a choice. Both have eternal warrior, which is important. Dorn's Arrow is nice, however.

Sicarius is one of my favorite Space Marine Characters. He just all around kick's butt! That's a nice combo to use Shrike and Sicarius. My favorite thing about sicarius is that he really brings out the best in the other heros.

[dethangel]

the revised list has
2 preds. thats 2 autocannons and 4 lascannons
tacs have 2 meltas and 2 plasma cannons
sg have 20 combi meltas
pedro has powerfist
razorback w/ lascanon
rino w/ hunter killer
thunderfire cannon
thats 44 possible anti-tank weapons.

how much anti-tank do you think i need?

the sternguard are the backbone of this list.
pedro allowes them to be SCORING UNITS and NOT TROOPS so with the tacs thats 8 posible scoring units. i wish i could count them as troops i would try to take 4 sg squads and 0 tacs
the spec ammo gives me
kraken bolts 30" s4 ap4
dragonfire bolts 24" s4 ap5 >no cover save
vengence bolts 18 s4 ap3 >gets hot
helfire bolts 24" sX ap5 >wounds on 2+
<all bolts rapid-fire>
lets not forget the melta is an assault weapon with the sternguards 2 attacks anything gets with in 12" is screwed with a 10 melta blast and 30cc i4 s4 attacks. it is a 1 timer alpha strike. yes, but it will remove problems .
i like these guys better than terminators. pedro and the sg are what this list revolves around.


.

[dethangel]

oh yeah, I think Pedro is the worst of the Space Marine Heros. Stubborn is great n' all, but lysander can get that-- even better, Calgar allows you to make a choice. Both have eternal warrior, which is important. Dorn's Arrow is nice, however.

Sicarius is one of my favorite Space Marine Characters. He just all around kick's butt! That's a nice combo to use Shrike and Sicarius. My favorite thing about sicarius is that he really brings out the best in the other heros.

the worst? hes a walking chapter banner+1 attack all units with in 12" with orbital bombardment, dorns arrow , power fist and hold the line.:confused:
i like shrike too with vanguards infultrated. :)

[newtoncain]

IMO, you put at least 1 Stern in a Drop pod and combat squad them upon arrival. That's 5 Combi Meltas at 2 different vehicals.

[Tynskel]

IMO, you put at least 1 Stern in a Drop pod and combat squad them upon arrival. That's 5 Combi Meltas at 2 different vehicals.

you could do that, or you could take a razorback and combat squad 5 in a razorback. Then equip the other five with weapons desinged for long range. Much more effective use of Sternguard.

Sternguard are beefed up Tactical squads---- if you treat them this way, and understand how to use tactical squads, then you will master the Sternguard. Sternguard do not last long from drop podding--- usually 1 turn. I am not a fan of that method, and I loooovvvveee using drop pods.


Pedro really isn't very good. He is tactically inflexible. He's boring to fight. His uses are predictable. Pedro's Powerfist is the same as having a sgt with a powerfist, except you cannot target the Sgt. You won't believe how many times I have instant killed pedro. And once he is gone, the army reduces effectiveness by a large factor.

Lysander can hold his own in close combat, and he aides the squad's shooting.
Calgar is all around bad mofo
Vulkan cooks things by himself, and allows the entire army to cook things quite well.
Shrike is just fun to use.
Sicarius is flexible and buffs your troops.

You could stick with Pedro and take Sicarius as an aide. If you ditch a Sternguard squad you will gain 100 points after buying Sicarius. You have no methods of dealing with nasties in close combat. You sternguard will not be able to kill everything that comes in, and if a monsterous creature does make it in, your squads are stuck until they are dead. Heaven forbid that it makes it to your sternguard before they get to shoot! This is quite a possibility: A tzeentch lord with Bolt can fly to your rhino, blast it apart, and charge the contents, and you never get to fire a shot. Those 100 points can get 4 powerfists that will aide you immensely in close combat. Not to mention, Sicarius can handle his own in Close Combat.