2000 Point Competitive Dark Eldar (Suggestions Needed)

[L'Etat Cest Moi]

I played Dark Eldar as my first army for three years, and was repeatedly face stomped. After taking four years off from playing I started again with the new codex and joined a gaming club. I play well against them (beating Ork, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Salamanders, and Tyranids and losing only to Mech-Guard). I love the new codex and the 5th edition rules seem to flow much better than the old ones. This Saturday I am going to my first real tournament. I read a lot of the blogs, but would love to hear an outside perspective on my list as I have never played 2000 points (usually 1000-1500) and you all have a much better idea of what I should expect in the real world.

Thanks for any suggestions!

HQ-Asdrubael Vect - Deployed in Dais of Destruction. The Dais has a flickerfield and a nightshield.
HQ-2 Haemonculi - Both with liquifiers and venom blades. One is deployed in the Dais and the other in the raider.

E-4 Trueborn - 4 blasters. Venom with second splinter cannon and a nightshield.
E-4 Trueborn - 4 blasters. Venom with second splinter cannon and a nightshield.
E-4 Trueborn - 4 blasters. Venom with second splinter cannon and a nightshield.

T-8 Wracks - Deployed in Dais. 1 Liquifier and an Acothyst with a venom blade.
T-9 Wracks - Deployed in a raider (flickerfield/nightshield). 1 Liquifier and an Acothyst with a venom blade.
T-10 Warriors - Held in reserve on foot or sit in cover with DL. Used to take objectives left behind by alpha striking army.
T-10 Warriors - Held in reserve on foot or sit in cover with DL. Used to take objectives left behind by alpha striking army.

HS-Razorwing Jet - Nightshield/flickerfield. 4 Monoscyth.
HS-Razorwing Jet - Nightshield/flickerfield. 4 Monoscyth.

1999

[donut]

I played Dark Eldar as my first army for three years, and was repeatedly face stomped. After taking four years off from playing I started again with the new codex and joined a gaming club. I play well against them (beating Ork, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Salamanders, and Tyranids and losing only to Mech-Guard). I love the new codex and the 5th edition rules seem to flow much better than the old ones. This Saturday I am going to my first real tournament. I read a lot of the blogs, but would love to hear an outside perspective on my list as I have never played 2000 points (usually 1000-1500) and you all have a much better idea of what I should expect in the real world.

Thanks for any suggestions!

HQ-Asdrubael Vect - Deployed in Dais of Destruction. The Dais has a flickerfield and a nightshield.
HQ-2 Haemonculi - Both with liquifiers and venom blades. One is deployed in the Dais and the other in the raider.

E-4 Trueborn - 4 blasters. Venom with second splinter cannon and a nightshield.
E-4 Trueborn - 4 blasters. Venom with second splinter cannon and a nightshield.
E-4 Trueborn - 4 blasters. Venom with second splinter cannon and a nightshield.

T-8 Wracks - Deployed in Dais. 1 Liquifier and an Acothyst with a venom blade.
T-9 Wracks - Deployed in a raider (flickerfield/nightshield). 1 Liquifier and an Acothyst with a venom blade.
T-10 Warriors - Held in reserve on foot or sit in cover with DL. Used to take objectives left behind by alpha striking army.
T-10 Warriors - Held in reserve on foot or sit in cover with DL. Used to take objectives left behind by alpha striking army.

HS-Razorwing Jet - Nightshield/flickerfield. 4 Monoscyth.
HS-Razorwing Jet - Nightshield/flickerfield. 4 Monoscyth.

1999

dais cant take upgrades. they are no upgradable options under the dais.
drop a trueborn from each unit, its good to have lots of anti tank in a list, but spreading out more is better.
drop nightshield from venom. you are zipping foward and dropping off the TB, and gonna be in range of most shots already.
drop acothyst from 8 wrack unit. you already have vects leadership.
you 10 strong warrior units description is off. What alpha striking army? these are 400 pts in troops in a 2000 pt army, that if kept in reserve leaves 20% of your army not doing much, because when you do come in, you cant use the DLs that turn. if you are trying to create units to take leftover objectives, use small ones.
why have a hemoculus with wracks? you have feel no pain, the best part of pain tokens.
If you take vect, then make your oppenent really fear your alpha stike, because as it stands, most amies can stand up to this and come back and really hurt you, and you will continue to lose against those mech lists. drop hemo/ wracks, grab more warrior, blasters, lances, and a 3rd heavy. maybe 2 ravagers, 1 razorwing.

[L'Etat Cest Moi]

dais cant take upgrades. they are no upgradable options under the dais.
drop a trueborn from each unit, its good to have lots of anti tank in a list, but spreading out more is better.
drop nightshield from venom. you are zipping foward and dropping off the TB, and gonna be in range of most shots already.
drop acothyst from 8 wrack unit. you already have vects leadership.
you 10 strong warrior units description is off. What alpha striking army? these are 400 pts in troops in a 2000 pt army, that if kept in reserve leaves 20% of your army not doing much, because when you do come in, you cant use the DLs that turn. if you are trying to create units to take leftover objectives, use small ones.
why have a hemoculus with wracks? you have feel no pain, the best part of pain tokens.
If you take vect, then make your oppenent really fear your alpha stike, because as it stands, most amies can stand up to this and come back and really hurt you, and you will continue to lose against those mech lists. drop hemo/ wracks, grab more warrior, blasters, lances, and a 3rd heavy. maybe 2 ravagers, 1 razorwing.

Thanks for the response.

Codex 55 "treated exactly like a raider". If I am treating the dais like a raider would I not be able to upgrade it in the same way?

Do you not feel the nightshield is worth it for defense against short range attacks? I have avoided mass rapid fire attacks and Zanthrope lances with it in practice games. I typically keep the TB in the venom so that the anti-tank won't get pegged out directly. What would be the advantage to dropping them off?

15 points to make an Acothyst with a venom blade means I have 4 2+ to wound rolls that are poison. Is the increase in wound capabilities not worth the cost?

The warrior squads are either in reserve for objectives or in cover. It depends on the opponent and the game type. If I am facing a Rhino train in annihilation I would deploy them so they can pop transports. But if I am playing seize ground against Tyranids they can be reserved to pop out and rapid fire anyone on an objective within 18" of my board. 10 is the minimum size to have a dark lance as well. Plus 10 man instead of 5 allows me to keep kill points down (17 at 2000). With this logic in mind what are your thoughts on them? (Also only about 10% of my army at 230 points, not 20%)

If the Haemonculi are with the Wracks then A) they have furious charge giving them +1S. This means that against the majority of opponents I will be able to reroll all the failed poison to wound rolls. Plus the boost in initiative makes them super lethal for an ordinary troop. B) having a Haemonculi in the raider means that if Vect splits off from the squad he will have feel no pain.

[Brycec13]

the night shield bit can be useful for rapid fire but thats personal play type so if your style plays better with them keep em.
So far i think concenssus is that the dais cant use those upgrades.
the acothyst is almost overkill really a regular 8 man squad with vect and a haemy should be fine without and you could gather up points from nit pick stuff and maybe field a 5 man squad of warriors as well
the warior idea is very versatile but can be risky. Fortunately you can base your play style on opponent as it is apparent(and obvious) that you should and will.
if you get rid of that stuff youll have 36 points to start playing with and you could always drop one razorwing and pick up a ravager and have plenty for a somewhat balanced extra warrior squad for objectives. or you could keep the razorwings and upgrade the missles etc with some of the points.

All just thoughts of course because ultimately you play the army your own way.

[donut]

well with trueborn i would think that if you got first turn (ie point of your army w/ vect) then you would want to move 12" disembark, and shoot. start at 12" line + 12" move+ 2.99" disembark, + 18 range= 44.99" into enemy territory. then theres the risk of being on the transport when its your enemies turn to shoot. with only one target instead of 2, you risk losing 2 units. transport blows up (not hard with open topped armor 10), units inside wounded on 4+ with only a 5+save. 4 guys, average 2 die. if you disembark, then your oppenent has to divide up his fire. DE can take alot of low cost unit + transport, meaning there will be alot on the board to divide shooting at. and you will have alot left to retaliate back with.

[BlindGunn]

Thanks for the response.

Codex 55 "treated exactly like a raider". If I am treating the dais like a raider would I not be able to upgrade it in the same way?
In a friendly game, I would say "yes". In a tournament setting - basically it's Rules As Written.

Rule for Dias says it is "treated like a Raider" - not that it has the ability to buy options as any other Raider.

You can argue the point with a tournament organizer, but I strongly suggest you ask well in advance so you aren't caught off-guard.


Do you not feel the nightshield is worth it for defense against short range attacks? <SNIP>

I agree with you - the Night Shield can reduce number of shots for double-tapping bolters, etc. Some people like it (I do), some people think the points more useful elsewhere. It's a preference thing - you get to choose.


The warrior squads are either in reserve for objectives or in cover. It depends on the opponent and the game type. If I am facing a Rhino train in annihilation I would deploy them so they can pop transports. But if I am playing seize ground against Tyranids they can be reserved to pop out and rapid fire anyone on an objective within 18" of my board. 10 is the minimum size to have a dark lance as well. Plus 10 man instead of 5 allows me to keep kill points down (17 at 2000). With this logic in mind what are your thoughts on them? (Also only about 10% of my army at 230 points, not 20%)
If you're counting on a single dark lance to make a difference at shooting an armoured vehicle, I would prefer to go 20 and take 2 shots, maybe add a blaster in case they get too close. You have to be REALLY lucky for a single dark lance to take out a vehicle these days...

I think I would prefer 10-man warrior squads on foot to carry the Splinter Cannon and a Blaster. You will be able to move and shoot all weapons, rather than give up your "primary weapon" shot if you come in as a reserve or are forced to move. Ideally, the foe will be on foot by the time they get close enough to threaten your Warrior Squads and the Splinter Cannon and 8 other Splinter Rifles will really help mow down the enemy. The Blaster I would take as a "just-in-case" weapon in this squad configuration.

Anyway - good luck and let us know how it goes! :D

[L'Etat Cest Moi]

Thanks for more feedback.

Quick question, can vehicles contest objectives? It never directly says so in the rule book but it is alluded to on pages 89 and 91 of 5th edition.

Based of of your guy's suggestions here is the new list.

HQ-Asdrubael Vect - Deployed in Dais of Destruction.
HQ-3 Haemonculi - All with liquifiers and venom blades. One is deployed in the Dais and the others in the raiders.

E-3 Trueborn - 3 blasters. Venom with second splinter cannon.
E-3 Trueborn - 3 blasters. Venom with second splinter cannon.
E-3 Trueborn - 3 blasters. Venom with second splinter cannon.

T-8 Wracks - Deployed in Dais. 1 Liquifier and an Acothyst with a venom blade.
T-9 Wracks - Deployed in a raider (flickerfield). 1 Liquifier and an Acothyst with a venom blade.
T-9 Wracks - Deployed in a raider (flickerfield). 1 Liquifier and an Acothyst with a venom blade.

HS-Razorwing Jet - Flickerfield and 4 Monoscyth.
HS-Razorwing Jet - Flickerfield and 4 Monoscyth.
HS-Ravager - Flickerfield.

1983

You guys had a lot of good input and I think this list is much stronger. I will be going to the game store as soon as it opens tomorrow to get the extra two vehicles. There is still 17 points to spare, how would you spend them? Haemonculi wargear?

[Brycec13]

Wargear would be a good option. Haemonculi can take some mean stuff but they are up in the air. Things like the shattershard and the casket of flensing are really potent upgrades but they are all potentially pointless as well, plus you plobably would rather use the liquifier running with the wracks but it gives you an option if you don't see where to put the points.

[somerandomdude]

While I think that the Acothyst is a good upgrade, I would like to note that you don't get a bonus attack for wielding two weapons with a Venom Blade and a pair of poison (4+) according to some people. I disagree, but the case has been presented that they are two different special weapons, so if you chose to use the Venom Blade you would not get a bonus.

I still think he's worth the points for the LD bonus, though.

Also, vehicles can indeed contest objectives, and if a troop is aboard you can claim objectives as well.

Personally, I think the Dais is a waste of points. Sure, armor 13 is nice (as are three Dark Lances), but any balanced list you face should have enough to take out multiple 12/13/14 vehicles, and with no wargear options available, it is at a major disadvantage. If you cut it for a regular Raider with Flickerfield, you'll have quite a few points left, and I'd spend part of those on Shock Prows and Torment Grenade Launchers for your troop Raiders. This gives you tankshocking ability (important in objective games) and you can bunch the enemy together in order to make the most out of your Liquifiers.

You'll also end up with enough points for a 6 man Reaver squad with Heat Lances, and the melta will go a long way to help you out with some vehicles. Spare points can be spent on a couple Necrotoxin missiles (make sure to fire them in seperate turns to increase chances of pinning).

NOTE: As far as the Dais getting upgrades, the army page entry that says "Treated like a Raider" tells you to go to page 44. This is the page that talks about the Raider and any special rules it has. When it comes time to spend points on units, you can only spend points on what the specific entries tell you. The Raider entry allows you to buy upgrades, but the Dais does not. As a way of comparison, a Devastator is, for all intents and purposes, treated exactly the same as a Tactical Marine in game terms. The only difference between the two are the options available to them in army construction. If the Dais, as written, were allowed to take upgrades, then a Tactical Squad would be able to take 4 missile launchers.

[L'Etat Cest Moi]

HQ-Asdrubael Vect - Deployed Raider (flickerfield).
HQ-3 Haemonculi - All with liquifiers and venom blades. One is deployed with Vect and the others in the raiders.

E-3 Trueborn - 3 blasters. Venom with second splinter cannon.
E-3 Trueborn - 3 blasters. Venom with second splinter cannon.
E-3 Trueborn - 3 blasters. Venom with second splinter cannon.

T-8 Wracks - Deployed Vect. 1 Liquifier and an Acothyst with a venom blade.
T-9 Wracks - Deployed in a raider (flickerfield). 1 Liquifier and an Acothyst with a venom blade.
T-9 Wracks - Deployed in a raider (flickerfield). 1 Liquifier and an Acothyst with a venom blade.
T-8 Warriors - Deployed in a raider (flickerfield). 1 Shredder.

HS-Razorwing Jet - Flickerfield and 4 Monoscyth.
HS-Razorwing Jet - Flickerfield and 4 Monoscyth.
HS-Ravager - Flickerfield.

2000

This is the list I ran based off of your suggestions and my play style. Thanks for all the help! The results form the tournament are below.

Round 1-Mech Guard
This game was standard 5 objectives. I won to go first with 3 objectives in my territory. He deployed nothing. Outflanked (Al Rahiem Platoon) by four Chimera with lots of Plasma and flamers and facing big tanks across the table things started going bad fast. His Manticore was blowing me to bits. On turn two outflanking Sentinels took Vect to the ground and then charged his unit tying him up for the game. I slowly popped transports but he got enough 'crew stunned' rolls to nerf my vehicles. The game ended with me holding an objective, him holding two, and me contesting one he was on giving him a fairly won game.

Round 2-Foot Eldar
It was kill points and dawn of war. I used my night vision and everything was in range making quick work out of his HQ and two troops. I slowly rolled over everything else. Tabled him top of turn five.

Round 3-Air Cav Guard
Despite winning to go first I deployed defensively. This proved to be a bad bad bad idea that I can not quite rationalize now after the game is over. I got rocked pretty damn hard. It was 3 objectives and he had six platoons. He held two and the other was contested.

List Analysis
Vect-Did nothing this tournament. I won to go first every game so I did not need his seizing bonus. Round one he got stuck with Walkers, round two he never needed to disembark, and round three he was plasma and flamered by three squards to get him (and the wracks) off an objective in turn five. Lame.

Haemonculi/Wracks-In close combat they do serious work. Getting shot at they die. Still better than warriors in my opinion as a troop, and the liquifiers are nice.

Trueborn/Venom-While they did not shine they did their job. Trueborn were able to pop a few tanks and destroyed Eldar walkers and the Venoms were consistent to deal 3 or 4 wounds a turn each. At 140 points I don't know if they did their job here, but I think they could easily be game heroes (such as when they hunt land raiders).

Warriors-The one time I asked them to do anything, the shredder scattered seven inches back into the squad killing my own unit. Only good for holding objectives and distracting people.

Ravager-It was definitely scaring people. I heard a lot, as it a good half of the tournament population talking about their fear of dark lances (from both me and another dark eldar player who beat both Necrons and Chaos Daemons but lost to Space Wolves).

Razorwings-I really never had blob squads to use the missiles. They were though just as good or tank hunters as the Ravager, and were less of a target. Good on them.


I think the real strength of this list is the fact that it is ten vehicles. If I played offensively, even if I take hits, between flickerfields and the number of targets out there I have enough to do some face smashing right back. I also enjoy the mobility of the troops. Being able to contest anything in 18" with just about anything nearly got me the first game.

Thanks for all your help!

[Brycec13]

Fighting Guard is always challenging for a DE army.