2000pt IG Mech

[newtoncain]

Just looking for an opinion grade on this army. I know it is not "Uber", but on a 1-10 scale or A-F scale, what do you think?
Thanks in advance.

HQ-Lord Comm PF/PP-Chimera + HS
T- Penal x 2
T-Vets PF/MG x 2/GL/Demo-Chimera + HvyStub(HS)
T-Vets PF/MG x 2/Flam/Demo-Chimera + HS
T-Vets PG x 2/Flam-Chimera + HS
E-Ratlings x 10
E-PBS x 10-Chimera + HS
F-Vendetta + HBS
H-Hydra x 2
H-Griffon x 2 (HF in hull)
H-Vanq + LC/MMS and Russ + LC/HBS

2000 even.

[ElCheezus]

C.

Overall, it depends on how you like it. If its fun to you, and doens't suck completely, then it's not *horrible*. I see some places for trimming fat and tightening focus, though. It sounds like you don't want super-detailed advice, but I'm going to give it to you anway. It's how I pass time at work in the mornings. If it's more than you wanted, feel free to skip over it and just take away the "grade" at the top.

Minus points for: Lord Commissar, mixed Vet specials, PF in Vet squads, PBS setup (and lack of a second unit), Vanquisher (and it's setup) (and it's squad), Ratlings.

First off, I'm guessing at your general idea of what the army does: It's long range power with some mech support in front, plus a few harassment units. I'm going to try to advise toward that.

First off, the Vanquisher never seems worth it to me. With only a single shot that's not a template, it's 50/50 whether it does anything. Since it's main target is pretty much Land Raiders, you need more reliable firepower than that. If they don't die in the first couple turns, they're in your face and it's too late. I'd switch it to another LRBT. This saves some points and makes that squad more cohesive. With a Vanquisher and a BT, one wants to fire at tanks and the other wants to fire (mainly) at troops. At the very least, the MultiMelta sponsons should go. They've got half the range of the other cannons, and won't get fired most of the time.

I haven't used Griffons, but they seem underpowered to me. But then, they're cheap, so I guess that's the tradeoff. I'd rather run Colossi. This would add some ooomph to your list, and seriously make Marines come out of their hole and try to get you. I know they're a lot more points, but there might be some room with some changes.

Vendettas. I love 'em. I'd run two, since they're a huge target. This also gives you added anti-transport shots so your blast markers have more to shoot at.

PBS: I've always been an advocate of running them with 6 psykers. 6 is enough to wound most infantry on 2+, and reducing LD 10 by 6 still makes a very difficult morale check. The other suggestion (again) is to take two. Their power is so strong against some units, that your really really want it to go off to save your butt.

Ratlings: These guys have some potential, but sniper rifles just aren't as good as advertised. A full squad of 10 is the way to go, though. I'd cut these if you need points. Otherwise they're "flavor to taste" in my opinion.

Now the Vets: I highly advocate taking 3x whatever special you choose, especially if it's meltas. I look at it this way; assuming you miss with one melta, taking three vs two doubles your hits. Three is indeed the magic number. Plus, a flamer or GL isn't really going to add much to your anti-infantry ability. Thier main function is anti-armor, and a flamer just distracts from that. The same can be said of the PF. Vet squads really aren't that good at mixing it up in CC, and taking a PF doesn't miraculously change that.

Lord Commissars are kind of an odd unit. Their main purpose, as I see it, is to add a Commissar to a CC unit that can't buy a regular one when they need a LD boost. I don't see any units in your army that need that. I assume you're adding him to a PLS to give it some more punch?

Here's my revision of your list, trying to keep the same style.

CCS 3x Melta in a Chimera: 135

PBS 6 Psykers in a Chimera: 135
PBS 6 Psykers in a Chimera: 135

3x Melta Vets in a Chimera: 155
3x Melta Vets in a Chimera: 155
3x Plasma Vets in a Chimera: 170
PLS: 80

Vendetta: 130
Vendetta: 130

2x Hydra: 150
2x Colossus: 280
2x LRBT: 300

Total: 1955

That gives you some room for sponson or LC upgrades. Or if you went with Basilisks instead of Colossi, you'd save 30 more points. Depends on your taste and meta, but I have a thing for Colossi. Lemme know what you think.

[newtoncain]

C.

Overall, it depends on how you like it. If its fun to you, and doens't suck completely, then it's not *horrible*. I see some places for trimming fat and tightening focus, though. It sounds like you don't want super-detailed advice, but I'm going to give it to you anway. It's how I pass time at work in the mornings. If it's more than you wanted, feel free to skip over it and just take away the "grade" at the top.

Minus points for: Lord Commissar, mixed Vet specials, PF in Vet squads, PBS setup (and lack of a second unit), Vanquisher (and it's setup) (and it's squad), Ratlings.

First off, I'm guessing at your general idea of what the army does: It's long range power with some mech support in front, plus a few harassment units. I'm going to try to advise toward that.

First off, the Vanquisher never seems worth it to me. With only a single shot that's not a template, it's 50/50 whether it does anything. Since it's main target is pretty much Land Raiders, you need more reliable firepower than that. If they don't die in the first couple turns, they're in your face and it's too late. I'd switch it to another LRBT. This saves some points and makes that squad more cohesive. With a Vanquisher and a BT, one wants to fire at tanks and the other wants to fire (mainly) at troops. At the very least, the MultiMelta sponsons should go. They've got half the range of the other cannons, and won't get fired most of the time.I had an extra 15pts , so i just upgraed it from a LRBT

I haven't used Griffons, but they seem underpowered to me. But then, they're cheap, so I guess that's the tradeoff. I'd rather run Colossi. This would add some ooomph to your list, and seriously make Marines come out of their hole and try to get you. I know they're a lot more points, but there might be some room with some changes.I'm trying these out, plus for some reason I don't like to run proxies or counts as and I have 2 griffons

Vendettas. I love 'em. I'd run two, since they're a huge target. This also gives you added anti-transport shots so your blast markers have more to shoot at.My 2nd one is currently new on the sprue wating to get done. But will have 2 by marchish. Currently working on my Son's DE army, so IG is on hold

PBS: I've always been an advocate of running them with 6 psykers. 6 is enough to wound most infantry on 2+, and reducing LD 10 by 6 still makes a very difficult morale check. The other suggestion (again) is to take two. Their power is so strong against some units, that your really really want it to go off to save your butt.
Only have 9 + the oversearer, so I'm handcuffed with one squad.
Ratlings: These guys have some potential, but sniper rifles just aren't as good as advertised. A full squad of 10 is the way to go, though. I'd cut these if you need points. Otherwise they're "flavor to taste" in my opinion.This is my cheap harrasment unit for infantry, thinking PBS reduces targets LD, then hopefully get a unsaved would and pinned

Now the Vets: I highly advocate taking 3x whatever special you choose, especially if it's meltas. I look at it this way; assuming you miss with one melta, taking three vs two doubles your hits. Three is indeed the magic number. Plus, a flamer or GL isn't really going to add much to your anti-infantry ability. Thier main function is anti-armor, and a flamer just distracts from that. The same can be said of the PF. Vet squads really aren't that good at mixing it up in CC, and taking a PF doesn't miraculously change that.
THis is were my conformity aspect comes in, 1 vet squad is from Necomunda Arbitites with shot guns and GL, did find 2 extra guys I converted to MG, so again I'm hand cuffed. Also have 2 squads of Storm troopers I use as Vets. I have 2 F, 2 GL, 2 MG and 2 PG, I guess I need to buy another MG and PG so I can run them with 3 each. The PF I like better than a PS, if they do get into CC, at least I have chance to do an unsavible wound.
Lord Commissars are kind of an odd unit. Their main purpose, as I see it, is to add a Commissar to a CC unit that can't buy a regular one when they need a LD boost. I don't see any units in your army that need that. I assume you're adding him to a PLS to give it some more punch?He is the flex, initially I thought about putting with ratlings = they don't run away, but he can go anywhere (Vets/Penal/PBS)

Here's my revision of your list, trying to keep the same style.

CCS 3x Melta in a Chimera: 135

PBS 6 Psykers in a Chimera: 135
PBS 6 Psykers in a Chimera: 135

3x Melta Vets in a Chimera: 155
3x Melta Vets in a Chimera: 155
3x Plasma Vets in a Chimera: 170
PLS: 80

Vendetta: 130
Vendetta: 130

2x Hydra: 150
2x Colossus: 280
2x LRBT: 300

Total: 1955

That gives you some room for sponson or LC upgrades. Or if you went with Basilisks instead of Colossi, you'd save 30 more points. Depends on your taste and meta, but I have a thing for Colossi. Lemme know what you think.

Thanks for the advice.
I like your army, just don't have all the models yet. Your build is superior to mine.

[ElCheezus]

I seriously understand modeling constraints. I have some problems with that, myself. I run proxies, and console myself that I am continually working toward WYSIWYG. I used to play Magic and gave people static about using proxies, so I'm kind of a hypocrite for using themin 40k. Gives me incentive to work harder to finish my conversions and clear my name.

I think that second Vendetta will be a great addition. I'd probably pay for it when it's time by cutting the Stubbers, the Power Fists, and the Doctrines. The only other change I'd suggest immediately is switching the flamer in your plasma squad with the GL in your melta squad, just for consistency. Not a big deal, though. Considering the modeling restrictions, it's a pretty decent list.

[newtoncain]

Ended up winning all 3 of my games, but took 3rd overall for points. Beat inf guard, Wolves and mech guard.
Definitally need to get 3 MG/PG in all my vet squads. Demos helped alot in 2 of the 3 games.
Ratlings were so-so, need a 2nd Valk/Vend for sure, Griffons rocked when they lived, Commissar allways rolled a 1 for his PP then rolled a 6 for the save:eek:

[ElCheezus]

I'm curious about how two things performed, and if you think they were up to expectation: the Power Fists and the Vanquisher mixed with the BT. Did they work just fine for you, or was there any dissonance?

[newtoncain]

PF on vets, the 1 time I got into CC died before striking vs Wolves.

Vanq helped vs guard in 1st round (ripped off exterminator turret, killed it 2 turns later), 2nd round cracked open a Rhino with wolves inside, then both tanks missed all their shots vs a drop pod.:eek:.
3rd round vs mech guard both my russ and hydra's never got a shot off before dieing (opponent rolled really sweet that turn).

PF on Com Lord did kill a drop pod in closecombat (vs wolves) and some IG inf he assaulted in vs IG.
Thought the PP did nothing, rolled a "1" everytime to hit and a "6" for the overheat save.

[WereWolf_nr]

The thing about Guard PFs is you will rarely be going before your enemy anyway so you might as well take the extra strength.

[ElCheezus]

That's under the assumption that you'll live to swing. Most enemies hit on 3+ and then wound on 3+ or better, so it's not unheard of to just be wiped when taking a charge. It only takes 34 attacks on the charge to statistically do 10 wounds to a full vet squad. That's just a touch more than a ten man squad with CC and pistol getting the charge. If the Vets have taken fire or lost guys beforehand, it's unlikely the PF will survive to swing. I've never seen any CC gear to be worthwhile for Vets since they basically need Furious Charge and the charge in order to be effective enough to keep it from feeling like I was throwing away three special weapons.