IG 1500 tourney list

[Dark_Crozius]

Hi guys. Don't have the codex to hand but did check this last night so should be roughly right. I'm intrested in how this would work out at a GT as its a refined version of a list i took in 2009 (which did badly)

Company command squad
Creed
medic
chimera

Vet squad 1
2 melta
flamer
lascannon
chimera

Vet squad 2
2 melta
flamer
lascannon
chimera

Vet squad 3
2 melta
flamer
lascannon
chimera

Vet squad 4
harker
3 plasma guns
demolitions
missile launcher

2 vendettas

1 banewolf
multimelta

Penal legion squad

Marbo

When i worked it out last it was more or less 1500- but need to double check it obviously.

Big question is- how would a list like this work at a GT?

[ElCheezus]

Straight off, I see a lot of things I don't like, personally.

Medic, Creed, lack of specials in your CCS, mixed specials in Vet squads, HWs in Vet squads, Harker, Banewolf.

Medic: I postulate that medics are only good in CC-oriented CCSs. I'm sure they're not worth it in shooty squads, so I'm about to try them in CC for a bit to see if they have any use whatsoever. In the squad you have, there's no even anything to protect.

Creed: When you buy Creed, you get two things: Scouts on one unit, and double the orders and order range. It looks like you're mainly set up to just use him for Scouts, and I don't think that a USR is worth paying 90(ish) points.

CCS: You have four guys with BS 4 that are just dying to be given Meltas or Plasmas, and you have them with Lasguns. I find CCSs to be a great suicide Melta unit, myself. They don't score, so you don't lose anything there, plus they can take enough meltas and twin-link with their own order to make sure the job gets done. Of course, that's not a great idea if you've got Creed, but they should still take advantage of their weapon slots. Even just a heavy weapon would be something.

Vets: Speaking of special weapons, you start to dilute the role of your Vets when you don't take 3x. With three meltas, even missing with one leaves a great chance of wrecking the vehicle you shoot at. Let me put it this way: assuming you miss with one of your meltas, taking three vs two doubles your chances of wrecking the vehicle. Also, I don't think a flamer really adds that much. If you're shooting at infantry, you've got six guys with lasguns (or shotguns, if you've got all assault weapons) plus the meltas. If that doesn't take care of what you're shooting, the extra two hits from a regular flamer aren't likely to save you. It's better to focus on what you're good at (anti-tank with the meltas) than to sacrifice your main role to support your secondary, which you still won't be good at.

Heavy Weapons: This is something else that gets in the way of Vets. Vet squads get all sorts of special weapons, which are all short-ranged, so they want to move and get close to the enemy so they can pewpewpew. When they move, the heavy weapons are wasted, since they can't fire. But, if you stay still to fire the heavy, then the specials aren't going to see use. You see the dilema.

Harker: Well, he's never impressed me when I used him. He buys you Infiltrate, Stealth, and a Heavy Bolter. You can use him two ways, to infiltrate into cover and lay down some ranged anti-infantry; or to outflank special weapons. If you infiltrate, I think the best loadout would be a second Heavy Bolter, to pair up with the one that Harker has, and some Grenade Launchers. I say GLs because they have a similar profile, being medium strength and AP4, as well as having good range.

Banewolf: I like AP3 as much as the next guy, don't get me wrong. However, you have to get really close to fire the cannon. If you don't manage to wipe the squad, you're absolutely in charge range the next turn. Not always a death sentence, but I much prefer the range provided by the Hellhouind. I've also had many opportunities with the Hellhound to keep firing after it gets immobilised.

I think this list needs more focus, especially in the Vet squads. They're being pulled three different directions the way they're set up. What are you wanting to do with the army, in terms of playstyle? Knowing that, I could make some more specific suggestions of changes.

[Dark_Crozius]

Before i address the issues raised in your reply, i just want to thank you for it. I've put up lists on forums before but thats one of the best replies i've had- crittical yet construtive at the same time- just what i was looking for.

Now to business:

Creed and the medic: Medic is gone, no questions asked. Creed on the other hand is there to give me scout on the banewolf, hopefully a fast tank scouting should get me in range of something for the cannon or multimelta to shoot at around turn 1 or 2. That said i'm sure i could easily drop him, giving the squad the meltas you sugested.

Vet squads: That, like alot of this list is down to what the models are armed with. I'd love to give them all meltas but simply don't have the models to do that AND give meltas to the CCS. I'm intrested to know which you think would benifit most from them?

Harker and the heavy weapon teams: Simply put- there cause i like the models and would'nt want to take away models i spent ages on from the army. This said, i do think Harkers squad could give me another outflank menace to use (along with alot of the army if i put them in reserve) and is a flexable addition to the army.

As far as general army plan is, advance the banewolf (if i keep creed) and vendettas in scout to add instant pressue to enemy whilst vets advance in chimeras as a 2nd wave. The penal legion and harker are there to outflank and objective gravb and/or harass the enemy weaker units (which i'm guessing he'll keep back). Marbo uses his demo charge to clear troops off objectives.

Thoughts thus far?

[ElCheezus]

You're welcome for the response. I feel it's easy to be critical, but not so easy to be constructive, so I make sure to back up my claims with reasons or my post was a waste of time.

I'll start with your general plan and advance from there, since we want to build a list that plays like you imagine it. Here's how I read it: instant pressure from a first wave, with a second with more punch following. Also, there are some harrassment elements with the outflankers. What I love is that this is almost exactly what I play, though I go about it a little differently.

So your first wave is the Vendettas and the Banewolf. I can see a reason for the Banewolf, here. It can deliver a stronger punch in one turn, being able to fire both weapons after moving 12". That works out since it's practically sacrificial if it's "all up ons" that early. I suggest two changes to it, though. First, use a hull heavy flamer. That way you can lay two templates on some infantry when it fires. It loses the flexibility that a MM provides, but since we're looking at maximizing it's one-turn carnage, focus is more appropriate. Second, you'll probably want smoke launchers. Scouting can only get you to within 18" of the enemy. After that, you can move 12" and fire, but the template won't get quite as many as you'd want. If you take smoke launchers, you can hopefully buy another turn before shooting and soak up more fire.

With the Vendettas, they have no real need to scout forward. Their guns have enough range to shoot from the back. If you're going to advance, you should put some Vets in there, or maybe the CCS to deliver special weapons to the front. That'll bring five units to their door on turn one. Usually I'd want to put meltas in the advance squad to take down transports and give the rest of the army something to shoot at. In this case, though, there's a range issue when coming out of Vendettas. Since the hull has to be 18" away after the Scouts move, then moves 12", you're going to be more than 6" from the target because of the shape of the Vendetta. So I'd go for plasmas. Between 6" and 12", they have better odds against AV 12 than meltas, and have twice as many shots against infantry.

Arming Vets: If you have modeling restrictions, I'd still like to see them focused on one target. It would be better to have two of them with 3x Melta, and one of them with 3x Flamer (even though I don't usually like flamers on Vets).

Outflanking Harker: I can get behind this, especially with Plamsas. You can get side/rear shots with them, and have a more devastating effect on any infantry you suprise. I would put him in a Chimera, though. This should be fine if you put a CCS and a Vet squad in the Vendettas, as there will be an extra one or two floating around.

What I'm imagining you list looking like:

CCS 4x Plasma, Creed, Astropath: 140 + 90

Marbo: 65

Melta Vets: 100
Meta Vets in a Chimera: 155
Flamer Vets in a Chimera: 140
Plasma Vets in a Chimera w/ Harker: 170 + 55
PLS: 80

Vendetta: 130
Vendetta: 130
Banewolf w/ Smoke: 135

Total: 1390

Of course, you'll have to make decisions on modeling restrictions and any doctrines or heavy weapons teams you want, so I consider that a skeleton to work from. I hope at least some of that makes sense.

[davel]

Hail dark crozious!
My fellow brother of heat 2

My advise well a wise man once told me "Don't Fixate on land raiders!"

hows the army going? I've got the last things on the painting desk. Including athemed base board for my eldar force ( well sort of) But I have trully bonkers idea for my army list which is in final stages of construction.

dave l

[Dark_Crozius]

Thanks for the advice so far. I've taken some of your advice and have been franticaly building another 3 melta guns so that i have 3 in each squad. That also means i have 3 flamers that i can put in the CCS who are probibly going to end up in a vendetta.

Davel: I'm almost done, just got one heavy weapon team and a few melta gun vets to do and i'm sorted.

[ElCheezus]

By the way, your use of Creed inspired the latest army I posted. It's quite packed with Scoutsy goodness, and quite an Alpha Strike punch. You should check it out.

Also, I want to point out something I got wrong. I said earlier that Scouting can only get you to within 18" of the enemy. I got that confused with Infiltrating. You can scout to within 12". This makes Melta vets in Valks quie easy to get within melta range, after all, so even though I still go for Plasma because I like it better, I don't have anything bad to say about the meltas anymore.

[Dark_Crozius]

Ok, thanks for all the help with the list. Just got back from the throne of skulls GT so thought i'd share with you how the list got on.

over all i played 6 games over the weekend (5 for the GT 1 friendly) and managed to win 3, lose 2 draw 1 which given my track record is'nt actualy that bad.

After reviewing the list i plan to take out the penal legion and the vets lascannons and replace them with a battle psker squad in chimera. I've heard people rave about this squad in the past so shall give them a go.

[ElCheezus]

The problem with the PBS is that any sort of anti-psyker shuts them down. I don't run them at all, because there are Eldar in them thar hills (my FLGS). If they run their runes of 3d6, it's very rare that the PBS gets a shot off before losing models to perils. Having a unit being shut down just by another unit's presence turns me off to them. Of course, that depends on your meta, and if anybody does things like that.

Also, my standard advice for a PBS is to run two units. Their ability is usually a clutch move and changes a game. If you rely on that to turn the tide, you really, really need the power to go off. That means it's best to take an extra unit in case one doesn't do the job.

[Dark_Crozius]

I'll be honest i don't see me fielding 2 squads. As much as i see your point i'd like to point out that they are in the 'bonus' section of my army in that i'm not actualy counting on them doing that much. I just see them being abit better than the penal legion and las cannons that did'nt do much for me.