Grey Knights

[Xzarol]

Hey guys, just wondering what you guys think of all the rumors surrounding the release of the new Grey Knight Codex! Personally I'm really excited, and can't help but be hopeful that most of the rumors floating around are true.

On a side-note, I hate the Doom of Malan'tai (sp?). I had a game on New Years where my friend landed that bugger right next to an assault squad and a terminator squad and wiped both of them out, as well as putting two wounds on Mephiston. Ouch.

[DarkLink]

Even if the codex is no good, it's better than what we have now. And if it's horribly broken, well, then sucks to be my opponent:D.

[Xzarol]

That's a good way to look at it. I'll have to agree there.

I've been playing Imperial Guard since the new codex came out pretty much. I started off about 3-4 years ago playing Grey Knights, and that was...well, it was a punishing army to learn with, to say the least. :P

[ElCheezus]

I've played guard since 4th (not long, I know), but I'm about ready for a new army. Since I've been painting lots of the same thing over and over again (does everything have to be on a chimera chassis?) I'm looking forward to an elite army where I can seriously sit down with each model and put time and love into.

Plus there was the section in the rumors where a 5-man PAGK team ate through a squad of Boyz at 2000 points in a playtest game. The other squad of 5 got tarpitted by another squad of Boyz, but didn't get killed. That's the kind of elite army I'm looking for. No way could guard do that.

[Xzarol]

Oh wow, I hadn't heard about that particular play-test. If a 5-man PAGK squad can do things like that, I would be well pleased with them. The only thing I'm used to when I get charged by boyz is getting tar-pitted or annihilated, guardsmen falling left and right.

Hell, PAGK right now get torn up just as easily as vanilla marines. They only have the saving grace of a single power weapon, but that counts for about nothing when you consider the cost of each model.

[Necron_Lord]

I'm not thrilled about another MEQ army coming out after three already. Having said that, it would mean that Necrons would be that much closer to getting a new codex.

Regarding the DoM, just ML, melta or LC the bugger. After one failed save, it goes in the dead pile due to instant death.

[Xzarol]

Ah yeah, definitely true. Mephiston got him in the following couple of turns, I believe. It's just obnoxious how much damage that named brain can do when he falls. We were playing a 1000PT game, and he fell down and did somewhere around 500 points of damage before anything could touch him. It was all in good fun, though. =P Just need to be careful of him if I see him again in a list for a tournament.

[DarkLink]

I'm not thrilled about another MEQ army coming out after three already. \

At least Grey Knights actually deserve their own codex. Blood Angels could have been fit into the SM codex easily, using the Chapter Tactics rule. Black Templar and Space Wolves could have, as well, albeit with a little more work.

And those poor Dark Angels are practically in the codex already. They just needed to copy/paste a few special characters, and make Chapter Masters in terminator armor make Terminators troops, and viola, instant DA codex.

[Shadoq]

I'm looking forward to Grey Knights as well...
Between my IG and Tau I've got enough shooty shooty going on and would highly enjoy a close combat oriented army.

[HsojVvad]

I was looking forward to Grey Knights, but not no more. what stopped me from collecting a Grey Knight army was the price of the metal minis. Now it looks like it will not be any cheaper collecting plastic GK, so I guess it will be the same all over again.

Wanting to collect, but to expensive money wise to do so.

[RedWidow]

"I was looking forward to Grey Knights, but not no more. what stopped me from collecting a Grey Knight army was the price of the metal minis. Now it looks like it will not be any cheaper collecting plastic GK, so I guess it will be the same all over again.

Wanting to collect, but to expensive money wise to do so. "

Why would you think that it would be as expensive? A 5 man box of metal GK in power armor costs nearly $50...if they release them in plastic, a 5 mans squad will most likely cost $25 or so...based on the BA boxed sets.

[DarkLink]

What 40k army isn't expensive?

[Xzarol]

Yeah, it's really hard to avoid not paying out the *** with this hobby. Games Workshop has a nasty habit of hiking up prices to pretty ridiculous levels.

Anyway, I think Grey Knights are probably one of the best armies to play simply because:

1. Low model count. You can take more time to paint each model, and each model will work harder and better for you than something from another army.
2. Less to carry around. With IG, I'm carrying around at least an Army Case full of guys. I keep my Vendettas in a separate container in my trunk, since they don't fit with the other things.
3. More satisfaction from a until surviving. You can really focus on each squad and what you want it to do, and usually be happy with the results it gives you.

In a way, I think Grey Knights will be both good and bad for beginners. Good because you can focus your attention on a few squads, and bad because they will be so strong that if you deviate to another army you will be dissapointed in individual model strength.

For myself, I know it was weird getting used to Guardsman squads. I had to learn about all those morale checks, and how hard it is to wound with BS3 and STR3.

Overall though, I can't be more excited! I've been wanting an army that can get in the rough of it. I know as an IG player that some of my friends complain about board-edge sitting tactics. And honestly, I can understand how fighting your way across a table can be frustrating against IG. I've been trying to mix it up, but I haven't bought a model in probably half a year. I've been saving up ever since I heard of the codex perhaps coming out. =P

[Defenestratus]

If you guys think that GW is an expensive hobby then you need to go try out others.

I'm staring at a $10k boat in my driveway thats been obsoleted by a $30,000 one that I gotta buy to remain competitive. Plus the $3500 every year that I have to invest in new sails and worn lines (rope). This stuff adds up. My mainsheet alone would buy an apocalypse sized ork army.

[DarkLink]

I'm a college student, so everything is expensive.

But, yes, I like shooting stuff and firearms are very expensive. You can easily spend a few thousand dollars on a quality rifle and scope, and ammo adds up quickly.

[HsojVvad]

What 40k army isn't expensive?

That is true, but when GW kept telling us plastic will be so much cheaper, and finally when things come to plastic, and the price is not that just much cheaper, that is just plain greed.

All I know, those GK minis better be even better than the metal minis to be only $5 or $10 cheaper than metal.

[DarkLink]

Do not criticize GW for being a business. If you don't like the way they do things, don't buy their stuff.

[eldargal]

Quite, for my historical reenactment I have to spend at least twenty thousand pounds at least for a decent plate harness. Then factor in fabric for clothing, leather, horses, equestrian accoutrements etc. GW is my cheap hobby.:rolleyes:


If you guys think that GW is an expensive hobby then you need to go try out others.

I'm staring at a $10k boat in my driveway thats been obsoleted by a $30,000 one that I gotta buy to remain competitive. Plus the $3500 every year that I have to invest in new sails and worn lines (rope). This stuff adds up. My mainsheet alone would buy an apocalypse sized ork army.

[Xzarol]

Hmmm.

I definitely see the view that people shouldn't criticize GW for their pricing...but I'm honestly leaning more towards it's perfectly fine to do so.

I mean, if you look at the demographic they are aiming to induct, kids like that generally don't have that sort of money to spend all the time (independent of holidays and birthdays). I feel like for what they do, GW gets about as much crap and moaning as they deserve. Personally, I feel like they could release a lot more than what they do, and they could also update the rules more efficiently instead of this power creep model they have going on.

Overall...I feel like they charge pretty handsomely and then have pockets of the hobby that fall into disrepair for years and years. *Shrugs*

Regardless, I'm still a big fan of Warhammer 40K, and I will continue to purchase products. xD

Back on the topic, I hope Grey Knights come out before Summer. I would very much love to paint an awesome army up and play with it during those months. I think I may post some of my painted GKT on the other board, actually. I'm most proud of them out of all my paint jobs.

[DarkLink]

GW started their company to provide services and goods to the customer, in exchange for money. If you don't like their product, then don't buy from them. GW is under no obligation to meet customer demands, unless they want to get more money. So long as the customers keep coming, GW has done nothing wrong, as the customers are placing their stamp of approval on GW's actions by buying their products.

Put another way, GW gets to produce what they want, when they want to do it, and sell it for whatever price they want. We have no right to demand changes to any of that. On the other hand, we have a right to spend our money where we want.

Presuming, of course, that GW avoids illegal activity, but that's not really relevant to this argument.

[Xzarol]

*Shrugs* I'm well aware that Games Workshop are within their rights to produce on a level that I sometimes feel is shoddy, and that it's completely on me whether I purchase or not.

Still doesn't prevent my opinion, though. It's in my nature to give voice to my thoughts on the subject. I play the game because it's something fun and bonding I can do with my friends. That's the thing that keeps me coming back most of all.

[DarkLink]

I'm just saying there's a subtle difference between "I don't care for GW's products" or "I think GW could do a better job", and "GW owes me and they should give me products for free because if they don't they're greedy $*&%*&s". One is fine, the other isn't.

I'm not attacking you or anyone in particular, I don't want the discussion to turn into unwarranted GW bashing. GW isn't perfect, but at least in this area they're within their rights.

[Xzarol]

Ah, I see what you mean. I'm certainly in the second boat. I do enjoy the hobby.

And I do very much enjoy the hobby, especially the Imperial Guard and Inquisition! Grey Knights and Inquisitor Lords are deliciously fun.

Does anyone by chance play Dark Heresy? It's a great way to really get more intimate with the lore and give subsequent tabletop games more grandeur and scope.

[HsojVvad]

Well of course GW is within their "rights" to do what they want. I just thought GW had more morals that is all. I guess it's ok for companies to lie right infront of our face. Oh I know about business and making money, but there is also honour as well, which GW doesn't have anymore.

Also, why do some people get upset when someone says something? While some people may not like it, others have a right to express themselves just as GW has a right to do what ever they want legally to make money. So in other words we have a right to say that we don't agree with their policies.

Just because we don't agree does that mean we should go else where? Hell, I am Canadian. All we do is bend over and take it up the --- and ***** and complain and do nothing about it. So it's in our blood we just can't help it. :P

[DarkLink]

Well of course GW is within their "rights" to do what they want. I just thought GW had more morals that is all. I guess it's ok for companies to lie right infront of our face. Oh I know about business and making money, but there is also honour as well, which GW doesn't have anymore.

I don't recall GW writing me a letter saying: "Great news! We can save you money on your car insurance by switching to plastic!"

And even if they did say that, well, never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity.



Also, why do some people get upset when someone says something? While some people may not like it, others have a right to express themselves just as GW has a right to do what ever they want legally to make money. So in other words we have a right to say that we don't agree with their policies.

If someone walked around shouting "I think that the ****s were awesome and we should follow their example", how many people would you think would have something to say to that. And yes, I did just invoke Goodwin's Law.

Not that what you're saying is really bad, but just as taking certain actions is morally unacceptable speech can be unacceptable as well. Speaking is an action, after all. False accusation against someone can be just as bad as stealing candy from a baby. It can be significantly worse. Just because it's speech doesn't somehow grant the person a get-out-of-jail-free card.

If you saw someone call another person a thief, even though they aren't (at least in this particular circumstance), you would correct them, right?



Just because we don't agree does that mean we should go else where? Hell, I am Canadian. All we do is bend over and take it up the --- and ***** and complain and do nothing about it. So it's in our blood we just can't help it. :P

Yeah, well I'm American, so I get to act arrogant and self-righteous if I want:p.


Back on topic, though, as this probably isn't the place to discuss the morality of GW's business model... umm... not really any news, other than that the release slots are starting to fill up with other stuff. I don't think anyone has the slightest clue when GKs will actually be appearing, other than sometime this year.

[Duke]

Your righ darklink, this isn't the place to talk about it. There is a thread for corporate discussion. How about them grey knights?

Duke

[HsojVvad]

Well I always loved the Grey Knigts. they were my 2nd favorite, Dark Angels being my first love. I am getting excited how the new minis will look like. I just wish GW would let some pics slip out to give us a buzz.

The excitement I have for them now, is slipping away. By the time they come out, I will most likely loose interest, just like I did with the Dark Eldar. When they finally came around, I couldn't be bothered because of lack of interest. I am afraid the same will be for GK as well.

You can only keep your interest for something for so long. I am starting to loose it now that Skyrim has been anounced and Game Informer will be having a 14 page spread about it. At least I am seeing something and getting info for Skyrim. GK, nothing, so guess where all my money may go to?

But I am in the minority or below that, so GW will not change at all. They keep getting their sales no matter what it seems.
I would like to see a few pics or some info, to keep me interested at least.

[DarkLink]

I can see why GW's been trying to cut down on rumor leaks, for that very reason. They might be trying to avoid building up excitement until the last minute.

Unfortunately, we still hear enough to get people excited months early anyways. So GW should give up and tell us everything:D

[DarkLink]

Aaaand now it's official. GKs in April!

Now my only question is if actual Dreadnoughts still in the codex. We know about the dreadknight, but there's been confusion over the 'nought. Because there's a cheap used dreadnought sitting in the resale section of the lgs right now...

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

GW started their company to provide services and goods to the customer, in exchange for money. If you don't like their product, then don't buy from them. GW is under no obligation to meet customer demands, unless they want to get more money. So long as the customers keep coming, GW has done nothing wrong, as the customers are placing their stamp of approval on GW's actions by buying their products.

*gets out duelling swords*
Dude, this statement is soooo wrong! Of course GW is under an obligation to meet customer demands! They're a FTSE company, with many shareholders expecting them to deliver! If they don't listen to consumer demands, they make less sales and less profit. Listening to what consumers want in order for them to part with their money is the first rule of business! Arrogantly declaring 'you'll get what you're given' will only result in a drop in sales, something which has been reflected in their recent poor market performance over Christmas.

We all love GW figures and the worlds they have built up, but don't believe they are on an unassailable pedestal - they need to replace the lack of sales from the seriously failing Lord of the Rings range, so perhaps listening to hobbyists from the other systems would be far more sensible an idea.

While we're on the subject, I think it's a total crock that they charge so much for character miniatures - you can pay almost as much as a full unit for some of their character/monster-type units, and that is donkey balls

[Unzuul the Lascivious]

Oh yeah, Grey Knights - WOO HOO! At last! Looking forward to paying upwards of £12 for Brother Captain Stern, if they've bothered to remodel him...

[isotope99]

I don't mind so much about the character miniatures, as you're not likely to purchase as many, it's the metal units where they are either numerous (e.g. IG storm troopers) or made of multiple larger models (eldar wraithguard, Tyranid hive/tyrant guard) that get on my nerves. The current necron immortals probably take the prize for the worst offenders I can think of in this regard.

To be fair, GW are making progress towards more plastic kits for these kinds of models. Just wish it was a bit faster.

Re. The Grey Knights dreadnought, I can't see them cutting it. The general pattern with codex releases has been to substantially increase the number of available unit options, so I can't see them outright cutting anything. I wouldn't be surprised to see them move to Elites though, in line with most other SM codices. Any ideas on where the rumoured new dread knight will sit in the FOC? I had heard fast attack on some earlier rumours.

[DarkLink]

I'm hoping they don't get rid of Dreads, because I just bought a second one for cheap. Personally, I doubt they will, but the rumors are a little inconsistant. I've heard one say Dreads are heavy only, but another seemed to imply that the dreadknights walker took the place of the dreadnought.

[Tynskel]

I think the simple addition of the furioso librarian will leave the Grey Knight dread available. I could easily see the 'Frag Cannon' doubling as a 'Psycannon'.

[Galadren]

I've been looking for an excuse to get that awesome Forgeworld Mk IV Grey Knight dread with Psycannon and melee arms.

[Tynskel]

Aaaand now it's official. GKs in April!

Now my only question is if actual Dreadnoughts still in the codex. We know about the dreadknight, but there's been confusion over the 'nought. Because there's a cheap used dreadnought sitting in the resale section of the lgs right now...

APRIL FOOOOOOLLLLSSSS!

well, maybe not.

[DarkLink]

I think it would be hilarious for GW to play it off as an April Fools joke, then actually still release them.

[HsojVvad]

*edit* oops made a mistake.

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

With the current limit of available options to GK's i seriously doubt there going to drop the Dreadnoughts, its considered a stable part of the army. Just like every SM Chapter has them so to do the GK's.
Im sure they would entomb there most loyal, honoured and self sacrificing wounded to honor them and keep them fighting. I wuoldn't be suprised to see 3 varients of styles of Dreadnoughts this time. Even a Librarian Dread.
As for plastic over metal, well besides special characters i think we will be seeing a whole range of plastics this time for the GK's, termies and everything.

Hold a thought for SoB players still, that have never had a plastic miniature to date. Its very expensive for us players. Do you know how much 6 Penitant Engines cost me?? $330 AUS.

Grey Knights are going to be a good new army to mix it up a little. Sure there SM's with Santified armour, and blah blah blah,but still with there unique play style and costs, are significantly different and play style than others.
Atleast you wont have to fork over more as your going to still need less i think.

[Laodamia]

Hey everyone, I just read something really strange in Lexicanum.
Yesterday, I read a new article about something called sector 13. Apparently, it consists of a special, elite force of GK equipped with standard power armor along with some cloaking gear and brand new equipment so that they can perform infiltration missions within SM chapters in search for renegades.

Unfortunately, this new article in Lexicanum has just been deleted, so I can't post the link for this page.

My questions are:
Has anyone else read this strange article?
Has anyone heard about something called "sector 13" or something like that before in W40K?
Is it a leak from the new GK codex (which could explain why this article has been deleted)?
Is it just a completely irrelevant and false article writen by some idiot in Lexicanum (which could also explain why this article has been deleted so quickly)?

What do you guys think about it?

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

Hmm Infilitrating GK's, guess they get the scout rules with potential deep strike rules for being stealthy. Wait and see i guess.

Nope never heard of that before.

[plawolf]

Section 13? Sounds like something out of Star Trek :p

[DarkLink]

Pretty sure Lexicanum is a horrible source.

[Laodamia]

I agree, there are good chances that this article was nothing more than some kind of bad joke.
But still, since GW will soon release an entire codex for grey knights, they will certainly get new units and models.

A force of "covert operations" Grey Knights could be a good idea. So far, the only minis for GK are termies, one type of power armour GK and (if properly converted) dreads, rhinos and land raiders. It is a bit weak for an entire army list. So there is probably room for this "section 13", if it really exists. Maybe as a fast attack or elite unit...?

What do you think about it? What kind of new models would you guys like to see released for a GK army? Personnally, I think that special land raiders and dreads would be nice for the Grey Knights. Some new models with psycannon and special iconography could be a nice alternative for FW's over-priced conversion kits.

[DarkLink]

I would like to see some scouting stuff in the codex, especially something with psycannons. Four rending str 7 shots to side armor? Heck, yes.

Incidentally, I'd like to see the option to replace the LR heavy bolter with a psycannon. Because two TL lascannons and the above mentioned psycannon is a heck of a tank hunter.

[Shyft]

The inclusion of the Storm Raven... I have mixed feelings about it. Looking at the Blood Angels entry, I'm drooling at the anti-tank and fire support potential. But on the other hand, it implies to me that they'll remove Deep Striking from Power Armor GKs.

I dunno.

[isotope99]

Unless this is a Dark Eldar sized release, you are looking at 3-4 plastic kits plus some metal.

With plastic Power and Terminator armoured knights likely to take up the first two, this doesn't leave much space.

The 'dread knight' is rumoured to be a new model (a mix of terminator and dreadnought) which I'd expect to be plastic.

With the storm raven as a semi-GK release that may be all that we get on the plastic model front.

[plawolf]

I hope the release the SR as part of the BA second wave and throw in a GK dred box. But considering that there is a new plastic furisio in the BA second wave, and with the normal, iron clad and venerable dreds already in plastic, I really cannot see them releasing yet another plastic dred. Oh, might just have to bit the bullet and get a FW one or three.

Maybe they will release a GK oriented razorback/Land raider/Dred upgrade pack with a few TL psycannons and incinerators and GK iconography and dred special arms thrown in. But thats probably way too sensible and generous a thing for GW to do.

I wonder what the chances are the dreadknight be able able to ride the dred grapple on the SR. That would be pretty sweet to be able to get a MC into the enemy's face rather quickly.

[DarkLink]

The inclusion of the Storm Raven... I have mixed feelings about it. Looking at the Blood Angels entry, I'm drooling at the anti-tank and fire support potential. But on the other hand, it implies to me that they'll remove Deep Striking from Power Armor GKs.


GK troops never had deepstrike in the first place. You either got to score, or deepstrike, and scoring is usually more important that being able to deepstrike.

Regardless, all rumors point to the expansion of the GK's ability to teleport, rather than the reverse.

[shrike]

LOL. There's a rumour down at warseer that the Jokaero will make an appearance in C:GK.:D

[DarkLink]

So I ran some numbers on str 6 vs str 4 power weapons. I neglected the force weapon ability for simplicity's sake, though you should keep it in mind as it is very useful against certain units (like nob bikerz or twolf cavalry). These are all based on the assumption that the GK caused exactly one hit.

I also ignored invulnerable saves, for now. An invulnerable save would budge things in the str 6 nfw direction.

Against T 3, str 6 is only better against 6+ save, and then only by ~.02 failed saves per wound caused.

Against T 4, power weapons are better vs 3+ and 4+ armor, slightly worse (.05 fewer wounds) against 5+ saves, and .19 few wounds less against 6+ saves. Not bad at all, keeping in mind that GK storm bolters and incinerators are great against hordes.

Against T 5, str 4 power weapon is better vs 3+ armor, equal vs 4+, and worse vs 5/6+ armor.

Against T 6, str 4 breaks even against 3+ armor, and is worse against 4/5/6+ armor. Most T6 units have 3+ armor, however, and also tend to have multiple wounds, meaning the force weapon ability is a big advantage here. Assuming there's no eternal warrior, that is...


Two other things to keep in mind: Grey Knights are supposedly getting more attacks. This means that even though str 4 is very slightly worse against T4 with a 5+ save, overall the new GKs will cause more wounds because they have more attacks. Plus, if you have 20pt GKs instead of 25pts, you'll get a lot more attacks there as well. And more storm bolters and wounds. Secondly, against basically anything with FNP that is greater than T3, str 4 power weapons are better. It doesn't matter for T3 because both str 6 and power weapons ignore fnp in that case.




All in all, the majority of the time basic GKs will be more potent in CC, despite losing str 6. Against certain units, like plague Marines, GKs are significantly better now. In addition, the majority of the cases in which str 6 would have been better, such as against ork hordes, the GKs have other tools that allow them to win anyways. Who needs to kill tons of orks in CC when you can hit them with stormbolters and incinerators first, then assault what little remains?

Moral of the story is, str 4 force weapon GKs for 20pts are significantly better in CC than str 6 Gks for 25pts in the vast majority of circumstances.

[Shyft]

I was simply refering to PAGK as the model type, not the unit entry, i'm well aware that you can as of 3e have them Fast Attack and Not score, or footslog as Troops and score. Which is yes, more important. I do hope they include deep-striking tropps.

[isotope99]

I really can't see them giving actual character/monster killing force weapons to every guy.

Otherwise, good analysis.

[DarkLink]

I'm slightly hesitant as well. I can easily see them doing it, personally, and every source so far has stated "force weapons", but I'm still wondering if they mean exactly the standard "power weapon that causes instant death on a leadership test" force weapon. I find it likely that they do, but I'd be irritated if it turns out that they don't get the power weapon part or something.

I would, however, not be too surprised if they had some way of simplifying the force weapon rules. If they were to work like they do normally, you would have to roll each and every GK models attacks separately against any multi-wound models.

[Mkvenner]

Well with how it sounds. I think that the Justicar will be able to do the actual ability of the Force Weapon. Otherwise, I like to think of it as being similar to the Psyker Battle Squad. The whole unit is a bunch of psykers but must rely on each other to cast a psychic power. Otherwise you would really have to keep tabs on your dice rolls for each GK, which would be a little bit on the annoying side if you ask me.

Just my two cents.

[synack]

It's been stated/rumoured that the GK squads will be psykers, but work in a similar method to the IG psyker battle squad.

This has me believe they test for powers as a squad. So if the whole squad has FW's, then what will probably happen is, if there is at least 1 unsaved wound, then the squad as whole does a psychic test, if passed, that wound is ID. Only one test will be allowed, as per normal FW rules.

[plawolf]

It's been stated/rumoured that the GK squads will be psykers, but work in a similar method to the IG psyker battle squad.

This has me believe they test for powers as a squad. So if the whole squad has FW's, then what will probably happen is, if there is at least 1 unsaved wound, then the squad as whole does a psychic test, if passed, that wound is ID. Only one test will be allowed, as per normal FW rules.

Well that would take a lot of the gloss off of the 'everyone gets FWs' carrot to make up for loosing S6. But it sounds about right from both a practicality and balance POV. If every guy has a FW, then any multi-wound model that gets into CC with a reasonably large squad of PAGKs is odds on to get IDed, which would be pretty frustrating I'd expect.

If they do apply FW like that, I hope they add an extra special rule, like making the Justicar's FW also ignore Inv saves. That would work a treat against daemons, and would be less broken than making all NFW FWs that also ignore Inv, but would make up for the nerf to the FWs.

However, since I'm a massive GK fan, Im not sure how objective I am being here. :p

[synack]

Well that would take a lot of the gloss off of the 'everyone gets FWs' carrot to make up for loosing S6. But it sounds about right from both a practicality and balance POV. If every guy has a FW, then any multi-wound model that gets into CC with a reasonably large squad of PAGKs is odds on to get IDed, which would be pretty frustrating I'd expect.

If they do apply FW like that, I hope they add an extra special rule, like making the Justicar's FW also ignore Inv saves. That would work a treat against daemons, and would be less broken than making all NFW FWs that also ignore Inv, but would make up for the nerf to the FWs.

However, since I'm a massive GK fan, Im not sure how objective I am being here. :p

Don't worry, I'm a big fan too. Had the army for year, but trying to be objective myself.

I can't see it ignoring invuns. If they get anything it'll be something re-rolling failed saves, but I expect you'll pay for it. Thats just a guess tho, I doubt we'll see anything like that.

[plawolf]

Don't worry, I'm a big fan too. Had the army for year, but trying to be objective myself.

I can't see it ignoring invuns. If they get anything it'll be something re-rolling failed saves, but I expect you'll pay for it. Thats just a guess tho, I doubt we'll see anything like that.

Would it be that much to ask for?

A squad based power test is quite a significant difference from individuals not only in the massive reduction in potential number of FW uses, but also from a perils POV, as with a squad based power, EVERY member of the squad gets a perils hit instead of just one guy with a normal FW.

Thats a pretty big drawback if you ask me.

Unless they give GK some special rule to fix that, the FW might not be worth risking using most of the time.

The main reason I want GK justicars to be able to ignore Inv is from a fluff POV as GKs should kick *** against daemons, but they won't really in CC with PW (aka Nerfed FWs).

If they gave NFW the option of either ignoring armor or Inv, that might be a good compromise.

That means models with an Inv save will get a save (unless they have no armor rating at all, but only the lowliest models get an Inv and no armor, so shouldn't cause too many silly situations). Against most armies, their models would have a better armor save than Inv, so in effect they still get their Inv save at least.

However, against daemons that tend to have good Inv but poor armor, GKs would really shine and reflect the fluff, and also give GKs a little boost against certain other armies.

[synack]

Would it be that much to ask for?

A squad based power test is quite a significant difference from individuals not only in the massive reduction in potential number of FW uses, but also from a perils POV, as with a squad based power, EVERY member of the squad gets a perils hit instead of just one guy with a normal FW.


I doubt the whole squad will take perils, at worst it'll be d3/d6 models, like the IG psyker squads do, but I think it may simply be 1 model.

[Calypso2ts]

If they are all Psykers can you imagine how good an allied Culexus Assassin would be from the WH codex...

[synack]

If they are all Psykers can you imagine how good an allied Culexus Assassin would be from the WH codex...

Or that new unit/model/thing/wargear from the DE codex.

It's so situational, I wouldn't see it as much of a worry.

[DarkLink]

A squad based power test is quite a significant difference from individuals not only in the massive reduction in potential number of FW uses, but also from a perils POV, as with a squad based power, EVERY member of the squad gets a perils hit instead of just one guy with a normal FW.


Remember, this would still be a big step forward from what GKs currently have, so I wouldn't complain about it.

[plawolf]

If they are all Psykers can you imagine how good an allied Culexus Assassin would be from the WH codex...

Why would they need a WH Culexus when the new GKs should be able to take multiple Culxuses from their own codex?

[plawolf]

Remember, this would still be a big step forward from what GKs currently have, so I wouldn't complain about it.

Yes its no use getting too worked up before we even know what the rules will finally be. ;)

[Shyft]

I don't mean to wishlist, but thinking about the NFW thing, here's more or less how I'd do it:

Assault resolves and all wounds have saves made, some fail. The GK player makes a psychic test. If they past the test, the opposing unit suffers D3/D6 Instant Death effects.

Now thinking about it, I imagine the Force Weapon function, if any, would be more for the tough, monstrous creatures, not anything like squads. You have power weapons and storm bolters for them.

[DarkLink]

Look what I found on warseer:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/skyysilver/1295624923258.jpg

Note the psycannons on top

[DrLove42]

Are they Pyscannons? Look more like plasma cannons to me...with the blue "core" on display

Edit - Yep i'm pretty sure they're plasma

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m252/drlove42/m1620068a_99120101088_Stormraven02_445x319.jpg

[isotope99]

Look what I found on warseer:


Note the psycannons on top

Pretty sure they are plasma cannons :(

[Defenestratus]

Look what I found on warseer:

<snip>

Note the psycannons on top

Looks like a plasma cannon the top turret.

[Shyft]

well, from a purely gamist perspective, I would adore plasma cannons in my GK army.... Though I never recall if plasma cannons on vehicles suffer the Gets Hot rule. Anyway.

[DrLove42]

No they don't get hot. Vehicle carries adequate cooling

[DarkLink]

Awww, a psycannon would have been cooler...

The problem with plasma cannons in a GK army is that they aren't that great at killing tanks. And since it seems that Storm Ravens tend to die fairly early, you probably won't get a chance to use a plasma cannon to its full effect. We'll see when the actual codex comes out, though.

[Shyft]

that's true of course, but i tend to hvae more problems with horde armies than mech lists. (Well, mech-heavy IG is a problem.)

I would at the very least like the option of template-y death.

[Deadlift]

Yeah just checked the sprues and I cant see any psycannons, however they would have been very very cool.

[plawolf]

More reason to swop out the top turret and use a razorback on. Then you would get some FW psycannons, although I hope GK SRs can take psycannons...

[DarkLink]

Supposedly Blood of Kittens has some more GK rumors to give out sometime tomorrow. I don't have a membership, but it won't matter because it'll be about thirty seconds before they're all over warseer and heresy online.

[synack]

You guys are slacking...

From BOK


"The Grey Knights are getting a new unit or they are getting an upgrade that causes an automatic hit to any enemy model in base-to-base with them. This hit wounds on a 4+ regardless of enemies toughness with normal saves allowed and occurs before ALL attacks (think old mandiblasters), but still adds to combat resolution at the end of combat.

This should help against horde armies with low armour saves I would think.

[isotope99]

Sounds like a replacement for the holocaust power.

[Defenestratus]

You guys are slacking...

From BOK



This should help against horde armies with low armour saves I would think.

This makes my banshees cry.

[DarkLink]

This makes me happy.

[Force21]

This makes me happy.

+1


this is really going to help them with hordes.

[plawolf]

I'm not too sure this power is aimed at hoards. It would seem to work best against elite CC specialists with high I and BS but average/poor armour saves.

Would be pretty effective against Eldar and Dark Eldar as well as Daemons, MCs will might also be scared depending on the wording. If its just a hit from the entire squad, it would be pretty meh against MCs, but its its a hit per each GK that is btb with the MC, than that could be pretty brutal.

[Force21]

"The Grey Knights are getting a new unit or they are getting an upgrade that causes an automatic hit to any enemy model in base-to-base with them. This hit wounds on a 4+ regardless of enemies toughness with normal saves allowed and occurs before ALL attacks (think old mandiblasters), but still adds to combat resolution at the end of combat.


it sounds like the whole squad.... :D

[Shyft]

This is vaguely terrifying. And I'm the one who would actually get to use this stuff.

[plawolf]

it sounds like the whole squad.... :D

Well that just sound sick, especially with GKTs and their large bases as you might be able to get multiple GKs in BtB with the same hostile model thus giving multiple hits on it. Could thus be used to 'snipe' characters or upgraded guys before they have a chance to do anything...

[isotope99]

Well that just sound sick, especially with GKTs and their large bases as you might be able to get multiple GKs in BtB with the same hostile model thus giving multiple hits on it. Could thus be used to 'snipe' characters or upgraded guys before they have a chance to do anything...

Not convinced, far more likely that you just count up the number of models in base 2 base with grey knights and then inflict that many hits. Of course speculating on the detail of vague rumours is pretty pointless.

In either event, I expect some tactica article on how to pull off an oblique charge that minimises B2B while maximising engaged models within 2 inches.

[DarkLink]

In either event, I expect some tactica article on how to pull off an oblique charge that minimises B2B while maximising engaged models within 2 inches.

I do this pretty regularly in order to avoid having to go through difficult terrain. You deploy 1-2 models of a unit out of a Land Raider within 6" and a straight shot at an exposed model, then take advantage of 2" coherency to guarantee the rest of your unit is just outside of 6". You should be able to get everyone into 2" attack range, but only your front few models will actually be base after your opponent consolidates.

[DarkLink]

To anyone who thinks the Dreadknight rumors sound stupid:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/at/at2/2011/2/2/f33f7cc991d577a7365e6cd607c26019_30356.jpg


As far as I know, this is not GW concept art or anything special. Just a picture I found on Dakka. But it looks pretty awesome.

[oiad]

Paint. It. Grey!

Really like it and it actually looks Imperial. Hopefully GW had similar ideas and aspirations...

[synack]

Pulled from warseer


Grand Master rumoured to pick D3 units during deployment and giving them a special rule:
Makes them scoring (kinda neat for dread and or elite paladins)
Makes them re roll 1s to wound all game
Makes them have counter attack USR.
Makes them Scout
All these units are affected by the one choice.

Terminators equipped with frag and krack grenades.

The big ones for me are the scout ability and the scoring ability. If you can give it to any unit, that means you could have scouting stormravens.

[DarkLink]

That's awesome:D.

It also matches up with earlier rumors. Someone mentioned that the Grand Master gets to hand out D3 rules, they just didn't say what the rules were at the time.

[DarkLink]

Here's some more, from the same guy:


Originally Posted by Marshal Augustine
Special Characters:
Lord "Draigo" LR cost.
Grand Master "Mordrack" Storm Raven Cost
Brother Captain Stern
Castellan Crowe

HQ/
Grand Master
Brother Captain
Brotherhood Champion
Librarian
Inquisitor Corteaz
Inquisitor Karamazov
Inquisitor Valeria
Ordo Malleus Inquisitor
Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor
Ordo Xenos Inquisitor

Elites/
Techmarine
Purifier Squad
Venerable Dreadnought
Paladin Squad
Callidus
Eversor
Vindicare
Culexus
Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband

Troops/
Grey Knight Terminator Squad
Special Upgrade Character - Justicar Thawn
Grey Knights Strike Squad (the regular GK's)

Transports:
Rhino
Razorback
Chimera

Fast/
StormRaven

Heavy Support/
Purgation Squad
Dreadnought
Nemesis Dreadknight (MC)
Land Raider (and variants, including redeemer)

Bindi Baji on Heresy online did have this to say, however:


I haven't seen the codex yet, well at least not inside,
but I can state that there are at least 3 bits on this "authentic" list that are as authentic as a red herring

[DarkLink]

And a few more bits:


Wargear that has been listed that rules are unknown:

Psyke-out grenades.
Brotherhood Banner (terminator and paladin squads)

Paladins = 2 wounded terminators (they can have an apothecary in the squad)

Purifiers = Grey Knights that have a lot of anti horde options, they are the ones with the power that will do a wound on every engaged enemy model in cc on 4+.

No drop pod. But GK strike squads are supposed to be able to take personal teleporters. This makes them jump infantry. And once per game it is rumored to allow them to make a 30" move, just move... not a on table deep strike. they Can shoot when they do this, but not charge.

Incidentally, while Marshall isn't one of the big name rumor guys, he has chimed in in the past, and supposedly been fairly accurate.

[jorz192]

Ordo Xenos inquisitors but no death watch? To bad/:

[synack]

The things that don't look right to me are the Librarian, Venerable dread and the Techmarine. Then again, techmarines seem to be present in all marine codexes now days, so who knows.

Otherwise it all looks good. Looks like I should get to building that Karamazov model I have.

[DarkLink]

Ordo Xenos inquisitors but no death watch? To bad/:

This is a Grey Knight codex, after all.

[GrenAcid]

This is a Grey Knight codex, after all.

Yeah dude, so Ordo Hereticus is in right place.

[DarkLink]

They had to have something to make all those inquisitorial players happy, even if the Inquisition belongs in Dark Heresy rather than 40k.

Anyways, when it rains it pours:


Ok where to start?

I have not heard or seen anything relating to weapons/wargear yet. So no dice on that one.

The assassins have one singular "fluff" entry, that states their generic rules... 6+ FNP, Dodge Save etc... and then one page with the rules for each one (i think) stating wargear and rules. I do not believe they take up a slot.

Inquisitors are about the cost of a current GK.

Nemesis force weapons ( I have no idea)... units are armed with nemesis swords. And units can upgrade any models to have force halberds at xpoints. the Halberd I believe adds 1 Initiative.

No libby dread. But all GK vehicles are phykers... their go to power is to "cure" shaken or stunned at the start of a GK turn.

Dreadknight:
t7 w4 2+sv/ 4+inv with lots of weapon upgrades including the heavy psycannon and super incinerator.

Dreadknight cost of vendetta:
MC, Dreadknight armour as armour (deepstrike 2+sv/4++) So im assuming he is a buffed up terminator Mephyston style. Can be given a personal teleporter (making him jump infantry and move up to 30" once per game for about the cost of a Dark Angel Land Speeder Typhoon)..
S7 WS 5

3A and 2 CC.

No restrictions of that nature when it comes to the henchmen.

The unit is 3-12 and does not take up an elite.
ArcoFlagelant - FNP, CCwpn
Banisher- Can take eviscerator, units of deamons within 6" of him re roll succesful inv saves (ala nullzone)
Crusader- PW, SShield
Deamonhost- Lots of crazy stuff. No time to elaborate now.
DeathcultAssassin- 5+ invul, 2 PW.
Servitor- cheap, come with HB or MMelta for free. Can upgrade to PC (up to 3) will mindlock if no inquisitor is present.
WeaponSmith- Mini obliterator ( can pick, lascannon, mmelta, hflamer) Also adds bonus to the unit roll d6 add +1 for each after first.
1- no effect
2- +12" to the range of all guns
3- armoursaves improved by one
4- all shooting weapons are rending.
5- all models gain 5+ invul
6- "the works" roll twice on the table, apply both results. No result can be taken twice.
Mystic- basically a living teleport homer.
Psyker- power is the blast weapon power form the IG PBS.
WarriorAcolyte- guardsman grunt.

The inquisitors are one statline. The different options are just wargear and upgrades that fit their role.

No wargear rules.

Special rules

ATSKNF
Combat Squads
Aegis (units targeted by powers, enemy psyker at -1ld for test) Units within 12" of a GK dreadnought targetted by powers psyker is at -4 "reinforced aegis"

No shrouding. As far as I know... but now GK's can have rhinos and razorbacks.

No stormtroopers as far as I know.

lol.

Gk

44441418 3+ at 1/5 of 100pts each.

Termies
44441429 terminator armour. 200pts for 5...

Paladins are Ws5

grrr.

55pts

apoth + 75. min squad size of 1.

GhostKnights are also in. (terminators with stealth that are upgrade retinue for one of the special characters, his rules are fun, for every wound he takes another terminator is added to the squad to "protect" him hehe.

Edit: Imagine an all terminator army, where d3 units may reroll all 1's (including armor saves :D).

Edit: Even moar!!

Edit: The rules are awesome, but having standard Marine statline is retarded. They go from being elite, bad@$$ marines with awesome equipment, to marines with awesome equipment. Should have kept WS 5 and gotten 2 attacks base. Terminators are still sweet, though.

[Duke]

These rumours sound really great... I can't say how stoked I am to get my grey knight/ custodes army on the table!

Duke

[DarkLink]

The vast majority of the stuff looks great. But dropping WS5 is stupid. Though I'll be perfectly happy if all GKs end up with power weapons. But if they really are just standard Marine stats, they'd better get power weapons.

From Heresy Online


Storm Raven is 5pts more than BA counterpart. But has psy power that allows it to ignore shaken and stunned.

also a lot of units can be upgraded with psybolt ammunition. Whatever that is... 20pts for the entire unit of GK's

Purgation Squads are HS... their special psypower is being able to shoot at units out of LOS.

And they have a lot of guns.

The terminator upgrade character special rule "i shall not yield" basically a 4+ WWB for the character.

purgation... same as before... 4 weapons, 20pt psycannon, free incinerators, and psilencers (whatever those are)
Cost of GK unit as they are GK's, just with weapons.

The GK psyker rule states that the justicar is the one to take the hit. If not then one randomly determined member does. anything that targets psykers specifically.

No storm shields that I know of.

Holocaust. And hammerhand (holocaust is s5 large blast at 12" weapon).

1- ATSKNF
- Combat Squads
- The Aegis
- Psyker Pilots
- Brotherhood of psykers
- Psyker Mastery Levels
- Preferred Enemy Deamons
2. 443334310 4+ Stubborn, IC. (25pts)
3. So far i don't know... other than the inquisitorial henchmen mobs, and the dreadnoughts/landraiders/stormravens. Squad based AT seems limited.

Callidus- 145
Eversor- 130
Culexus-135
Vindicare- 145

(Inquisitor special character)
Inquisitor Stats with some special abilities.

Dijin Blade (literally,just called something else)
Some forcefield and a cool. Lucas the trickster style ability based on a remaining wounds test... or die.

Yes, paladins are indeed 2 wounded terminator armour greyknights. With allocation (thanks to wargear) they will be a tough unit... and for +15 points over a regular terminator! yes please... and the grand master can make them scoring oh yes!.

No gizmos to re roll saves... although there are these "brotherhood banners" for units.. so who knows maybe a re roll all ones a la spacewolf?


Another dude also had some stuff to add:



There is a nasty special character with a storm shield but SS seems to be lacking on a whole.

Draigo is a GK Grandmaster and is very nasty. (Eternal, t5, 5 attacks, psyker mastery 2, strength 10 sword vs daemons/psykers

Squad granted initiative 10
-Jaws like power which removes models from play without any save. template vs line, but no MC modifier for initiative
-selected unit is grabbed and brought near libby with deep strike rules
-Power which makes units within certain range take difficult/dangerous terrain test.

Vindicare was very memorable....pick out opponents models for would allocation, can take out Inv save....for the entire game. Always wounds on 2+

I don't recall a save re-roller.

Only friendly unit grabbed and moved.



Edit:

how useful do you see PAGK being?

IMO very useful. Their power against deep strikers it better than the old mystics... two squads spread out give you a good 48" bubble of anti deep striking shenannigans... means your land raiders will be safe from DS'ing meltaguns... etc. The storm bolters make them good torrent of fire units and supported by dreadnoughts, and librarians with awesome powers.. they will the the grunts of the force and they are cheaper than they used to be... and can be upgraded to fulfill different roles... with a full 10 man squad comming in at 200pts I think they are an absolute bargain.

Paladin Options:
Force Halberds
Nemesis Deamon Hammers
Pair of Nemesis Falcions
Nemesis Warding Stave
Psycannon
Incinerators
Psylencers
Apothecary
Banner of Brotherhood
Entire unit can have psybolt ammunition
Any model can make any weapon Master Crafted at +5 pts per weapon.

Yes, paladins look quite nice. The Ghost terminators are nice as well. With stealth.... they are bought as an upgrade retinue to another special character and are 32pts a piece. And when the character takes a wound... (i think he has 3 or 4) then another terminator arrives out of nowhere to protect him... hehe.


@ Vhalyar
3 named inquisitors Valeria,coteaz and karamazov. Coteaz is a daemon hunter inq, kara is the witch hunter and val is the xenos inq. They are armed acordingly.
Deamon hosts are in as henchmen as are death cult assassins and psykers.
An inquisitor (not sure if its named or not) takes 3-12 henchmen

8 8 4 4 2 7 4 10 4+ Assassin stat line.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

1 fast attack option. the storm raven. cost 205 points ???? not sure why.

Only 2 troop choices and they are not IST

[Dagron XIII]

Edit: The rules are awesome, but having standard Marine statline is retarded. They go from being elite, bad@$$ marines with awesome equipment, to marines with awesome equipment. Should have kept WS 5 and gotten 2 attacks base. Terminators are still sweet, though.

I think the stat line is acceptabe. The problem with the last codex is that each GK cost 25 pts with 25 pts more for the Justicar. They had to lessen something to lower the cost. Besides, these guys still have aegis armor, psychic powers, power weapons, etc. They still seem pretty elite to me :D

[DarkLink]

As long as they get power weapons I'm ok with it. But I'd rather have had them 25pts with WS 5, 2A and Fearless than 20pts without. It's more that their equipment is awesome, and not the Knights themselves, whereas the current Knights feel awesome because they're Grey Knights, and they just happen to get cool equipment.

Seeing how the Terminators and Paladins and the like are looking, however, I'm happy with everything else.

Except losing fearless. That sucks.




Psychic powers:


Ok time for more:
GK psypowers:
Smite- See C:SM

Quicksilver- Begining of own movement. Unit within 6" gains I 10 till end of turn.

Warp-Rift- Flamer Template JOTWW

Might of Titan- Beggining of librarians assault phase. Unit within 6" gains +1 str and extra D6 armour pen vs vehicles. Bonus is cumulative with hammerhand (yes, that means that S6 2D6 armour pen GK's is a go!..)

The Shrouding- Opponents shooting phase. All units within 6" benefit from stealth. And have 6+ cover even if in the open (so 5+ in the open and 3+ in most other cases)

Mind Blades- Start of any assault phase. Pick enemy unit within 6", they loose 1 toughness for the remainder of the assault.

Vortex of Doom- see C:SM

Sanctuary- Any enemy assault phase. Enemy units assaulting any GK unit within 12" of the librarian treat all terrain (including open ground) and difficult and dangerous terrain.

The Summoning- Librarian movement. Pick a friendly non vehicle unit. Place them within 6" of the librarian using the DS rules. any friendly unit on the battlefield not locked in combat.

oh wait, more you say!:

Librarian (mastery level 2) 150pts Can upgrade to level 3 for +50:
Each purchased power is +5 pts, but he comes with hammerhand for free.

each level [of psychic mastery] is number of powers you can use per turn.



With respect to marshal, even Harry gets some things wrong once in a great while.

Don't think they are the same as the current version [teleporting FA unit], they don't deepstrike on turn 1, though they can, it's similair to the upgrade ability Marshal showed, with a few extras (On top of being able to deepstrike on turn 1 that is). (what those extras are, my contact didn't know.)

I'm going to second marshal on most of this, I have heard very similair things and I think he is closer to the truth than Stickmonkey currently is.

Time will tell if we are correct, of course.

Emphasis and some comments are mine, for context and coolness. All those frikin psychic powers are awesome. Dual Libriarians might just be mandatory to fit all that awesomeness in.

[Dagron XIII]

I can understand that. But if it makes you feel any better, remember that their nemisis weapons are only power weapons because of their psychic bad assery and their psychic powers make them even better (or more elite if you will). Looking at it from this angle (I do like to stay optimistic :D ), they are far from regular smurfs and are definately "elite."

However, I hope that you don't mind that disagree with you that WS5 and 2A would only cost 5 extra pts, especially if they are wielding nemesis power weapons. That sort of combination (especially if they do still keep true grit in some fasion) would make them WAY too good in combat but still so costly through shooting.

I too mourn the loss of fearless. I could forgive it were they Ld 9 or 10 but at Ld 8 (Ld 9 with Justicar)? No, it is a sad day indeed. Perhaps the GM will increase their Ld or something...if only it were April!

[DarkLink]

However, I hope that you don't mind that disagree with you that WS5 and 2A would only cost 5 extra pts, especially if they are wielding nemesis power weapons.

Meh, the cost is details. Though I was meaning for the 2A to replace True Grit. Fearless and WS5 just set them apart as awesome Marines with awesome equipment. Now they're just Marines with awesome equipment, at least at this level. Of course, we haven't seen the actual rules yet, so I'm not despairing.



I too mourn the loss of fearless. I could forgive it were they Ld 9 or 10 but at Ld 8 (Ld 9 with Justicar)? No, it is a sad day indeed. Perhaps the GM will increase their Ld or something...if only it were April!

Yeah, this is what I just don't get. I mean, I can understand the lower leadership so you don't have 5+ Ld 10 psykers on the board, but dropping Fearless? Really? Now GKs will be running away more often than normal Marines. And Grey Knights never falter. Ever. An no one better try and justify it with some crap about "oh, they're not running away, they're being tactical". Fearless means always being in control of your models, which is what the Grey Knights above all other Marine chapters should have, even at the cost of No Retreat. It should never be possible to chase a unit of Grey Knights off the board. Ever.

Now if they can choose to pass or fail their leadership... that I could get behind:D.

[Duke]

Pass fail leadership would be stupid broken... I think GK are going to take time to unlock the codex, there are just so many cool toys!

Duke

[Dagron XIII]

GK Grand Master Powers (level1)
Hammerhand
Psychic communion - take test, if successfull GK player can modify reserve rolls by +1 or -1 and you can choose to modify after each roll.

Brother Captain (level 1)
Same

Brotherhood Champion (level 1)
Hammerhand
Heroic Sacrifice- during either players assault phase, when the "chaplain" is taken off as a casualty. Is passed, make one attack against any one model that he was in B2B with. If the attack hits, the model is also removed as a casualty with no saves... if the attack misses then no effect. Remember he is WS 7...

Terminators-
Hammerhand

Strike Squads-
Hammerhand
Warp Quake- Start of GK movement phase, lasts till GK start of next movement. All enemy teleport homers stop working, any enemy unit that deep strikes within 12" of the strike squad will suffer a mishap.

Purgation Squads-
HH
Astral Aim- Shooting Phase, unit and attached characters may fire at any unit in range regardless of LOS. Target automatically gains 4+ cover that can't be modified.

Paladins:
HH
Holocaust- 12" Str5 Ap- Large Blast

Purifier Squad:
HH
Cleansing Flame- Start of the assault in any player turn. All enemy -models- that are a part of the same assault suffer a wound on a 4+ before any blows are struck. Casualties count towards combat resolution.

Techmarine (mastery 1)
HH
Reconstruction- Start of TM movement, may re roll any repair roll.

Rhino-Razorback/
Fortitude- if passed (at start of GK turn) Nullifies any shaken stunned results.

Dreadknight-
HH
Holocaust

Dreadnoughts-
Fortitude (see rhino)

Land Raiders-
Fortitude (ibid)

Storm Raven same...

Brother Captain Stern Level 2:
HH
Communion
Zone of Banishment: During his assault phase. All models friend and foe, within D6" (not stern), must take a strength test or be dragged into the warp... deamons re roll successful tests. These casualties do not count towards combat.

Castellan Crowe Level 1:
HH
Heroic Sacrifice
Cleansing Flame

Inquisitors are not psykers.

Inquisitor Corteaz (100pts) Mastery 2:
HH
Sanctuary
Mind Blades

There, thats all I have.

Marshall Augustine

This is it for me. Off to be now :D

[DarkLink]

Yeah, I'm seeing a lot of stuff with some great potential. There will be a lot of noob whining about how broken everything is, though. And like usual I'm betting most of it will be completely wrong.

[eldargal]

Purgation Squads are HS... their special psypower is being able to shoot at units out of LOS

I don't like the sound of this, it seems ripe for abuse. If I have a unit that is blocked from a LOS by a large building, hill etc. they can still be shot at? I get the idea in principle, I could see it negating cover saves but if this ability lets them effectively shoot through things that just seems ridiculous. Perhaps I'm missing something, and needless to say I won't be getting too concerned until I see it in the actual codex.

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

Well with GW who knows, look what they did with the BA dreadnought harpoon. It can effectively drag a Titan towards it by there rules. So who is to say they won't have the ability.
For me, i think it would be stupid, but ignoring cover saves would be more appropriate.

[isotope99]

Mostly pretty good, but a few gripes:

I hope the nemesis weapons upgrade from swords to halberds is wrong, I currently have a mix of them in my unit and anyone with an existing GK army is going to be effectively blackmailed into paying for the upgrade if they want to be WYSIWYG compliant as they almost all currently have halberds.

I'd also be surprised if stormtroopers are gone for good (I think making them like wracks in the DE codex would be best i.e. elites unless an inquisitor is taken).

... and no more jaws style 'removing from play' :mad: stick with the instant death mechanic.

[Shyft]

does anyone have any better idea of what the Psycannon stats are? I honestly can't believe they're Str 7 Rending Ignores invul saves.

[synack]

I don't like the sound of this, it seems ripe for abuse. If I have a unit that is blocked from a LOS by a large building, hill etc. they can still be shot at? I get the idea in principle, I could see it negating cover saves but if this ability lets them effectively shoot through things that just seems ridiculous. Perhaps I'm missing something, and needless to say I won't be getting too concerned until I see it in the actual codex.

It's rumoured that any unit shot with this power will automatically get a 4+ cover save, even if they out in the open.

[eldargal]

Well that balances it considerably.:)