1500 DE list for tourney

[Brycec13]

Revised list:I am toying around with the new DE and have a tournament im going to try this list out just wanted some input.

Hq 60pts
Haemonculus w liquifier

Elites 504pts
3x 4 trueborn(3 blasters,1 splintercannon in venom with two splinter cannon)

Troops 575pts
8 wracks w liquifier + acothyst with agonizer in raider with flickerfield
3x 5 kabalite warriors with blaster in venom with 2x splinter cannon

Heavy 360pts
2x Ravagers with 3 dark lances, night shield and flickerfield
1 Talos with TL liquifier and TL haywire blaster

wracks with haemoculus for cc with talos (slowly)
12 blasters 7 dark lances haywire blaster for AT
15 splinter cannons for AI

46 models
18 kp?

[newtoncain]

I am toying around with the new DE and have a tournament im going to try this list out just wanted some input.

Hq 150pts
Haemonculus x 3 (riding with trueborn)
IMO you need to add a Liquidfier and vemon blade to each (15pts x 3 = 45pts)

Elites 504pts
3x 4 trueborn(3 blasters,1 splintercannon in venom with two splinter cannon)

Troops 485pts
5 Wracks with liquifier in venom with 2x splinter cannon
Sgt upgrade is worth the points for the +1 moral
2x 10 kabalite warrior squad w dark lance
accompanied by 2 venoms with 2 splinter cannon (obviously they can't ride)
This is incorrect, look at the DT entry for both Venom and Raider, you can't take the DT unless the squad can fit init.
Heavy 360pts
2x Ravagers with 3 dark lances, night shield and flickerfield
1 Talos with TL liquifier and TL haywire blaster

The thought behind the list
I have 8 Darklances the haywire blaster and 9 blasters for vehicles
15 splinter cannons for massed firepower 12 always have 6 shots
The Talos and Wracks are for distraction and/or tar pit (short term)
Trueborn and Wracks have pain tokens (thanks to haemys) in case something goes wrong.
I know its not cc like most DE but i love the venoms
Thoughts?
See my comments in red above.
Not a bad list.
Have you converted your 4 venoms yet? I used eldar vemons/plastic card/DE bits for my son's.
Try out the Razorwing fighter. My son likes to run 2 + 1 ravager. 4 missles, 6 SC shots + 2 DL can put the hurt on a foot squad (Ravager hopefully pops the DT open).

[Brycec13]

I didn't give the Haemys venom blades because they hopefully wont see cc.
My current venoms are old jetbikes with raider planks, plasticard, and misc bits. (waiting for models)
I altered my list since i overlooked that transport rule
Hq 155pts
3 Haemonculus one with 1 venom blade(used extra points)

Elites 504pts
3x 4 trueborn(3 blasters,1 splintercannon in venom with two splinter cannon)

Troops 480pts
5 Wracks with liquifier in venom with 2x splinter cannon
4 Wracks with Acothyst in venom with 2x splinter cannon (running both wracks together)
5 kabalite warriors with blaster in venom with 2x splinter cannon
10 Kabalite warriors with dark lance

Heavy 360pts
2x Ravagers with 3 dark lances, night shield and flickerfield
1 Talos with TL liquifier and TL haywire blaster

wracks run together. I don't know how that will work but I am gonna try it
still have 7 dark lances but 10 blasters now
15 splinter cannons.
And I currently have 11 Venoms converted.They don't look awesome but work.

[Brycec13]

And thanks for the assistance btw.

[donut]

this lists needs tweaking, because there are way to many wasted points. 3 hemoncs? for what reason? to give 4 trueborn feel no pain. 4 guys with toughness 3, w/ or w/o FnP, they are fragile, they will die when you sneeze at them. lose 2 hemoncs (100pts), lose the trueborn with splinter cannon x3 (66pts). thats a start, then tweak your troops. 4 wracks will do nothing. least go 5 and get them the liq gun. Single talos, with no wwp, you have no other cc threats. Your enemies will not say, ooo shiny, and go to him. they will stay away from it, target the rest of your army and then kill the talos when they need to. just get the other ravager. lose the night shields on your ravagers. you dont need both 10 pt upgrades.
your 3 units of trueborn control the mid field, the 3 ravagers control from the back. thats 6 targets that will take 3 lance shots each. and the 3 venoms with dual SC. now you have room for 5 man troops (warrior + blaster= AT) + venom(AI), or 10 man wracks if you like them (AI) + raider(AT). but i must repeat, hemonc + 4 trueborn = waste. just put a hemonc with a 10 man warrior squad w/ DL or something if you want to fill the HQ slot cheaply.

[Brycec13]

I agree with the Haemonculus bit (save me some kps) but the SC trueborn are for versatility. If i did get rid of them I would add blasters so eat more points in a vunerable unit that is on a suicide run (they last longer with fnp).
WWP is a waste in a 1500 point list: too vulnerable to run one and make it a beacon and waste of points to run more than one at this level when im not running a cc army.
As for everything else i'll toy with the points and see what i can come up with

[newtoncain]

I like your list. DE "uber army" is still in the testing phase. We will know come "a'rd boys" how the DE will do.

My son always runs his Hae loaded either VB/Lq (for an assualt leader) or Hex Rifle for one that sits with a 20 man foot squad.

If you have not tested the 2 types (Blast/ 2 x DL/ Syb or SpC x 2/ Syb) of 20 man foot squads, do it. The Hae giving them FNP + usually in cover = 2 x 4+ saves = keeps them alive.:)

[donut]

I like your list. DE "uber army" is still in the testing phase. We will know come "a'rd boys" how the DE will do.

My son always runs his Hae loaded either VB/Lq (for an assualt leader) or Hex Rifle for one that sits with a 20 man foot squad.

If you have not tested the 2 types (Blast/ 2 x DL/ Syb or SpC x 2/ Syb) of 20 man foot squads, do it. The Hae giving them FNP + usually in cover = 2 x 4+ saves = keeps them alive.:)

that is over 300 pts for a troop squad, for wither 2 DL or 2 SC shots a turn. DE are not marines or other armies. When will this unit make back its points for you? 315 and you can get 9 DL on ravagers. Why give them a heami? your oppenent will already focus fire on the other much weaker units that pose much greater danger. And once they knock off those other threats, all it takes is one CC squad to do more wounds then this unit and have them run off the board.
Hex rifle in the 20 man squad. if you have DL in that squad, you cant shoot the hex at vehicles as they are unharmed by the hex rifle. If you have 2 SC then the hex rifle shot will be allocated to a model of little value in the squad.
The only way to win with DE agianst tourney proven lists, is to optimize everyhting you have. under 2k, you don't really need 4 blasters in a trueborn squad, has those points can buy you another unit to wreak havoc with.

[Brycec13]

I did find with the old book that 20 man squads were relatively versatile and ravagers get waylayed quickly... Although it is hard to justify points there. the fnp would help with that but it honestly matters on factors in the game. Who is going to charge a 20 man squad like that without taking serious shots from them.
The anti tank isnt there as much but everybody goes for ravagers and you don't seem to think them worth a 10pt upgrade or two

[newtoncain]

that is over 300 pts for a troop squad, for wither 2 DL or 2 SC shots a turn. DE are not marines or other armies. When will this unit make back its points for you? 315 and you can get 9 DL on ravagers. Why give them a heami? your oppenent will already focus fire on the other much weaker units that pose much greater danger. And once they knock off those other threats, all it takes is one CC squad to do more wounds then this unit and have them run off the board.
Hex rifle in the 20 man squad. if you have DL in that squad, you cant shoot the hex at vehicles as they are unharmed by the hex rifle. If you have 2 SC then the hex rifle shot will be allocated to a model of little value in the squad.
The only way to win with DE agianst tourney proven lists, is to optimize everyhting you have. under 2k, you don't really need 4 blasters in a trueborn squad, has those points can buy you another unit to wreak havoc with.

20 man squad is for holding a objective, either tweeked out as AT or AI. Yes 3 Ravagers at 375 is great, 2 Fighters is also good at 350.

I didn't say it was an uber unit, mathhammered out, win at all cost type of build.:confused:
If it was I'd be playing one of the Cheat Wolves or Blood angel POWER builds.:eek:

[Brycec13]

I'll be playing with the list tonight so I will post up results and tweaks.

[Brycec13]

Results:
Haemy and wracks didnt even get into cc either game.
Anyways I played Tyranids the first game and tabled them turn 2. Just too much firepower on their models to matter.
Second game was against Tau. Spearhead deployment and annihalation. this game i actually took my talos out as he had 1400 points. Flickerfields payed off and when i went turn one i shot everythign at his scouts and suits. turn two i took out whatever deepstruck in and his kroot killed one of my warrior squads. We went back and forth and i ended up tabling him at turn 5. He took out my raider, two venoms two warrior squads and i dark lance off a ravager. I will play marines saturday and then i will do my adjustments. Anything that you all think might work more efficiently let me know.

[newtoncain]

Results:
Haemy and wracks didnt even get into cc either game.
Anyways I played Tyranids the first game and tabled them turn 2. Just too much firepower on their models to matter.
Second game was against Tau. Spearhead deployment and annihalation. this game i actually took my talos out as he had 1400 points. Flickerfields payed off and when i went turn one i shot everythign at his scouts and suits. turn two i took out whatever deepstruck in and his kroot killed one of my warrior squads. We went back and forth and i ended up tabling him at turn 5. He took out my raider, two venoms two warrior squads and i dark lance off a ravager. I will play marines saturday and then i will do my adjustments. Anything that you all think might work more efficiently let me know.
2-0 congrates. Is it the army? Or the peaple you played against?
What is the name of your "Kabal":eek:

[Brycec13]

The tau I was concerned but both players were mediocre. The venom combination make huge dents for their cost and I ran them in groups of 4 and 2

[Brycec13]

I played again yesterday. First game was 3000 against Black templar, I paired up with another DE player who runs a similar list so we meshed well. We won by contesting 2 objectives and holding the third.
4th game was against a story based ork list and i lost by 5 kp in annihilation...
Thoughs.
Black templar land raiders are ridiculus... couldnt touch em. Terminators are annoying and hard to counter
Orks... he had like 140 bodies on the table. 6 kanz and the shield generator. all his boys were getting cover and they were in huge squads. Even with my firepower for infantry i couldn't kill them fast enough. Hell two of my venoms first turn took out 19 in one squad and the kept coming. on top of that everybody over there had rokkits and his cans made ridiculous saves. I honestly don't know how to combat that much differently.

[newtoncain]

Orks... he had like 140 bodies on the table. 6 kanz and the shield generator. all his boys were getting cover and they were in huge squads. Even with my firepower for infantry i couldn't kill them fast enough. Hell two of my venoms first turn took out 19 in one squad and the kept coming. on top of that everybody over there had rokkits and his cans made ridiculous saves. I honestly don't know how to combat that much differently.

Have you thought about running beast masters? 5 masters(hellion) + 15 Khymaeares (chaos beasts/spiders/boars)+ 2 Razorflock (LotR bat swarms) + 2 more razor or 1 Clawed (any 40mm based beast will work) = 300-310pts. Start them with a Haemo (50 more points) for the pain token (he leaves right away to join something else). 20+ units, fleeting range 12 assault, FNP, 15 x 4+ invul, 10-20 rending attacks puts the hurt on anything not cracker boxed. Masters also have a range 18" A2 posion gun on there skyboards.

Razorwing fighter with SpC and 4 missles does the job for 1 round also.

[Brycec13]

I am hesitant to use either without the models? Do you know of any conversions for the razorwing and i guess i could use old beasts. Ill toy with it and see how it goes.

[newtoncain]

I am hesitant to use either without the models? Do you know of any conversions for the razorwing and i guess i could use old beasts. Ill toy with it and see how it goes.

FOr conversions I saw a some Eldar fire prisam used on line (don't remember were).
Forge world has a DE fighter that you can scratch build, if you are good at that.
I'd say kit bashing DE bits with plastic card is your best bet. I'm still learning how to do the plastic card (2 venoms done, but not perfect.

[BlindGunn]

I am hesitant to use either without the models? Do you know of any conversions for the razorwing and i guess i could use old beasts. Ill toy with it and see how it goes.

Can't help with the Beasts, but Forge World still has the original Razorwing fighter last I looked.

I have 2 - very simple models (and CHEAP for FW). Comes with 2 Dark Lances and a splinter cannon. Missiles were not an option at the time the model was first released. I haven't bothered modeling missiles on mine since the rules changed - just tracked them using tokens.

[Brycec13]

I fooled around with the idea of buying them from fw but im going to wait for release. I worked on two old raiders and got them to feasably work for free lol. Some foam board extra dark lances and 8 military missles later with some repositioning and i have a razorwing and a voidraven.

[Brycec13]

update... current record 3-1-1 Won(Black templar, tyrannids, tau) ties(Blood angels) loss(orks) list does fairly well. I honestly need some sort of cc because i can only run for so long. Weak point of this list i guess

[BlindGunn]

update... current record 3-1-1 Won(Black templar, tyrannids, tau) ties(Blood angels) loss(orks) list does fairly well. I honestly need some sort of cc because i can only run for so long. Weak point of this list i guess
Those results still without the Razorwing?

I have a suggestion, but you may not like it:

Drop 1 squad of Trueborn (168 points), then get:

- Squad of 3 Reavers with 1 Caltrop and 1 Heat Lance
(Usually used to just Overfly troops at highspeed for Bladevanes & Caltrops attacks)
(Heat Lance for that extra tank you just HAVE to kill)

- Squad of 4 Mandrakes with NightFiend upgrade
(your Extra CC element that can shoot in a pinch)

Options give you a bit more variety and you don't gain or loose a kill point.

I've used Reavers and had some success, though I usually go with a unit of 6 for more attacks and bodies. Key to over-fly is you may not get to attack for a turn or two while you setup to overfly. You would have to drop more than 1 squad to get 6 Reavers which I think really works well (for me). Others seem to not like them so much. Also, you can play with the weapons options a bit to save a few points for something else or increase unit size. You can get into CC in a pinch, but I would try to avoid it.

Mandrakes - I haven't used them yet myself (still painting them), but their "cool" factor and extra rules give you lots of options. A 5+ invulnerable save to everything doesn't hurt, either (unlike Wyches).

As I said - it gives the army more variety which some players don't like. I do. It confuses opponents trying to decide what target is more dangerous and gives you more options. Your call - it's your army! ;)

I think though, you may be better off getting that Razorwing deployed and blow away the opponent before he gets into CC anyway. Dropping that troop of Trueborns should give you the points you need for that without changing anything else in your list.

Good Luck and keep letting us know what works!

[Brycec13]

So I declared my greenskin buddy to be my nemesis. We played again and although it only lasted three turns due to time constraints I felt more confident with the army list as follows

Hq 100
2 Haemonculi

Troops 380
2x5 warrior squads w Bl
venom with Sc
10 man warrior squad with DL Bl

Elites 292
2x3 trueborn with 3 Bl
venom with Sc

Fast Attack 268
5 Beastmasters
9 Khymera
1 Clawed Fiend
4 razorwing flocks

Heavy 455
Ravager w NS FF
Voidraven w NS FF 2necrotoxin missles 2 shatterfield
Talos w CC TLHB TLLG

Total-1495

I had to drop 6 trueborn and a venom along with some other small stuff to incorporate the additions. Beasts wiped out two squads and the talos wiped out one of his troops but the beasts got tankshocked and ran off the board(bad consolidation move) and i honestly didn't miss the trueborn. When we wrapped up the game He had 27 models left on the board and three vehicles. Ended up calling it a tie due to objectives but I feel confident i would have won easily by 5.

[BlindGunn]

How did the Void Raven perform for you? Would you use it again with this list?