Fate of Eldar - what will change with future codex?

[Telepfenion]

Had pretty uneventful Christmas this year so spend time wondering when new codex would show up and what it would change... and of course, what needs to be changed and which direction. It ended up pretty long list.. ^^' And now in the point were wondering what others wonder about the subject.

So, what you are hoping, fearing, demanding and expecting to change? Something special in mind?

I hope Eldar would stay small elite force, thus demanding upgrades - especially for all HQ units - allowing them to act in synergy even better and face outnumbering enemies with skill, precision and bending odds to their favour. Clearer roles and power to allow to be good in what one is supposed to do. However, what I fear is that point costs will drop yet it is also sadly what I expect to see.

Because I don't have experience how people react around here, I place main ideas below and hope that either them or above questions will result some conversation.

+General+
Fleet of Foot
- Altered to Fleet of Eldar to allow usage of assault weapons on same phase as fleeting. Would give Eldar their speed back and return some Shuriken Catapult's benefits when compared current Rapid Fire weapons.

+HQ+
Autarch
- Master of Strategies could also ably -1 to roll instead and/or Eldar's Planet Fall type reserve rolling.
- Silent Surprise: All skimmers would gain scout and/or deep strike ability (Why military mastermind would limit oneself to trench-war if access to fast, silent, flying vehicles?)

Farseer
- New powers that would allow negate opponent's strengths or even use some of those against them.
- Few new powers to Warlocks too, some to boost farseer's potential when within same squad.

Phoenix Lords and Avatar
- Alternative force organization chart for Lord's own aspect same way as Wraithguards have it.
- Ability to influence (either in form of +1/-1 modifier or re-roll) roll to see if game ends.

+Troops+
Guardians
- Mixed equipment instead Defender / Storm Guardian variants (both already have 12" effective combat range anyhow).

+Fast Attack+
Shining Spears
- More jousting, less melee!

Warp Spiders
- Return their role as group and area control
- Better utilization for Warp Jump Generators.

Swooping Hawks
- Return their role as flying grenadiers (as lasblaster is mere sidearm).

+Heavy Support+
Support Weapon Battery
- Could be taken as dedicated support for Guardians without dedicated transport.

Falcon
- Alternative dedicated transport option for aspect warriors & seer council

Rest of the stuff is far less critical to wholeness. Stuff like adjusting size of squads, weapons, powers, gear and upgrades.


Thank you for reading.

[DarkLink]

I'd like to see BS 4 guardians, while aspect warriors will all be either WS or BS 5, depending on if they focus on shooting or CC. It'd be cool to see an army with lots of very high WS/BS.

I'd also like to see an assault vehicle. I've given up on the melee aspects with mech lists because I find its too hard to get them into CC and I could just get another Fire Dragon squad instead.

Long ranged weapons like the missile launcher and bright lance shouldn't be so absurdly expensive, either.

[Sorrowshard]

Well, the De book has confirmed that essentially , Harlequins will stay the same , bright lances might get a points drop ,but still suck the fat one , also phoenix lords will not be getting fixed and will be owned by anything with an invun , so business as usual then.

I have quite a list of things I would like to see addressed, given the current trend with xeno books I'm not hopeful ....

[Xas]

look at the DE book and you know what is coming:

definatelly no change do harlies/phoenix lords (maybe some equipment but nothing big)/fleet/lances (they got more expensive for DE, CE has had that step already so will stay same or maybe -5pts).


With the rest you can expect some interesting abilities and point switches (I could see something for shining spears that is similar to reaver bladevanes.maybe if you turboboost over a unit each model may make one melee attack with the lances. if thats in they might lose their melee-weapon effects alltogether and a power sword on the exarch might start to make sense. in turn you might see striking scorpions leave their assoult grenades at home like the incubi O_o).

psykers will definatelly be powerfull but fair priced for your oponent on the premise you use them to their fulles potential (so expect a current power farseer to be 200 pts). example is the very powerfull but expensive and situational soulsucker archon / huskblade. however there might be an option for warlocks as independent charackters which arent that powerfull but add nice little and cheap buffs to your units.

guardians might be merged with support weapon batteries into one unit entry and/or allowed multiple weapon platforms per squad (maybe 5-20 guardians and 1 weapon platform per 10)



my bet is that fleet/lance will be fixed when the 6th edition of 40k arrives (as the only unit which got a super-fleet were the hormagaunts who in return lost their 12" charge!).

For that I foresee that lance will either simply add +2 to your penetration result or be +1 to pen and +1 on the damage chart.

For fleet I foresee a simple combination of E5 run and E4 fleet. so you can either fleet d6 and charge OR run 2d6 and not charge if you have fleet (stuff without fleet can only run 1d6 and not charge). I also foresee that this is done in the movement phase (like aethersails) to speed stuff up.

[BuFFo]

I keep on seeing these Eldar Wishlists on various forums. Everyday a new one of these comes up.

All I can say is "get out of my Dark Eldar Codex! :eek:

[DarkLink]

Yeah, if Dark Eldar didn't get the ability to shoot and fleet, then I don't see why Eldar would get it. Except maybe a single aspect, possibly.

It would be nice if Guardians were actually good, though.


I don't know why Phoenix Lords would stay the same, though. Harlequins,maybe, as they're in the DE codex, but I wouldn't be surprised if even they changed.

And DE Lances got more expensive because they were crazy cheap in the last codex. Whereas Eldar lances are crazy expensive. I would expect them to cost about the same as the DE lances, meaning 20-25pts depending on the bearer's BS. And there's no reason that Eldar missile launchers should be so expensive, either.

[davel]

I'm a eldar veteran and in the words of anakin skywalker " I will not turn to the dark side". so I'm looking through the dark ekdar dex with an eye on what it tells us about the eldar.

as an eldar player we have had to accept that DE are faster but flimsier.

also new codexs tend to keep rules that have worked well in the past with out breaking the. the reavers over passing rule won't break the game as several units have similar abilities ( deff copters) and of course feel no pain.

and you can't do dark eldar without looking at eldar.

Firsrt warriors vs guardians. Well the book fluff makes it clear that the warriors spend their lives fighting to get on these raids. So it makes sense that their stats match that of aspect warriors with rubbish armor. So this means guardian stats are going to stay the same (comparatively rubbish due to not fighting all the time) there There are more Dark eldar than eldar think. So the warriors large squad size would be a good indication of eldar guardian size.
guardians do need some improvement so I would hope more heavy weapons for larger squads. guardian vs warrior not much has changed. the poison makes little odds to a guardian ( though wraith constructs will suffer). warriors have gone up in points, but warriors power through pain is a bargain if they can kill something.

quins is interesting. with previous dex the warriors were perceived to be better than guardians yet the same points. gav thorpe answered this with the eldar esq wisdom of " the points represent the value of thetroop to the army " and this satisfied us for five min. so when we went to ask what that actually meant he had escaped out the fire exit.
With quins being the same points in both dex means this philosophy is dead (?). quins current balance nicely with scorps and banshee having their own niche. Eldar elites do tend to be dominated by cheap fire dragon units in transports.
though i can see why GW has done this (same units sold to more players) it does make it hard to say introduce the solitaire in the eldar dex.

icnubi = aspect warriors ( Sort of as they start out as warriors)
They tend my thinking towards that there won't be major changes but small tweaks. When 5th came out eldar players were worried that due to wound allocation exarchs would fall easily and powers/ wargear were a waste. this did not pan out and this seems to be a case if it aint broke.
Their exarch has 2 powers and 2 extra wargear choices on to maximise squad and one giving it something different. essentially just like an exarch
they do have 3+ sv and fleet but i think that goes with their faster
their special character is ( in terms of stats, though not actually said in fluff) a phenix lord but slightly better as he benefits from DE rules and has one extra special rule. So phenix lords won't change much.

vehicles

ariel assault is some thing I'm hoping for all our vehicles as under slung shuricannons need it. If this is the year of the flyer super sonic is something that that our flyers may get. though it's anyones guess if that would be a FA or HS slot.

vyper =venom sort of
This (or something very similar) was first seen in citadel journal harli codex and was described as being vyper like. Certainly the DE codex piccy looks vyper esq. It seems over gunned (if cat=riffle and Scan=Scan, mm may need to rethink that last one) it has the same gunnage as a cheap vyper plus 5 guys. it does not have ariel assault but then it does not need it as all guns are defensive. the retro jets are interesting as a upgrade that eldar may get for vehicles.

characters

only one with eternal warrior is the icnubi see Phoenix lord
there is one that hints that far seers may help get the side you want.
a few of them alter your chances of seizing 1st turn or side. this may be replacing strategy rating, which may have ramifications for autarch.

weapons
they have 1 weapon that allows no invulnerable saves. though istant death weapons are plentiful and are a good way of defeating them as well
dark= bright no change apart from cheaper for DE though i think this balances with the amount of punishment they can take from tanks. I'm not expecting an eldar points drop.
melta lance thing. fire dragons started with melta guns then GW decreed all races have own unique weapons so we had inferior(?) fusion gun. then last codex back to melta. It just does not sit right. fire dragons will get looked at ( we are a dying race, but if we all form in to fire dragon suicide squads we can win battles) so we may end up with something similar ( but not dark).


well end of the surmising/ rant

what do you reckon?

dave l

[DeeJay]

Given that splinter weapons changed to being Poisoned in the Dark Eldar Codex a new Eldar codex might look to change Shuriken weapons to Rending weapons.

Other Things I'd Love To See
A range increase to 18" for the normal Shuriken Catapult. Guardians are often mowed down before firing a shot. The Avenger Catapult would still need to be superior.

Fly- by attack for Shining Spears with AP3 laser lances.

Walkers moved to Fast Attack.

1-3 Fire Prisms as a single Heavy Support choice so we can use the combined fire and still take another Heavy Support.

Exarchs costed as part of a 5 man squad.

Phoenix Lords making their corresponding Aspect a Troops choice.

Swooping Hawks scattering less when Deep Striking and being able to use Haywire Grenades in their Grenade Packs.

A transport with an Assault Ramp (even if it has next to no weapons). Never been sure how a Terminator clomping out of a moving Land Raider gets to Assault the same turn but a Banshee leaping from a moving Skimmer can't; do they have to stop to sort their hair? :)


Anyway that's my pennies worth of ideas.

[Xas]

A transport with an Assault Ramp (even if it has next to no weapons). Never been sure how a Terminator clomping out of a moving Land Raider gets to Assault the same turn but a Banshee leaping from a moving Skimmer can't; do they have to stop to sort their hair? :)



the termiantors do not have to jump out of the BACK of the vehicle. and not even eldar vehicles can move backwards at neckbreaking speed in the fluff. ;)

[DeeJay]

All my Wave Serpents seems to end up pointing their access ramps at the enemy anyway (possibly why they get blown up so much) :)

When I say I want an Eldar vehicle with an Assault Ramp I was thinking about a new Eldar vehicle rather than a change to the Wave Serpent's or Falcon's rule. I.E. a vehicle with a front facing Assault Ramp

PS Can anyone think of any units or vehicles mentioned in fluff or that appeared in Epic or Apocalypse that might appear in a new Eldar Codex?

(I'd love to see a plastic Nightwing, fingers crossed for next years's releases)

[Telepfenion]

@ Darklink
- That would be 'elite' indeed. How about Initiative?
- And assault vehicles would change a lot how things would work out. Maybe some sort of Tank Shock Assault? Vehicle rams to enemies and during the time they are getting back to their feet, passengers would be already out and running towards?
- If missile launcher and bright lance are too costly, how about starcannon or maybe possibility having pulse laser as heavy weapon option?
- And about special fleet, I don't see reason limit to only (Craftworld) Eldars. However, rapid fire weaponry of Dark Eldars would make it less beneficial for them. And while rest of Eldar cannot gain pain tokes, I personally wouldn't like to see it duplicated.

@ Sorrowshard
- Aware of Harlequins (I like they are working well) but didn't spot dark phoenix lord (but doesn't own the book). Bright/Dark lance debate noted. ^^
- Curious to hear what you would be changing. Crack Shot effect instead AP 1 results for ranger's headhots would be one of my own favorites.

@ Xas
- I have read it few times (I don't own it, though) thus some insight. But apart Harlequins, I have hope not such linear cut and paste format. Odds for such are still bad, that is true.
- I wish ride-by attack type possibility for Spears too, current one isn't jousting but melee. Non assault grenades for assault units? Guess they run out of bombs after arming IG troopers with them.
- Expensive Farseers are good sight, as long as their cost match their powers. Warlocks independent characters sounds lots like Dawn of War. Could cause some interesting twist.
- Lets see what happens, special fleet would has its benefits.
- +2 to penetration rolls would deny Eldar's reason to limit their vehicles only to AV 12. AV 14 waves back? people would cry. +2 to damage rolls too would make those deadly.

@ BuFFo
- Wishlists are fun, and with luck, it could even influence something.
- But didn't get your point. I'm not wanting your Dark Eldar codex apart possibility to make alternative Harlequin list. ó.o

@ davel
- Agreed. Dark Eldar has wider potent while Eldar has stability.
- Reaver's run-over-attack would work well with Shining Spears and Swooping Hawk's bomb runs. However, special rules lose their special status if too common.
- True, guardians are militia instead professionals. They need become more useful and my solution was mixed unit and alternate fleet move, it wouldn't change concept but would allow give some edge and options.
- I didn't get point of statement about focusing only Fire Dragons and Solitare (Going Dark Eldar harlequins and using that quick lady as Solitare could be interesting thought).
- I think Avengers, Scorpions, Dragons and Banshees are fine, and so are Spears and Reapers with minor adjusting so there is no reason to change them much anyhow. When it comes Phoenix Lords, having ability affect final roll would make them solid choice without modifying their combat prowess.
- If we are going to see real flyer, I except it to be Nightwing. Real flyer sounds nice even always seen all Eldar grav-vehicles as flyers who are just stuck as skimmers due lack of fly rules. Ability (falcons if I recall) to move as flyers when part of Apocalypse formation supports this view.
- I recall that Harlequin Transport Vyper... It was funny. I suggested Falcon as Dedicate to free them from being Heavy Support slot or without passengers.
- Seer stealing the initiative? Hmm. Would be interesting if it could also return the initiative if opponent decides to go second. Currently seems that going first only wanted result.
- Your commend about suicide squad saving the dying race losing battles made me grin. ^^ Current meta currently just favours Dragons over other elites. I see this meaning that Aspects works; if hordes would be dominating, simply shirting to Scorpions could do the job.

@ DeeJay
- Rending would be cool but I do doubt that Eldar get kind of power. This would mean that every skimmer and every third jetbiker would have power enough to destroy land raider. Even terminator would be crying cover, especially if Doomed.
- Agree that current range of Catapult is tricky. However, Dire Avenger Catapults are production of current codex thus not worrying if those cease to exist if basic catapult becomes good enough. If catapult armed models could shoot and then run, catapults would reclaim some of their strategical aspects even if limited 12".
- Shining Spears are supposed to joust (thus deliver single melee attack when moving past enemy); higher AP would be nice but less essential for shooting phase thought..
- I understand point seeing Walkers as Fast Attack (free room from Heavy Support, Eldar's current Fast Attack choices aren't that popular and IG has their walkers as Fast Attack too). However, walkers aren't really Eldar fast - apart Hawks, all of them can move at least two and half times faster than walker without assaulting, and Hawks can use Sky Leap to be near anywhere in next turn.
- Fire Prism squadrons could be nice. ^^
- Curious, why each aspect unit would need include exarch? Forced bought would limit us without benefit.
- Agreed with Phoenix Lords but wouldn't be enough to make anyone to pick Asurmen without going theme.
- That could be cool variant for swooping hawks. It would make me utilize Sky Leap every turn even more, though, and would render Intercept useless.
- Assault ramp would be useful indeed but find hard to reason how that would happen unless part of some sort of special Tank Shot move. Heh. And maybe landraiders makes sudden breaks so all terminators just flies away from zero-grav cargo hold right to their enemies.
- Thank you for your thoughts. ^^

[DarkLink]

I 5 for aspects and I 6 for exarchs and above would be fine. High WS/BS would just give more of a feel of a physically fragile army that relies on technology and skill to win.

The problem with Eldar heavy weapons is that, while Scatter Lasers are priced right, most of the more potent heavy weapons are way overpriced. It would be really cool to get a TL Pulse Laser on a Wave Serpent, though.

And I wouldn't give anyone a special fleet rule. At most, I could see GW having one unit able to modify it, if any at all.

[theHman]

Expect Wraithlords T to drop to 6 and go up in point cost.
Wraithguard T will drop to a 5 and remain around the same pts cost.

Would be nice for Phoenix Lords to have an invulnerable save, or at least 'eternal warrior'. Plus make their corresponding aspect warriors a troop choice. Though I'll still take 2 farseers over a farseer and any combo of HQ choices.

I also expect the points cost of Farseers to rise. Though it would be nice if their powers went further than a measly 6". 12" would be fantastic.

I suspect fleet will be dropped throughout the 'dex for the most part with very few units having fleet. See current Nid dex for historical basis on this.

I doubt any change to guardians will happen.

I suspect minor pts drops on Bright lances, Star Cannons, Missile launchers codex wide.

Wave serpents will drop in cost significantly.

Expect squadrons of 1-3 Fire Prisms for a hvy slot
and possibly moving the Walkers to Fast Attack (which would be awesome!).

Those are my predictions.

As to being able to run and shoot and assault... that's retarded wish-listing and will never happen nor should it as it would ruin the enjoyment of the game completely.

[DarkLink]

You're trying to compare Eldar to 'nidz, when it would be much more accurate to compare with Dark Eldar. I see no reason why they would drop widespread fleet, regardless of what happened to 'nidz.

And I also see no reason to nerf the Wraithlord. Sure, Carnifexes got expensive and not as good, but remember that Carnifexes and nidzilla were really, really good. Wraithlords, not so much. Not that they're necessarily bad or anything, they're just not exactly dominating the tournament scene on their own.

[scadugenga]

Would be nice for Phoenix Lords to have an invulnerable save, or at least 'eternal warrior'.

P-Lords already have Eternal Warrior. They just don't (save for Asurmen) have an invuln. save.

Personally--every unit that is made up of actual eldar (Guardians, aspect warriors, etc etc.) should get fleet.

If an entire company of space marines can be fleet (thanks to Shrike) then there's no reason not to put that little baby to rest.

Eldar don't need to raid the DE codex--let's keep them separate.

I'd like to see the CTM return, and (my one exception to non-DE raiding above) Vypers get aerial assault--since it would actually make them viable again.

I really like the following ideas:

1) P-Lords make their respective aspect a troops choice--or, barring that--scoring.
2) Bring back the Augment warlock power.
3) A 2 wound HQ choice would be nice...
4) Continue the shuriken catapult fix. Ditto that with the Cannon.

What can we reasonably expect?

Cheaper points costs for units. More models on the field mean more $$$ for GW.
More special characters, because GW can't imitate PP enough.
SC's being cheaper, and more effective than stock HQ choices.
Exarchs being included in the base points cost for an aspect warrior squad.
One, maybe 2 new units.
Revised exarch powers for aspect warrior squads that were made redundant in 5th ed.

[lattd]

I would love to see falcon become a transport and walkers into fast attack. Points drop across the codex and the nightwing added to heavy support. New special characters guessing a Saim Hann chieftan who makes vypers or shinning spears troops, maybe a biel tan and altansar characters.

[eldargal]

I'd like to see a few more special characters, as while I do not use them they do add an extra layer to the background. Apart from Phoenix Lords we only have two, and while PLs are all very good there is only so much character you can fit into physical embodiments of the Aspects. Bringing back Iyanna Arienal would be nice, or adding Q'sandria to replace Eldrad. Its just a coincidenceboth my suggestions are female.:rolleyes:

Oh, and increase the cost of War Shout but make it give +1s on the charge.:p

[Archon Charybdis]

I heartily support the idea of making Eldar vehicles better at shooting on the move. It could be something as simple as treating shuriken cannons as defensive weapons, giving every vehicle a viable second heavy weapon without just copying Aerial Assault.

[Telepfenion]

@ Darklink
- Sounds reasonable. How about guardians? Apart natural reflexes, they are militia instead truly trained for combat?
- Current prices are high but apart ones pushed by guardians are placed to vehicles supposed to be less prone 'weapons destroyed' than most other vehicles. Holo-fields were pretty good... True, Scatter Lasers are currently well balanced in points but I wish some sort of integral balance to heavy weapons. This would mean 10 points increase for Scatter Laser (and becoming Heavy 6), Starcannons as Heavy 4 and Pulse Laser (about cost of Starcannon) available as it is now and mayve hayware missiles to launcher (even hard to get past idea that those could actually be used on range) thus leaving only bright lance bit behind (could be 'master crafted' pieces, thus include twin-link perhaps). Cost-effectiveness would become less a issue but question would become what one wants to archive with chosen weapon. Shuricen Cannon is out of listing because it is 'special weapon' in first place. Sadly it cannot be taken instead flamers or fusion guns.
- Still pointing out, that special fleet move would allow only use of Assault Weapons, thus benefiting only Guardians (to get away), Avengers (would serve them very well), Death Jester / Triskele armed banshee exarch (should be too difficult trick or anything), Hawks (if they would actually assault anything that they could also damage with their shooting...) and Fire Dragons (would make them less suicidal). Most critical for guardians thought and if only someone got this ability, it isn't them. Of course, I'm pretty sure nothing like this will come anyhow.

@ theHman
- Agreed with Darklink about odds. Wrathlord, while being already toughest model available, if its toughness would be increasing to 10, it still wouldn't be broken for current environment - simply too much poison, lascannons, krak missiles and melta shots to stay upright more than one shooting phase (not forgetting many units that wipe floor with it in melee). Like wrathguards, if unable to serve as tarpits (only serious role they have left), crippling them even more doesn't make sense (or help boost the sales either).
- Also fleet was dropped from many tyranids due everyone become able to run, leaving need for fleet only for melee tyranids.
- Lots of other stuff are sadly likely due it is good for sales.
- I see your point about my variant fleet. However, I request focus to context. it meant to work only with assault weapons and only unit that reasonable would shoot and assault in row would be Dire Avengers (they are super scary, right?), other would use their sprint to get away from enemy instead (as far as I recall, guardians are only "ranged" unit in game that can't have more than one weapon to be utilized without being within everyone's assault range.). Ability to withdraw before being beaten shouldn't be game-breaker. Decide, Imperial Guards can make unit shoot ten heavy type weapons and still run after that...
- Than you for your foresight. I hope you got it wrong but you have odds are your side.

@ scadugenga
- Agreed, no need to raid Dark Eldars (and nice twist pun, thank you. xD). Tried to enchant what they already have instead borrowing from moody kin. However, certain things - like fly-by-attacks - are logical result how certain units would work anyhow (Swooping hawks actually had option to drop grenades while moving over enemies during 2nd edition).
- CTM? Cannot recall that one.
- Aerial assault would be nice but vypers would lose some of their charm being avatars of glass cannon.
- Scoring aspect warriors would be nice, true, even if not troops.
- Had that kind of power for warlocks in listing of new powers. Another would have allowed Farseer to re-roll Leadership roll-offs (thus making easier to use mind war or channel (new suggested Farseer power) as well as get past physic hoods and any similar check).
- Curious to learn about that fixing project.
- Solid suppositions. Waiting some of those with fear... Hopefully they at least can keep roles clear (hawks and spiders have currently forgotten their roles and only thing spears to truly joust are vehicles).
- Thank you for sharing your time. ^^

@ lattd
- Wouldn't it be more logical to place nightwing to Fast Attack and keep Walkers in Heavy Support? After all, Walkers are far from fast, while nghtwing truly is.
- New characters sounds interesting. Could happen.
- Thank you for sharing thoughts. ^^

@ eldargal
- Heh. Eldars have technically nine special characters, but one isn't counted as such (Avatar) and six remaining are more wargear than individual persons, and from remaining two, the other one has been gone since 13th Black Crusade. Yes, I can see point for few more special characters.
- I doubt they completely remove Eldrad who is iconic eldar hero since 2nd edition. However, he may get resurrected as Volkmar did (Empire hero who was away edition or two) and in such case Q'sandria would surely have role to play - she would still be side-kick but side-kick who carries Eldrad's "spirit stone" is still someone to be taken seriously.
- If war-shout would increase strength, it would lift off the integral balance between harlequins, scorpions and banshees. However, what if war shout would make opponent fumble? Each natural 1 to hit roll would be counted as wound caused by banshees when seeing which side won the assault. Or if affected unit would need to re-roll their successful to hit rolls?
- Thank you for taking part. ^^

@ Archon_Charybdis
- It is indeed kind of odd that only jetbikes (and death jesters) can actually benefit assault weapon's being assault weapon. Oddly everyone else treat them as those would be heavy weapon.
- Thanks for dropping to conversation. ^^

[SaganGree]

There are several features that I would like to see….

First, warlocks will be a subcategory of the Farseer, exactly like the Hemoculi, so one would see Warlocks having the same access to wargear as the farseer but at reduced quantities; psychic powers aside. (Or possibly having some powers reduced to one per army, similarly to the arcane wargear restrictions of the aforementioned Hemoculi). Also, with the reduction in overall availability of warlocks I would see that the witchblade would become a Power weapon.

The Seer Council of warlocks would be maxed at 5 and be under its own organization slot (exactly like honor guard) and would have its own wargear options.

Autarchs could have the same access to gear that they have now but would have “command” buffs they could bestow on nearby squads each turn, such as Stealth or Furious Charge or other Universal rule… all for a cost and with restriction.

The Avatar would be Eternal Warrior.


Scorpions, Banshees, and Fire Dragons will remain where they are as elites but will have individual enhancements similar to pain tokens. Examples could be Scorpions gaining stealth when they kill a unit, and Banshees getting FC, Fire Dragons getting Tank Hunter, etcetera.

Wraithguard… I have no idea.


Dire Avengers, as much as I would like to see Shuriken Cats be rending, that will never happen… just too good of an ability to give to a basic troop. However I do believe that they should have access to Plasma grenades and haywire grenades. Some tweaking would need to be done as the Guardian Cats would need to have their range increased.

Guardians, I would like to see Shuriken Cats get the range boost to 18” and weapon platforms included at 1/10 ratio (not heavy weapon platforms). The big change would be that Warlocks would not be included as a squad upgrade. They would need to be attached through purchase of a Farseer. Same would be said for other units that would normally include a warlock, ie wraithguard and GJBs.

GJBs would not see much of a change if any at all except for the fact that the cats range would be 18”.


Fast Attack
Heavy Support


A codex universal rule could be anything…
Thoughts are that the Eldar being in their aspect of war when they fight, as portrayed by the fluff, would be able to regroup if they are below 50% for example or something along those lines… I do not see them getting anything that would help them out with fleet as the DE are understandably faster in a general sense and so should not be overshadowed.

Just some of the thoughts I've had for a while...

[Fueldrop]

Wraithguard… I have no idea.


Plastic kit.

[scadugenga]

@ Darklink
.

@ scadugenga
- Agreed, no need to raid Dark Eldars (and nice twist pun, thank you. xD). Tried to enchant what they already have instead borrowing from moody kin. However, certain things - like fly-by-attacks - are logical result how certain units would work anyhow (Swooping hawks actually had option to drop grenades while moving over enemies during 2nd edition).
- CTM? Cannot recall that one.



Hawks actually debuted in RT era ('91) and had thrice the drop capability than 2nd ed, just 1/2 the distance. (If BR gets around to reading the article submission/posting*, it'll go into greater detail.)

Fly-by attacks would be nice--it's a new dimension they've sprung into being with the DE codex.

And while I'm in agreement to leave the DE codex alone--GW stole from the eldar codex and giveth to the marine-crap, so I can see them doing the same to DE spiffies.

CTM: Crystal Targeting Matrix. The vehicle wargear option that let the eldar shoot in the move phase.

Shuriken fix: The 18" range catapults for Avengers is a spot-fix. The Shuricat was the premiere basic weapon in the game pre-3rd ed. 24" range, multiple shots, and more armor pen than a bolter. It was nerfed badly in 3rd ed, and curb-stomped in 4th when the rules let rapid fire weapons shoot twice @ 12" even if the unit moved.

I'd love to see Pirates and Exodites return--but that's probably just pipe-dreaming by now.

*I am in by no means complaining, since I took forever to get him the thing in the first place.

[davel]

some things that have been creeping in to 5th codexes that eldar don't have.

characters that shift units to troops/ make them scoring
we only have the wraith guard shift. Which i think was the grandaddy of this ability. warbosses, marine captains on bikes and pedro. the baron (or is it the duke?) shows that this ability is stil going strong

weapons that ignore cover saves ( other than flamers)

abilities/ weapons that mess up/ignore invulnerable saves.

eldar should not necacerly have a "hammer" unit (though seer councils currently fill this gap) we should have some way to deal with them. Dark eldar got shatter shard.

abilities/ weapons that alter opponent ld

many of our foes have special Ld rules( fearless, stubborn, TSKNF, mob size) currently the ld mechanic is under used but may well become more important in 6th

dave l

[Telepfenion]

@ SaganGree
- Interesting solution. However, apart Runes of Warding there is no real wargear to Farseer to share for warlocks. Power quality would make witchblades deadly, thought, thus in that case limited amount would be reasonable. What kind of powers Warlocks and Farseers would have? Current powers are potent but limited to single squad at time, making them much weaker than powers that forms zones (which, strangely, still affect only way that there is no harm for friendly units). Anyhow, I would dislike to see zone-powers for Eldar, as even if powerful, those lack precision.
- How these buffs would work? I understand inspiring presence of Avatar as it affects Eldar's psyche but Autarchs are far from demigods. And why to lock Autarch to 4th edition when he is already half-way to fifth? Current edition is more about timed arrival, deployment and moving of models than actually killing or surviving, and Eldar - especially Autarch - has more than potential to grand powers beyond the tabletop.
- Avatar's Eternal Warrior would be more stylish (and to place him same group with Phoenix Lords) than actual critical upgrade as far as I can think. On other hand, why not? And it will cause less panic than increasing his strength to 8 which would mean that he could actually pick and kill T4 independent characters within squad with single blow.
- Eldars focus to their paths to avoid corruption caused by passions and pain token kind of boosts would exactly what they try to avoid with their culture. Tempting option nether to less.
- 18" catapult range would make things indeed much more easier for many.
- No access to Warlocks would change a lot (they are currently attached guardians/wraithguards as advisers to provide guidance for those who lack it). Of course, even average warlock should be way more potent psyker than they currently are and if they get boost they need, there is no way that GW let every other eldar squad access to librarian-equivalent spyker as mere sergeant.
- Not necessary sure if there need to be another army-wide special rule if squads are well balanced and unique. I hoverer disagree Dark Eldars being faster, while their vehicles go fast due lessened protection, they aren't faster version of Eldar kin; and variant fleet wouldn't be impossible for them if they would utilize other kind of weaponry yet they don't (they don't run forth and back, they drive next to target and unload their weapons without even bothering set their foot out of raider).
- Thank you for ideas. ^^

@ Fueldrop
- Hehehe. Good point. Aren't wraithguards oldest models currently in GW's production?
- Thanks for dropping by.

@ scadugenga
- Oh, cool. No experience from times of Rogue Trade.
- Should have know. Oh well, there is reason why personally trying to avoid abbreviations. Thank you for clearing that one out. ^^
- Now I feel stupid but can't catch context of third paragraph.
- Aware of advantages in 2nd edition but already used to see catapults as submachine guns good to storm trenches while lasguns as rifles while bolters as assault rifles. Rapid-fire change really hit hard, that is true. Rending is already suggested but it is unlikely. Fleet variant was my way to alter current system to give some extra influence for catapults but guess it isn't enough for most.
- Pirates were cool with lots of shiny, rare stuff but somehow I think that pirates were the starting point where from Dark Eldars evolved. And dunno, dragon knights could actually be solution to GW give Eldar those wolf-rider like hammer unit as Craftworld eldars lack that kind of direct punch (well, Eldars doesn't really need hammer unit but hammers are easy to play, thus making them tempting choice meaning more money for GW). Most likely it doesn't happen but who knows. It is money-worth option if noticed.
- Thank you. ^^-

@ davel
- I guess this unit shifts were result to try to make single army with possibility to make alternatives. Rangers as troops allowed build Alaitoc theme army, as well as Storm Guardians for Ulthwé, Wrathguard shift for Iyanden, Guardian Jetbikers as troops instead fast attack for sake of Saim-Hann while Biel-Tan has been the generic craftworld to build construction on. Ironically, there are too many famous Marine Chapters and named heroes to be worked out with only few extra troop choices than they would normally get. If Eldar will get more unit shifts, it is most likely related to Phoenix Lords.
- All mono-filament weapons should ignore cover - feel free to go down and avoid direct hit but wires will remain there, waiting you to move and get you sliced!
- Farseer power that would force opponent(s) take reserved invulnerable saves would be really Eldar like, turning opponent's greatest strengths to their own doom!
- Return of Exodus Dragon Knights could fit lore and serve as hammer unit but - while I would like to see those fellows back - I can agree Eldars wouldn't need hammer units in first place. Synergy of whole should stay more important factor than any individual unit.
- Heh. Ld modifying sound like Farseer's stuff as well. Something what could turn something really potent against them, something like influencing their pride or honour etc to make them make poor choices. Something like feint weakness - opponents would need to fail leadership test to avoid become over-confident and make unwise moves or maybe making them stand out from their covers.
- Thank you a lot! Your thought resulted few news potential powers for farseer!

[lattd]

My thinking behind the walkers becoming is fast is the fact they should be scouts and hence outflanking and being ahead of the firing lines. With this movement to fast combined with the falcon hopefully becoming a transport we would have more space for heavies. The nightwing being a big jetfighter would fit right in just like the razorwing or voidraven for dark eldar.

Dragon knights sound interesting maybe an exodite special character, have a special bow that shoots pyschic arrows ? maybe an autuarch court where you could have an exarch from each aspect as a member each providing a different benefit?

[davel]

cheers for the feed back Telepfenion

on your

- All mono-filament weapons should ignore cover - feel free to go down and avoid direct hit but wires will remain there, waiting you to move and get you sliced

i was hoping that the night spinner would have this ( though if you move dangerous terrain effect similar but not the same). It didn't . The problem being to be anti cover you need AP 4 so that targets that need the improved cover save find them selves vulnerable. Not that ap 3 would not be nice but it would be a little out of line with other ignore cover weapons.
However the night spinner weaponry was kept in line with the other monofilament weapons with ap -.

I think there is room in the codex for a cover hugging aspect. with stealth and move terrain infiltrate, cover ignoring weapons, defensive and plasma grenades, close combat weapon and a heavy flamer for exarch.

I'd call em shadow wraiths

scops are part way there but not the full clear terrain package.

dave L

[Ghoulio]

@ Davel: That is by far the best look at what will come for the Eldar Codex I have seen yet. All armies seem to have wish listing posts as to what they would like to see next, but for some reason none are as completely wack and out there as most CW:E ones. You are right in thinking that they best way to figure out what is coming, is by looking at the DE changes, as the ones in CW:E will be incredibly similar. Here is what I am thinking will happen:

- I can 100% see aspect warriors going to WS 5 with exachs at 6. I think this would be an awesome change and would completely make sense. If you look at incubi you can compare them to scorpions. For only 6 pts more Incubi get power weapons, fleet, +1 WS and power through pain, so to think that the aspect warriors will have to get some changes is pretty easy to see.

- Guardians will change. I bet their stats won't change but I also bet their options will. I would guess that 1 heavy weapon per 10 guardians is reasonable as well as a point decrease. I could also see shuriken catapults changing too as a 12" storm bolter on a guardsman is a super bad idea lol. I hope they get a point decrease to 6 points if the cats change or to 5pts if they dont.

- Shuriken Catapults. I would love to see these go to 18" range on the regular guardians and the dire avenger versions become rending.

- All mono-filment weapons should become rending (look at the night spinner for the push in that direction)

- Cost of Bright Lances, and anything that isnt a Scatter Laser. Sure DE got a point increase on these weapons but they are still substantially cheaper then on regular Eldar. A Brightlance for a guardian squad that is only BS 3 instead of 4 is still 10 points more then the DE counter part (although it does count as an assault weapon being on a platform). DE can get 15+ dark lances into a 2000pt list were CW:E will be hard pressed to see 5 and still be effective.

- I pray Eldar get assault ramps on Serpents for their assault troops. Would make total sense for this army

- I also pray that they get Ariel Assault for their battle tanks and vypers. One thing that would also be nice to see is a new form of crystal targeting matrix that allows for a +1 BS on vehicles that can take them. They are the most technilogical race out there so their vehicle upgrades should show it.

- The last thing I would really like to see is something new and fresh in the codex. Apart from Autarchs this book has been virtually the exact same since 2nd ed, so it would be nice to see some new aspect warriors like the ones FW is working on. Would be great to see some fliers added to the list.

If you think about it though, the Eldar book is still one of the better books out there. Really fluffy, tonnes of great choices and one of the best model ranges. The biggest thing to hope for is that Phil Kelly writes it and they do the same kind of quality work that was done on the DE. If that happens then this will take the CW:E from being one of my 3 fav armies (Nids, DE and Eldar) to being BY FAR my fav army :)

[Telepfenion]

@ lattd
- Ah I see. In that case Walkers as 'fast' would make sense, at least if grav-vehicles doesn't get Scout or Deep Strike qualities they have all reasnons access to.
- As far as I know, Nightwings aren't any larger than normal grav-tank, just different shape, maybe even bit smaller. And if armed with three (twin-linked?) shurricen cannons, it would only heavy support choice without access heavy weapons but at least ignoring cover from turbo-boost. At least if it is Nightwing from Apocalypse, memory that it has deputed there already.
- Well, even 'shortage for typical Eldar goods', Dragon Knights used to be armed with laser lanced. Of course, psyhsic arrows shooting bow could be heirloom from time before Fall. "(insert name) - the Protege of World Spirit" would be pretty awesome actually.
- Exarch counsil sounds cool but how it would work with Hawk's and Spider's extra mobility?
- Cool ideas to work with. Thank you. ^^

@ davel
- I think Web ability is that way nice that it hurts equally everyone, making it outright lethal to anyone without ++.
- D-cannon blast shouldn't mind about cover - I mean, everything is just sucked to warp. Vibro-cannon should actually be more lethal depending how much cover can fall over the victim.
- I think psychic power that would make opponent stand out from cover would deal trouble nicely. Alone it has no much effect but synergy would be lethal.
- New aspect, eh? Interesting interception but do we need all that in single unit? Especially when it would cross three other aspects (or at least what they should be doing)? But lets not shell idea outright... is there any way to make them really unique?

@ Ghuolio [edited to middle]
- Thank you for dropping by. Sadly too little time and too tired to focus fully.
- No quessing how Aspect powers would get boosted apart statistics? But yes, there is plenty of room to play. ^^
- 5/6 point guardians sounds nasty cheap. Could still happen. Good for business. 200+ Eldar on table would be really unexpected.
- Range issue is been long here but I kind of like rending option for Avengers instead anohter range boost. Blade storm would actually hurt after that.
- Rending, cover-negating and web. Long list of special powers for mono-fabric-weaponry but all rerasonable as well.
- Cheaper weapons are reasonable and familiar demand. Likely to happen too, thus it means more monay. Other way out would be upgradeing weapons themselves to fit current prices.
- Assault ramps are reasonable demand. Odds on other hand, aren't. At least, not without some sort of ramming-assault option.
- Aerial assault could make sense, at least for vypers and nightwing. And true, more upgrades are needed - Eldar have quality over quanity.
- Refeshing? Resurection of Dragon Knights and pirates are suggested, I'm hoping to see Star Eagle Aspect (pilots) as well but what would be pocked to new Aspect Warrior type to fill? Ironically, currently Eldar books has been pretty loyal to craftworld lifestyle - traditional and lacking creativity. xD
- Lets hope the best. ^^
- Thank you and pardom if my thinking is only half-way done.

@ General
Alright, Eldar psychic powers have got some spot light laterly and warlocks as secondary spykers instead mere retinue.

So, what would happen if we would return back in time and give Warlocks (1-3 as HQ choise) ability to pick two (Farseer) powers and cast one per turn (without access to spirit stone) while Farseer could use two powers row as average?

Possible powers
- Pride: Target must fail Leadership test or lose cover saves until next turn. Removes Gone to Ground status.
- Mind Borrowing: Target spyker must score equal or more in Leadership Roll-off each time using psychic power. If failed, Farseer nominates target/destination/etc for power instead actual psyker.
- Agony: Target loses No Pain special rule.
- Banishment: Target (picked out model / large template?) must pass reversed Invunerable Save or suffer wound.
- Blind: Target suffer from Nigth Fighting Rules and difficult terrain.
- Precision: Target's AP is increased by 1, to minimum of 1.
- Second Thoughts: Target must roll extra d6 whenever making leadership related rolls, then discarding single result of Farseer's choice.
- Malfunction: Pick a Target. Victim shoots itself with one of its weapon of Farseer's choice.

Pretty powerful, yes? Any potentially workable?

[DrLove42]

@ lattd
- - As far as I know, Nightwings aren't any larger than normal grav-tank, just different shape, maybe even bit smaller. And if armed with three (twin-linked?) shurricen cannons, it would only heavy support choice without access heavy weapons but at least ignoring cover from turbo-boost. At least if it is Nightwing from Apocalypse, memory that it has deputed there already.


The Nightwing is as wide as a falcon and 50% as long again (so 150% the length). I know, i have 2

It's armed with 2 Cannons, and 2 Bright Lances

It also doesn't ignore turboboost cover

[Telepfenion]

@ DrLove42
- Thank you. My memory served me wrong. Clad that one become confirmed. Makes me just wonder why I was left impression from that vehicle that it is good for aerial dog-fights. Current variant indeed sounds heavily armed.

[DrLove42]

Its good for dogfights against other aircraft cos all its weapons are AA mounted, so hit aircraft on 3's not 6's. It also only needs a minimum move of 18" not 36" like all other fliers.

Also its rules were written back in the day that all hits on aircraft were downgraded to glancing because it was moving flat out, now everything gets a cover save instead...so its severly overcosted IMO

[Archon Charybdis]

Like the Hydra's AA abilities, I could see a regular 40K Nightwing being given a "dog fighting" rule where it ignores the cover saves of of bikes and skimmers.

[davel]

the imperial guard codex ( with hydras and valks) was written by the same guy as dark eldar (with bombers and fighters)

now at the time I was under helmed by the AA ability of the hydra.

I'm now thinking that this may be an example of reverse codex creep.

That units are put in the codex that seem useless( initially, and I'm not saying hydras are useless) but become more useful as more codexs come out.

I hope this is long term planning and not random. 2011 is rumoured to be year of flyer, in theory a good thing for eldar.

Dave l

[eldargal]

Codex: Imperial Guard was written by Robin Cruddace and Codex: Dark Eldar was written by Phil Kelly, not quite the same guy.:)

[davel]

Ok. in reality yes robbin wrote in imperial guard and phil wrote dark eldar

but in my head phil kelly wrote both and I blame him for making me roll lots of 1's.

but seriously Phil did write a recent dex and i can't remember which

dave l