2011 Eldar project.

[Chaos Minion]

A buddy and I will be starting in 2011 a new army. I decided to go with eldar...but I have questions for the more experienced out there. I like the Ulthwe background and the idea of a jet bike centered army, and I like the colors of iyanden. So...

1. Can seer councils on bikes be effective? And how do you equip/use them?

2. Are jetbike armies actually feasible/competitive?

Any suggestions or help tips are welcome and appreciated. Thx.

[Defenestratus]

A buddy and I will be starting in 2011 a new army. I decided to go with eldar...but I have questions for the more experienced out there. I like the Ulthwe background and the idea of a jet bike centered army, and I like the colors of iyanden. So...

1. Can seer councils on bikes be effective? And how do you equip/use them?

2. Are jetbike armies actually feasible/competitive?

Any suggestions or help tips are welcome and appreciated. Thx.

1) I'd argue that ONLY mounted seer councils are competitive and...

2) well, as troops Jetbikes are probably one of the better choices but only, IMO in numbers. They don't hit hard and are basically an assault marine defensively (but harder to hide behind terrain). You need something else to do your hard hitting as JSJ with shuriken cannons on bikes isn't very effective.

[thecactusman17]

A few things:

Bikes ONLY is a bit hard to do because you only have two options for taking out tanks, and they both involve dedicating your best units to them (farseers and warlocks with spears). In a rare move, this is the ONLY time I would equip my farseer with Eldritch Storm, which does some nasty penetration effects AND has the ability to turn around a vehicle for followup attacks.

You need to have a warlock in every squad. In the Warlock Biker squads, your weaponry can be mixed but in the Guardian Bikes, he needs to have a spear for the S9 ranged anti-vehicle attack. Enhance or Embolden is your most important psychic power because each allows you to stay on the board longer in the event of close combat (which you should be trying to desperately avoid except for your Warlocks).

Maximize your Shuriken cannons. For all they lose in ballistic skill, these are still going to be your best long ranged attack against light armor and monstrous creatures, as well as dealing with T3 multiwound models like Archons, Succubi, Cannonesses etc.

Remember, your Farseers are NOT required to be a part of the Warlock uit regardless of what some of your opponents might say (Read the entry, Warlocks are a part of the same HQ choice, not the same unit, and your FS is an IC anyway.) Use this to your advantage, Warlocks can really benefit from a farseer's presence but sometimes you need to keep your troops alive--much easier to do with rerolling cover saves etc.

[ElCheezus]

I've seen one of these in my local game store, and the Jetbike council absolutely wrecked me. I was thinking it over, and I don't think that mech IG has a good counter for them, as long as they take Psykic defense. I guess the best counter would be Manticores, to try and put as many ID wounds as possible, but they still have rerollable saves. So I definitely support these guys, as long as I don't have to face them.

The other jetbikes kind of sat in the back and waited to take scoring positions. As Defenestratus said, you'll need to make sure you have at least a couple heavy hitters, but they form a solid base that can leverage their mobility quite a bit.

[davel]

1) yes bike seer councils are effective but expensive most successful ones are equipped with the following.

farseer with fortune a must for squad to work, runes of witnessing to help get fortune off ( a lot of anti psycic war gear out there), spirit stone (optional) as most people want a 2nd power.Runes of warding (as there are a lot of nasty psyics out there)

warlocks usually 5, 1 with embolden ( a lot of anti psycic war gear out there), one with enhance, rest with destrucor

extras tend to be blades over spears, as spears dilute the cc ability ( squad has few attacks any way), doom most seen extra power how ever it benefits army more than squad, mind war can drop power fist sergeants who instant kill you

leave at craft world conceal (no use to squad), guide ( your council will be heading head long towards foe and leaving shooty units behind) eldrich storm ( squad has multi destructor so can cover a large area with flame, if you assault a tank you hit back amour any way)

tactics
1) never forget to fortune your council ( though there are situation where winning the mission means some one else needs it).
2) use flamer attacks to hurt multi units
3) pick your assaults carefully. 1 power fist attack getting through can instant kill your farseer.
4) don't forget you can use that 6 inch assult move

extra nasty :autarch jet bik, mad,i laser lance joins them.

jet bike one of our best troop choices mission wise; 2 there good at grabbing objectives and in anilate good at hunting down those 1 man left squads; also fast enough to stay away from trouble and tougher.
Down side gone is the day when 3 you could hide behind woods and last min grab.
5 or 6 is better and reserves worth considering. Though the have no special rules this can keep them safe for a turn or 2 and they can speed on.
warlocks on JB are good the flexible spear/ destructor worth a mention. embolden is top of the list as when bike run they tend not to stop on the table.
other psykics JB benefit from doom, If situation becomes dire ( they must stay alive to win) fortune works well.

hope that helps

Dave l

[Silver Drakes Legion]

Seer councils on jetbikes are a big point sink but well worth it. It really depends on the person that plays them. Generally at least one enhance and one embolden. I personally always have two of each because you are bound to fail a save even with re roll. Destructors are good to add for a little anti-horde support or to create enough wounds to have the upper hand vs the people you will assault. Spears are nice to have but just one or two. I find a council needs to be at least 8 warlocks to be effective especially at 1750 and above.
Seer councils suck vs massive amounts of shots because the more dice you roll the less the rerolling matters.

An Autarch can be nice with fusion gun and either lance or power weapon and mandi. Good for popping the transport and the fact it's the only one in the council who will have grenades.

You will need fire prisms for some much needed anti tank though the seer council can do that you need those first shots so they can get across the bored to help you.

Jetbikes are good normally 7 at least including a warlock (spear optional) embolden generally bc ld8 you need the reroll ld and 2 cannons.

[davel]

there are some things that can ruin a seer council day. So be aware.

things that are designed to cause you no end of problems

libraians psycic hoods and null feild,death leaper, fast moving synapse (shadow of the warp), imperial guard psyker squad ( though runes of witnessing helps).DE Heamoli with anti psyker war gear or shatter shard, raiders with torment grenade launcher. old zogwort. special characters with weapons that by pass invunerables, cullexus assain and witch finder inquisitors.


also there are some things you should avoid eg terminators. Yes you may preveil but it may take you the entire game. other things need a little softening up before going in e.g tervigons.

dave l

[Splug]

One thing to consider when building a jetbike army is actually the monetary cost. Bikes are not cheap - you're looking at $15 each, plus a bit to convert farseers/warlocks. This is going to be far more than you'd spend on a similar point-value army built around infantry or skimmers.

As far as playing goes - the army can be effective, and jetbike councils can absolutely demolish an IG mech wall (fast-moving, S9 vs rear armor, can multiple assault several vehicles, and hard to kill - if they leave those chimeras stationary and close together, you can really land some damage). However, it is a very finesse-reliant army. A mistake, or even just a psychic hood, can quickly result in a 500+ point squad vanishing.

[Da Gargoyle]

In regards to conversions for warlocks and farseer, I bought a box of Elven cavalry. Their positions allow you to mount them on the jet bikes and for my Farseer it was just a matter of swapping heads and comming up with a suitable cloak. I used the spears from the cavalry pack to represent singing spears as they have the length and appropriately ornate spear head. This allows you to present figures that clearly vary from the normal troops.

I was lucky with my jet bikes, I bought a wind rider host when they released the appocalypes rules. 10 jet bikes. I suppliment these with wave serpents and falcons or fire prisms. Just because your infantry/troops are air mobile, does not mean you should leave your dragons and banshee/scorpions out of it.

[Lordgimpet]

Davel and i seem to be on the same page with eldar advice so no need for me to repeat his statements
but just to add that if you can add some shining spears in as well they can be used to deal with units that would bog down your seer council ie termies, the power weapons and hit and run become invaluable.

[Da Gargoyle]

Without knowing the basic points limit I came up with the following for 1000

Farseer on Bike Singing spear, mind war runes witnessing spirit stones guide ---------163
Sqd 9 Scorpions & exarch with chain sabres in Wave Serpent Missile launchers-------149 + 115 for transport
Sqd 4 fire dragons & exarch with fire pike in Wave Serpent Missile launchers--------- 100 + 115 for transport
Sqd 5 jet bikes with shuriken cannon Warlock with destructor singing spear------------178
Sqd 5 jet bikes with shuriken cannon Warlock with destructor singing spear------------178

Total - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------998

I must say though, I don' t use Psykers all that much. The last time I used a far seer like this I was killing tanks with his singing spear. I don't know that I have ever passed a psychic test in the half dozen games I have played. Except once and the Chaos marine psyker had some power that blew it back on me. I have only used one a half a dozen times to be honest.

I think the 1st couple of rounds should be spent irritating your opponent by popping up from cover and taking pot shots with the Cannon and then dropping out again. The psyker can assisit with re-rolls if I do pass a test. The last time I rolled 3 x 6 and then failed a perils of the warp attack.

I also think, if I get two more jet bikes with Shuriken cannon I can drop the sqds size to 3 with 4 sqds on the field. They would be a bit easier to break though and I could not afford more Warlocks. The warlocks have a nice tank killer, (Spear) troop chomper (Destructor) capability with the added toughness and armour save of the bike.

[davel]

da gargoyle

may be better off dropping guide for doom or dropping 2nd power and s stone for more troopers

most of your force is high bs orclose combat or twin linked any way so you won't see much benefit
how ever all can benifit from doom

the thing to remember with eldar psykers is (doom, fortune,guide) all have to be used before you move.

the thing to remeber with jet bikes ( and spiders) is don't forget their assult move.

dave l