Having trouble with nids

[Smotku]

Over the last several months I have found that no matter what army build or tactics I use I cant handle tyranids. The best I have done is swing a draw with my Blood Angels. I have been using mostly BA but i few games with my Tau have been total blow outs.

Most of the time it is the big bugs that prove to be so hard to take down. I would welcome any suggestions and advice from people who have had success.

[templarboy]

Can you give us more information about the armies that you are using? When I field my fexes and trygons I am spammed with krak missiles.
Some general advice I can give is to avoid assaulting an assault heavy 'nid army. Tar pit some of their MC's if you have to and barrage the heck out of the large gaunt units. Infiltrating 'stealers are hard to counter but they die like dogs if they over assault.
Anyway, tell us some strategies you have used and what armies you are using.

[Tynskel]

I recommend well rounded lists. As both a BA and Tyranid player, I regularly deal with the tactics of both armies.

1) Assault on your terms. Tyranids have trouble with charging into cover, while marines do not.
2) Counter Assault! Tyranids are effective on the charge, but if they become locked in combat, waiting for a big bug, that is the time to strike and free your Battle Brothers.
3) Shoooooot them. Tactical squads with flamers are useful at this point. Same with Assault Squads. Hand Flamers work well against bugs.

The trick is to thin their numbers, because their big bugs usually cannot kill fast enough without the help of the little bugs.

As for Tau:
1) get your rate of fire up. Burst Cannons! Constantly jump away. Sealthsuits can be very effective.
2) kroot. Do not have them foward, but instead have them near your firewarrior lines. Use them to counter assault: Rapid fire Pulse Weapons, then charge with the Kroot.
3) Big Bugs. They are always a problem for Tau--- but Plasma, Seeker Missiles, Railrifles, and Railguns are effective. Twin-linked Plasma Rifles with Railguns and Multi-trackers will cut a Monsterous Creature down in seconds! 3-Low AP shots a round per broadside. If you have been putting damage on the big bugs, this firepower will finish them off.
4) Specialist Gear: Fragmentation Launchers, Seeker Missile Crisis Suits-- hide n' shoot! Suicide Bomb-- if you get charged, you can hop away annihilating mobs. Oh, and the Hazard Suits are effective too.

[Xas]

With BA it is an easy task to explain good tactics compared to tau (older codex syndrome).

first make use of sanguinary priests and keep the out of combat as best as possible even against gaunts ( countless times a stray termagant bit down the crucial priest before succumbing to death and leaving the squad feeling naked to the onslought of attacks & shots in forther turns) by keeping them surrounded with your other models (doesnt work forever if you follow the rules correctly but can give you 1-2 phases).

secondly use missile launchers. they are cheap and perfect to take down both hordes with frag and biggies with krak. typhoon landspeeders are very good (as long as you keep 31 away from every hiveguard on the field. more if he has tervigons with onslaught) as they can also get a heavy flamer for emergency duty.

keep away from genestealers unless you absolutely have to. With assoult squads as troops you should never need to assoult the stealers (as you dont need to protect any tacticals to score an objective). if you want to "engage" them with your assoult elements, jump into cover near them and shoot boltpistols. then wait and let them charge so they strike at I1 (well worth it compared to the +1A you'd get if you charged them as now you have at least a chance with them only beeing t4 5+).

keep away from infantry mounted flamers. while you do good damage it will more often than not be a bad trade. rather take plasmaguns to deal with the big bugs (2 plasma wounds on a trygon can mean its end if you feel like rapid firing and have done enough wounds beforehand from range or with other weapons. a single s4 flamer template against a 20+ gaunt unit that might even be in cover so your bolters dont do much can very well end in desaster if you move forward to engage).

multicharge gaunts as often as possible. if you manage to tag most of your marines onto termagants a plain 10 man tactcal squad suddenly can get dangerous even to a monstrous creature (most preferably carnifex or trygon as a tyrant will make minced meat out of half your squad before you strike). get the fist onto the MC and the rest onto the gaunts and see how fearless wounds carry over (a tactical marine on the charge gets allmost one gaunt kill statistically so your looking to win ~ 9 vs 3, causing 6 armor saves and around 2 wounds. if your fist did its job well the big bug might be in severe trouble)!

dont be afraid of charging but also dont get overconfident (this is the hardest!). many tyranid creatures appear more dangerous than they are by simply beeing tyranids or haveing a trygon/tyrant as buddies nearby. zoantropes, hiveguard, biovores (if youe ver find someone play them), gaunts and even some builds of tyranid warriors (especially in low numbers and without rending claws or boneswords. if you ever see bonesword warriors run like hell and only turn around to shoot them with all you and your dog have got!) are susceptible to your marine statline combine with +A from charges.

additionally some bugs need the same treadment as enemy heavy artillery would warrant (tervigon & tyrannofex). get a unit to strike into your oponents army and take them out even if it costs you the unit. tervigons essentially are hughe sanguinary priests as they can grant FNP to a tyranid unit (which means suddenly gaunts laugh at bolters and flamers and monsters even ignore krak missiles!). the tyrannofex (/w rupture cannon) is equivalent to a landraider godhammer or trilas predator in terms of shooting the living hell out of your poor landspeeders&transports.

at the same time however you ahve to look out so you dont get into a trap. before you sacrify a strong unit to the unevitable countercharge with stealers/combat monsters be shure the target in question is still a treat (if all your vehicles are already gone the t-fex doesnt matter anymore) AND you can kill it b efore dying (cause both the t-fex and tervigon have a good chance of haveing the regeneration upgrade which lets them regain wounds with time. in addition they have many wounds with a good save and high toughness).



with tau you have the hughe problem that your weapons are all "just off" to be effective. either they are overkill (railguns neither need s10 nor ap1 to wound a MC on 2+ and ignore armor) or ineffective (mostly due to cover).

a thing to try out would be first and foremost the ioncannon armed hammerhead. it is cheap and better VS allmost all tyranids than kolossi. the railgun is only better VS small bugs with its template but then you run into the problem of cover negating much damage.

the flacete chargers (the upgrade that damages stuff which attacks your vehicles in melee) is also usefull sometimes (if your not shot down by hiveguard / zoantropes) as is the disruption pod.

other than that I cannot help you on that as my usualy games VS tau is to point & click 2 units of stealers and 2 units of hiveguard at the tau army and seem the struggle while the other ~1k of my army just watches and helps out if I roll really bad (or he passes all his saves somehow).

[Tynskel]

I completely disagree with not taking flamers. Flamers are one of the most useful weapons in the game--- especially against units like gaunts. You should be tank shocking and roasting, then charging. If you are not hitting at least 7-8 models with the flamer template, you are using them wrong.

[fuzzbuket]

for your Blood Angels

sanguine sword S10 will make short work of warriors and the like
handflamers and vanguard
THSS
stormravens
and

whirlwinds/devestaors and tacticals.


what id do is have a whirlwind (or two) a landraider and a dread/devs supported by a tac squad as a main firebase if it was objectives plenty of tacticals and flamery assault marines shold be fun :D


-fuzzbuket

p.s. blood claws <3 gaunts

[Smotku]

Thank you all very much for the advise. I have not run a set type of build for the blood angels. I have enough models to run a variety of things. I recently built some sternguard vets and they have worked well against other armies and i thing they should do well against nids. I usually run 1 or 2 vindies. I have been putting my assualt squads in basic land raiders. 1 or 2 in games over 1500. I have used rhinos and razorbacks as well. I have a Baal with tlac and h flamers. for hq i either run a librarian in tern armor or a reclusiarc or both. I have used a termy assualt squad in a crusader as well but dont think i have i ever had then against nids. I usually have 2 sangunary priests in the army.

The biggest problems i have encountered are multiple tervigons. the Doom, hive gurad, and the swarmlord with 3 tyrant guard or an equivalent hive tyrant. this the build i most frequently see and there are ussually one or two Trygons. Also i have encountered tyranofexes venothropes and ymrgal genestealers. Now I understand the answer to each particular unit its just that it seems to be to much at once. the worst part seems to be the ridiculas effectiveness of bug shooting. very rarely do I have vehicles that can shoot after the second turn. even the spore pods are dangerous. Every tyranid opponent i have played has dropped the doom in a pod and usually right behind a vindy, baal or rhino. I have absolutly no idea why people complain about the bugs or say they were nerfed.

[Nosmo75]

If you're having trouble taking down anything big in 40K, I recommend strict fire discipline. For one turn just blitz the hell out of whichever unit is giving you grief, or whichever unit you just simply don't like the look of. =)

[fuzzbuket]

ah nosmos your thinking like my inner eldar player.. there is no such thing as overkill in 40k :D


and smotku as your using sternguard how about: (ive not tried it out IRL)

sternguard of flameydeath (C)

sternguard 125
+5 vets 125
power fist+ boltgun 25
2 heavy flamers 20
8 combiflamers 40pts
drop pod (deathwind) 55

390pts 10 flamer templates :D ( and special ammo: poision for killing big bugz, dragonfires for venonthropes and kraken for hidden stealers :D) and a large blast !

if hes using a nidzilla list use plasma instead of combi flamers :D (or melta)