Auction Module?

[Bigred]

So you guys have sent up trial balloons every now and then for a dedicated auction interface for selling miniatures.

I want to get some feedback from you on this now that we are a bit down the road.

First of all, do you still want it, and would you peruse and use it? (poll above)

Secondly, the details.

How would you like to see it set up? Things like categories, credits for use, ways to keep the auctions legit, keep out spammers, etc...

There are several options for how to provide this service, so I want to get the regular's opinions nice and early.

Have at it gang.

-Larry

[Lerra]

I'd be interested, depending on the details of how the system worked.

What do you mean by "credits for use"?

[Drew da Destroya]

I'd be interested... save some time trawling Ebay. Especially if you could categorize by game, faction/army, and possibly sub-divide by condition of model...

New-In-box
Used, Unpainted
Used, Painted
Bitz

Single Model
Unit
Vehicle
Monster
Apocalypse/Large-Scale?

Definitely would be interested in buying bitz, anyway...

PayPal integration would be pretty necessary, to protect buyer and seller both.

[Grailkeeper]

Would it be part of the forum or seperate? would it take over the site? or would it be on a the same level as say the arcade section?

Generally though I'd be in favour of it provided it doesn't dramatically change the site or fill it with ads

[BuFFo]

Bartertown has gone down into the dumps over the years, and there would be no better place I would rather trade/sell for 40k than here on BoLs.

I have zero experience with auction sites, so I cannot provide any opinions. Maybe only allow people who have a certain amount of posts be able ot use the auction forum? maybe 200 posts? Something decently high enough to ensure spammers and cheaters won't use the forum, but only people with a 'reputation' can use the forum?

[fuzzbuket]

how about intergrating it into a fourm

so instead of

// heres my new models - ebay link

to heres my new models [click to buy]



as for categories how about people sell bitz to BOLS and then BOLS sells the bits of? as well as commision (paint/sculpt) and a used minis section??

also a EU section would be nice

-fuzz

[Grailkeeper]

. Maybe only allow people who have a certain amount of posts be able ot use the auction forum? maybe 200 posts? Something decently high enough to ensure spammers and cheaters won't use the forum, but only people with a 'reputation' can use the forum?

Good idea, but you'd have to stop people spamming messages just to bump up their number.

[fuzzbuket]

@ grail keeper


are you doubting the almightyness of the MODS?

[Renegade]

Yes, but as long as it is simple to find what I am looking for, in the condition I am looking for, and has a currency converter and says where it is being brought from.
Maybe something that brings it up on a users profile that indicates when they have an item to trade.

@ Fuzzbuket, how long have you been visiting this site?

[SotonShades]

I think I could be persuaded in to using it. I haven't bought a whole lot of 40k stuff from eBay or other auction sites, often as not because the people selling don't always know what they are selling, if it is complete etc.

i like the idea of having a commissions section (partly as I'm trying to get into that myself) as well as bitz. Think the previous commentors have made some pretty good suggetions, especially fuzzbucket's suggestion of different sections for where people are based. I'm sure none of us want to buy a model and then find we are paying twice as much again to get it posted.

[DrLove42]

I like the idea but i question the practicality of it for anything outside of boxed minis and bits.

And out of these boxed are likely to cost a little more than they do in stores anyway, and theres already hundereds of bitz sites out there

It wouldn't work IMO for painted work. We simply don't get the traffic/market to sell peoples work that places like CMON and Dakka get...let alone the titan that is eBay.

Maybe a service for centralizing all the places that do commision work

[JxKxR]

Maybe just start it small scale in a forum like fuzzbucket said. Make sure the buyer knows where it is coming from. I wouldn't go with Buffo's idea just because it was more than a year of me checking this site out before I ever posted anything. There are a lot of people who like this site, but just don't have anything to add. If you did the credits system that would be the kiss of death. Whatever you decide to do, DO NOT do the credits.

If it was up to me I would just do a forum where people can sell and trade bits.

[BuFFo]

I wouldn't go with Buffo's idea just because it was more than a year of me checking this site out before I ever posted anything. There are a lot of people who like this site, but just don't have anything to add.

Thats exactly why this would work. You may have good intentions, but people who rips people off would just descend on this site after their IPS and names get banned on other trading sites.

We should have standards instead of a free for all 'no security' trading forum. If you want the privilege of a free trading forum with good reputation and security, you need to work to get it.

[fuzzbuket]

@ renegade

2 or maybe 3 years? as a registered lounge user possibly more as a lurker? why are you intrested?



oh and a new idea: see the ebay boxes along the side of the main page?

look at the ebay boxes on the side, those boxes are now commisions (like CMON) anything is possible with the BOLS wargames service..... im on a horse

[Atrocity]

While good in theory BuFFo, the problem here is that you are wanting to exclude a certain (probably large) part of the possible users. If the idea is to make this thing as successful as possible, then you can't alienate a large portion of your would-be users.

You are completely on point on the fact that there needs to be some kind of reassurance and protection from those that would misrepresent, back-out on deals, etc. The key here is going to be providing security, while at the same time not limiting a huge portion of the people who are actually would use the system. A 200 post limit, while a good start for an idea, has no guarantee that the person isn't a deadbeat who just happens to post a lot or have been on the site for a while (though I can't think of a single system that would prevent this). Your proposed idea also excludes people who have been coming to the site for years and have either no real interests in forums, or have never noticed the little box on the right mid-way down the page. I'd been visiting BoLs for a year or so before I finally made a forum account, and I don't post in subjects I have no opinion, nothing relevant to add, or severe inexperience in (read: pretty much most things outside of CSM).

200 posts is a pretty big requirement for a forum that isn't as active as warseer and dakkadakka, among others. Honestly, there just needs to be more ideas thrown out there as to how to provide this security.

I do like the idea of doing a UK section or mirror, or an area that has items that are willing to ship internationally. Breaking down sub forums into specific armies is useful, however you'd need a way to "tag" the different forums you want it posted in if you either want a lot of things or have a lot of things. This would help cut down on having to do a lot of posts, but may or may not be a valid idea. The other problem is that there may be too many sub forums for the amount of posts. A bitz sub forum is a great idea. As to what you should include (or exclude), there is definitely a lot that can be learned just from looking at the competition.

[JxKxR]

Thats exactly why this would work. You may have good intentions, but people who rips people off would just descend on this site after their IPS and names get banned on other trading sites.

We should have standards instead of a free for all 'no security' trading forum. If you want the privilege of a free trading forum with good reputation and security, you need to work to get it.

I wasn't trying to say it should have no security I was just saying that a post limit would exclude a lot of people, and 200 post is a lot I've been posting pretty steadily for over a year now and I don't have 200.

If you really want security then the only thing I could think of would be paying for an account. Have regular accounts and then a gold account to be able to sell.

[BuFFo]

While good in theory BuFFo, the problem here is that you are wanting to exclude a certain (probably large) part of the possible users. If the idea is to make this thing as successful as possible, then you can't alienate a large portion of your would-be users.

You are completely on point on the fact that there needs to be some kind of reassurance and protection from those that would misrepresent, back-out on deals, etc. The key here is going to be providing security, while at the same time not limiting a huge portion of the people who are actually would use the system. A 200 post limit, while a good start for an idea, has no guarantee that the person isn't a deadbeat who just happens to post a lot or have been on the site for a while (though I can't think of a single system that would prevent this). Your proposed idea also excludes people who have been coming to the site for years and have either no real interests in forums, or have never noticed the little box on the right mid-way down the page. I'd been visiting BoLs for a year or so before I finally made a forum account, and I don't post in subjects I have no opinion, nothing relevant to add, or severe inexperience in (read: pretty much most things outside of CSM).

200 posts is a pretty big requirement for a forum that isn't as active as warseer and dakkadakka, among others. Honestly, there just needs to be more ideas thrown out there as to how to provide this security.

I do like the idea of doing a UK section or mirror, or an area that has items that are willing to ship internationally. Breaking down sub forums into specific armies is useful, however you'd need a way to "tag" the different forums you want it posted in if you either want a lot of things or have a lot of things. This would help cut down on having to do a lot of posts, but may or may not be a valid idea. The other problem is that there may be too many sub forums for the amount of posts. A bitz sub forum is a great idea. As to what you should include (or exclude), there is definitely a lot that can be learned just from looking at the competition.


I wasn't trying to say it should have no security I was just saying that a post limit would exclude a lot of people, and 200 post is a lot I've been posting pretty steadily for over a year now and I don't have 200.

If you really want security then the only thing I could think of would be paying for an account. Have regular accounts and then a gold account to be able to sell.


... 200 posts was just random number I picked out of thin air. Have a better idea that doesn't include paying for an account, because other sites do it better already, and for free?

Because if I wanted to rip someone off, i would pay the 5 bucks to be a gold member, and just rip off a few people out of a couple hundred bucks worth of stuff.

In the end, I think the trader forum/module should be kept free, and probably simple. People run the risk, and there is nothing we can really do about it.

Just copy other sites, and have posters place Comments on other traders, so people can look up the comments before trading to see if the person is trustworthy.

Also, a general rule of trading is that a person who has more 'positive' comments trades last. If I have 10 positive comments, and you have 5, you send the money first, and I send the army second. Works on Bartertown. I love that system. It isn't required, but most people trade that way.

[DrLove42]

Also, a general rule of trading is that a person who has more 'positive' comments trades last. If I have 10 positive comments, and you have 5, you send the money first, and I send the army second. Works on Bartertown. I love that system. It isn't required, but most people trade that way.

Thats what paypals for...get confirmation of payment, then send it. If it don't get sent then you can claim it back from PP

And paypal protects the buyer. Unless someone is willing to act as an overseer of all transactions, the idea of passing online credit details is horrific. Posting money even worse

And basically no one has cheque books anymore

[Denzark]

I am in favour of this. I see some headings:

Financial. Insist on paypal. Don't try to run your own money system, too complicated, opens you to liability.

Terms & Conditions. Make people re-click terms and conditions that clearly state BoLS has no responsibility.

Breakdown of headings. It needs to be its own subforum, with multiple headings. An obvious split should be armies/games systems. Also bitz. Also a place where bad sellers/buyers can be named and shamed for safety. Also SALES and WANTS - so people could list what they are after, as well as pot luck being taken.

I also like buffo's idea to stop spammers - a minimum post count. Also doom, and publishing IP/email address of any cheats who try and con people - make it a term and condition of use. We can then all spam their systems to death with trojans and email bombs should they welsh on a deal.

[Atrocity]

... 200 posts was just random number I picked out of thin air. Have a better idea that doesn't include paying for an account, because other sites do it better already, and for free?

Because if I wanted to rip someone off, i would pay the 5 bucks to be a gold member, and just rip off a few people out of a couple hundred bucks worth of stuff.

In the end, I think the trader forum/module should be kept free, and probably simple. People run the risk, and there is nothing we can really do about it.

Just copy other sites, and have posters place Comments on other traders, so people can look up the comments before trading to see if the person is trustworthy.

Also, a general rule of trading is that a person who has more 'positive' comments trades last. If I have 10 positive comments, and you have 5, you send the money first, and I send the army second. Works on Bartertown. I love that system. It isn't required, but most people trade that way.

^This. I wholeheartedly agree. I think the overwhelming majority of people who are wanting to participate in this kind of thing want it for free (if you were to poll them). Bartertown is easily the best example of a working system.

I also agree with pretty much everything Denzark has written, minus the retaliation thing. But hey if that's your cup of tea, and BoLS is down with it, more power to you. The Bad Traders/Backouts forum is pretty much a must if it is free. And assuming PayPal doesn't want any/much money for the association with BoLS then that would probably be the ideal solution.

[BuFFo]

Thats what paypals for...get confirmation of payment, then send it. If it don't get sent then you can claim it back from PP

And paypal protects the buyer. Unless someone is willing to act as an overseer of all transactions, the idea of passing online credit details is horrific. Posting money even worse

And basically no one has cheque books anymore

I don't use paypal. I send checks or money orders. I don't approve of the paypal fees at all.

The majority of people still use checks and money orders. Not everyone is a 22 year old male ya know. :)


We can then all spam their systems to death with trojans and email bombs should they welsh on a deal.

Agreed. I have-a-shotgun!

[Defenestratus]

The majority of people still use checks and money orders. Not everyone is a 22 year old male ya know.

Really?

I've sold well over $10,000 worth of "crap" on eBay - and I can count on one hand the number of people that wanted to pay with a check or money order. I'll be thankful when checks are done away with in the near future.

Paper-based transactions are not suitable to online goods exchange. Nine times out of ten, people wanting to pay with a check or money order are trying to defraud you with bogus payment.

Personally I'd rather fork over a certain percentage of the transaction to paypal in exchange for the peace of mine knowing that there is a degree of security in the transaction - and when the money shows up in my bank account - it's going to stay there.

[BuFFo]

Really?

I've sold well over $10,000 worth of "crap" on eBay - and I can count on one hand the number of people that wanted to pay with a check or money order. I'll be thankful when checks are done away with in the near future.

How do your experiences somehow change mine?

Inquiring minds would like to know.

Oh, since it's the internet, I have sold/trades 20,000 dollars worth of stuff. So my story obviously trumps yours.

- edit -

Make it infinity +1 for good measure.

[eagleboy7259]

I would just copy DakkaDakka's format. www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/247459.page It seems to work pretty well for them while allowing the mods to have a much less active need for involvement. The most intellegent plans don't have to be homebrewed, they can be borrowed from others sucess. Ours should ideally include areas for:

-Comission Work - Painting service list done as a permanent forum post locked and updated by Mods. WIP's posted through gallery.
-Bits Trade - People asking for specific bits instead of people selling specific bits. Keeps it junk free and prevents people from trying to sell common bits.
-Selling Models / Units - Require pics, description, asking price, etc.

Also have you thought of adding a Match subsection? An area like that would allow players to:

-Ask for a Match based on area, skill level, etc. - caters to paint snobs, new players with smaller armies looking to get a match, specific matches for Apoc, Planetstrike, Roleplaying which are harder to set up on the fly on weekends
-Advertise for Tournements - especially good for smaller, local tournaments with less advertizing.
-Network with members from same area without broadcasting specific personal information over the internet

[BuFFo]

Sound like great ideas!

[Drew da Destroya]

Also have you thought of adding a Match subsection? An area like that would allow players to:

-Ask for a Match based on area, skill level, etc. - caters to paint snobs, new players with smaller armies looking to get a match, specific matches for Apoc, Planetstrike, Roleplaying which are harder to set up on the fly on weekends
-Advertise for Tournements - especially good for smaller, local tournaments with less advertizing.
-Network with members from same area without broadcasting specific personal information over the internet


Isn't this already part of the region-specific forums already included in the current setup? You know, waaaaaay down the list, where nobody goes?

[fuzzbuket]

for once i agree that that seems like a good way to go with dakka, however a little box at the side with a random auction colud be nice

and if you do what? 3 posts a day within 4 months youve hit 200, id say 150 posts would be a better number

[Grailkeeper]

Would Bols make any money out of this like Ebay?

a simple way if Bols isn't (I'm not begrudging you the oppertunity) would simply have a commissions section in the lounge where people who want to be commissioned can make themselves know and link to their work in the gallery/ their blog. People could tehn contact them their with what ever tehy want commissioned. Let the customers figure out their own means of payment (let teh market decide?) I've seen Machinator do this with some parts of his awesome fellblade collection.

basically turn a bit of the lounge into a meeting place rather than a trading place per se?

Buffo you know more about this than me, would this work?

[BuFFo]

Would Bols make any money out of this like Ebay?

a simple way if Bols isn't (I'm not begrudging you the oppertunity) would simply have a commissions section in the lounge where people who want to be commissioned can make themselves know and link to their work in the gallery/ their blog. People could tehn contact them their with what ever tehy want commissioned. Let the customers figure out their own means of payment (let teh market decide?) I've seen Machinator do this with some parts of his awesome fellblade collection.

basically turn a bit of the lounge into a meeting place rather than a trading place per se?

Buffo you know more about this than me, would this work?

Keep this in mind....

BoLs runs ad space for paying advertisers.

If people just started to come onto a forum/module and 'advertised' for free, there would be a clash of interest between BoLs and their paying advertisers.

If any kind of advertising was allowed, it would most likely have to be for a fee.

I, in NO way, pretend to know how BoLs runs things. I am just going off of what I think is common sense for these kinds of arrangements.

Let me put it this way... If BoLs sells ad space for ONLY retailers, I see no issue with people advertising commission services, but if BoLs sells ad space for commission sites/people, then it would be a conflict of interest.

All this is just my opinion, and only Bigred and company would know the answer to this, and it would be UNFAIR to ask them about this, putting 'friends' on the spot about business and such.

Whatever BoLs decides to do,I am sure it will be fair. They aren't big enough to be dicks yet. Give BoLs a few more years and they'll be as self centered and business oriented as Bartertown is now. Bartertown was a free place to advertise, but now you can't because they went all dollar signs on the community.

:)

[Bigred]

keep up the great ideas,

I am doing research and taking notes on what the community wants to see.

but I can say that primary considerations are:

-usability by the broadest set of users
-ease of use
-protection against mass auction spammers

[BuFFo]

keep up the great ideas,

I am doing research and taking notes on what the community wants to see.

but I can say that primary considerations are:

-usability by the broadest set of users
-ease of use
-protection against mass auction spammers

A comment section for each user so people can read up on users and see what past dealings were like with said person.

[sangrail777]

Yes,
Paypal
aknowledgement for shipping to APO addresses please (Hoorah for Soldiers!)

[shrike]

Do something like dakka's swap shop.:D

[Mr.Pickelz]

I would like to see two separate threads(like 40k general discussion and 40k tatics), where buyers and sellers register and have it updated with feedback that would include both pros and/or cons: ease of contact, shipping issues, correct item(s),etc...

as well as a black list thread that would include people or online names of people to avoid.