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oldone
12-06-2010, 02:52 PM
so its been nearly 6 months of 8th editions so what do you think of it? whats good, bad, and the damn right funny of the it. weather from gaming to the way GW and have put the spot light on different types of units
so what you all think of 8th?

Farseer Uthiliesh
12-06-2010, 04:56 PM
so its been nearly 6 months of 8th editions so what do you think of it? whats good, bad, and the damn right funny of the it. weather from gaming to the way GW and have put the spot light on different types of units
so what you all think of 8th?

I love it. Warhammer is played almost on a weekly basis with my group. Plus, it's the edition that got myself and my brother back into wargaming.

Kieranator K82
12-07-2010, 12:41 AM
I think it's great. I haven't played that many games though, as 40k still dominates the local area.

odinsgrandson
12-07-2010, 10:41 AM
The changes in the game balance actually got a number of our local players out of the game, while others are super happy that their forces are so much more playable than they once were.

I think we have a Skaven player who thinks the new rules set is just fine, and a Dark Elf player who is too annoyed that he can't take all his bolt throwers to the field.

From here, it looks like a wash.

Drew da Destroya
12-07-2010, 01:27 PM
This is the first edition I've actually played WHFB, and it's been a lot of fun. I had read last edition's rulebook, but my gaming group wasn't ready to take the plunge yet. 8th coming out provided a good "starting point" for all of us.

Still, though, we don't play very often... maybe once every month or two. Probably pick up more once we're done our 40k campaign, although that likely won't be until next year.

It definitely provides a nice break from 40k... the rules are more divergent than I expected, and the strategies required seem a lot different!

...just need some more square bases... round bases don't rank up very well!

Frimbleglim
12-12-2010, 02:28 PM
Dreadful. As I am primarily a wood elf player (my other army being Vampire counts) the rules make my army dramatical less effective by means of the double blow of making everyone else more manuverable (thanks to fast reforms) and making a high initiative value next to useless.

I'm also quickly coming to realise that Games Workshop is not even trying to make the game balanced. They just want to make their latest models better than everything else so that more people will buy them. As a student' I'm unlikely to be able to continue with this hobby. Many games I play are pretty much a foregone conclusion with my army wiped out long before the last turn. In fact, as soon as I see my opponent's force line up I can tell I don't stand a chance. I recently bought another £200 worth or so of models which should allow me to play pretty much the optimal army for my list but the game is so unbalanced even this won't challenge even most non-tournament armies.

If GW are going to publish a new edition so frequently then they really need to update the armies as well. They don't even need to publish books, an internet update would do. But as soon as the new edition is released they update not the weakest armies but those that are already strong (high elves). And then they make them even better. I'm seriously considering looking for a different game to play.

mynameisgrax
12-15-2010, 12:57 PM
All in all, 8th edition made the game far more playable and accessible, especially to new players. Although many complain about the game's new focus on large blocks of troops, I like how it balanced a lot of the armies, and also brought the game a little more in line with real life ancient war strategies. I also really like the changes to monstrous infantry and monsters in general, making them all a lot more effective.

That said, the main problem with the edition is magic. Although it's not as easy for an army to dominate the magic phase, it's gotten incredibly easy for a single spell to determine the outcome of the game. Some of the spells are now just far too powerful, now that you can virtually guarantee that it'll be cast with irresistible force by throwing 6+ dice at it. The main 'problem' spells are Pit of Shades, Purple Sun, Dwellers Below, Infernal Gateway, and the Dreaded 13th spell. Any one of these spells can easily end an army's chances to win, and often as early as turn 2.

I think the solution is just a tweaking of the magic phase, not an overhaul of the edition itself.

Although I don't agree with Frimbleglim's opinion of it being dreadful, I have to admit, Wood Elves really got screwed by the changes. They really need a new army book, and fast.

Albavar
12-16-2010, 08:03 AM
Funny thing is, my Wood Elves pretty much laid dormant since 5th Edition. Now that I am picking them back up, it plays pretty similarly. I missed the whole wild rider spam and such stage. Just what you are used to I guess.

Frimbleglim
12-16-2010, 10:49 AM
I havn't used mine since 2005 or so. They are definately weeker when played against competative players. (We are talking 1500pt two hydra dark elf armies with massed crosbows here)

mikethefish
12-16-2010, 07:31 PM
I think it's pretty hilarious that the very first army book for this edition is going to be released about NINE MONTHS after 8th edition dropped.

NonComPoop
12-17-2010, 10:45 AM
I'd say that for the most part I am very pleased with the changes in 8th edition. Melee combat seems more decisive, shooting is a little more effective. Warmachines have been made worth thier points.
The only thing that I have a problem with is the % based list building. More specificly the fact that lord level heros may be taken in any sized games. The rest of the % based system is awesome but I feel it's game unbalancing when a player can take a lord level caster in a small points game. I just find it makes for lazy gaming/herohammer.

cerebros
12-18-2010, 02:05 PM
If GW are going to publish a new edition so frequently then they really need to update the armies as well. They don't even need to publish books, an internet update would do. But as soon as the new edition is released they update not the weakest armies but those that are already strong (high elves). And then they make them even better. I'm seriously considering looking for a different game to play.

High Elves haven't had an update. The only thing they got given was the pretty pointless "Elite Army" rule rule that allows them to take double the amount of each type of special or rare unit than everyone else. Big whoop. If you're taking 6 units of the same type in any game up to 2999 points they're not going to be much use when (if) they make it to combat.

Overall High Elves took a kicking from the rules changes with there no longer being partials plus step up (the ASF re-rolls are pretty much nullified by this) plus having to take 25% of pretty average, bordering on poor for the points, Core troops.

Frimbleglim
12-19-2010, 05:08 AM
High elves are not a weak army all the same. Quite the opposite in fact.

eldargal
12-19-2010, 06:12 AM
8th Edition is the best core rulset for WFB that I have known. It pits armies against each other instead of a band of warriors like 7th. Honestly, I remember playing 7th ed games with fewer models on the table than a game of 40k at the same points. Just absurd.

The one concern I have regarding 8th is how it evolves as new army books are released. I hope, given the quality of the latest codices and army books that they are well balanced and maintain the current feel of the game.

subbeast
12-19-2010, 08:51 PM
I think it's pretty hilarious that the very first army book for this edition is going to be released about NINE MONTHS after 8th edition dropped.

Good point actually, what's up with that??

I like the changes as an Ogre player, except casting of course, but that's because OK are magically challenged more than anything else... Once the dispel scrolls run out, look out!

Frimbleglim
12-20-2010, 11:01 AM
Good point actually, what's up with that??

I like the changes as an Ogre player, except casting of course, but that's because OK are magically challenged more than anything else... Once the dispel scrolls run out, look out!

Only one dispel scroll per army these days subbeast.

mikethefish
12-21-2010, 02:50 AM
Good point actually, what's up with that??!

What's up with that is that 40k makes a ton more money than Fantasy, so GW tends to devote a whole lot more of their time and resources to it - rather than doing what would make more sense and try and push/support Fantasy more so that it looked more attractive to 40k players. But hey, whatever *shrug*

Dimetri1
01-07-2011, 07:43 PM
After 60 or so games I really dislike 8th. I have started playing War Machine.
I played with four gaming groups in an eighty mile radius. Three of these groups do not play WHFB anymore. Out of five LGS run tournaments four were canceled due to lack of interest and the fifth only had six players show up.At the last con in this area the WHFB attendance was half what it normally was. I have stopped playing 8th because I feel it is a terrible rules set. I have taken up WARMACHINE which I find to be a far superior game system.

Dimetri1
01-16-2011, 12:52 PM
duplicate post.

gcsmith
01-16-2011, 03:19 PM
The minuses of new set over old?

The pluses are greater, Los required, making the game easier, comps and counter comps. which means more skill involved in playing

Rusty Nail
01-17-2011, 01:23 PM
I like some, (probably most if I'm honest), of the changes but it's become Magichammer to a certain degree and I really get ticked off with the rolling of all the weird terrain etc.. at the start of the game - if you could limit some of the magic spells and items, (i.e. dwellers and power scrolls), and go back to normal terrain then I'd be almost as happy as the guy who gets paid to rub suntan lotion onto Rachael Stevens

gcsmith
01-17-2011, 03:13 PM
I dnt think its truely magic hammer, just people go big units and moan when they all die to one spell, either get some wizzards or go msu.
Poeple need to learn that there is counters now, magic can counter big units.

Sadly I depend on magic being HE player, Havnt got shooting to compete or toughness so need magic.

Rusty Nail
01-18-2011, 02:46 AM
You say it's not Magichammer but then say "get some wizards", which to my mind suggests you can't win without Magic, hence Magichammer.

Nikephoros
01-18-2011, 05:53 AM
You say it's not Magichammer but then say "get some wizards", which to my mind suggests you can't win without Magic, hence Magichammer.

That's a retarded statement. You can't win in 40k without shooting units, should you call the game shootinghammer? Magic is an important part of warhammer fantasy and rightly so, as is shooting, as is close combat. Ignore one of those phases at your own risk, but have the brains not to complain about your loss when it inevitably happens.

Rusty Nail
01-18-2011, 06:43 AM
That's a retarded statement. You can't win in 40k without shooting units, should you call the game shootinghammer? Magic is an important part of warhammer fantasy and rightly so, as is shooting, as is close combat. Ignore one of those phases at your own risk, but have the brains not to complain about your loss when it inevitably happens.

Really, you can't win without shooting, I manage okay playing WoC, as do several other players that I know of and not just with Warriors either

Oh and where am I complaing about losing?

For the record my current record for WHFB 8th edition escalation league is Played 6 won 3, drawn 1, and lost 2. Apart from the league I've played 4 games won 3 and lost 1.

gcsmith
01-18-2011, 11:17 AM
saying take a wizard is just advice for those covinced its magic hammer.

I don't think its magic hammer as magic can all too easily be countered and go wrong.
Sadly HE rely on magic so I need to use it as much as possible.

Nikephoros
01-18-2011, 06:50 PM
Really, you can't win without shooting, I manage okay playing WoC, as do several other players that I know of and not just with Warriors either


Your list may not include shooting units (why you dont use hellcannons is beyond me and besides the point) but I bet you take your opponent's shooting phase into consideration in your planning. My point is you can't just ignore shooting and pretend it doesn't exist anymore than you can ignore magic and pretend it doesn't exist. And if you do ignore those, you do so at your own risk.

Bean
02-06-2011, 10:04 PM
Really, you can't win without shooting, I manage okay playing WoC, as do several other players that I know of and not just with Warriors either

Oh and where am I complaing about losing?

For the record my current record for WHFB 8th edition escalation league is Played 6 won 3, drawn 1, and lost 2. Apart from the league I've played 4 games won 3 and lost 1.


He said you can't win in 40k without shooting--pointing out that your Warriors of Chaos army doesn't have any shooting doesn't refute his position at all.

The point is that being forced to participate in a particular element of the game in order to win doesn't mean that that's the only element of the game that's important. You have to move in fantasy in order to win, but you're not calling it "movehammer." You have to kill enemy units to win in fantasy, but you're not calling it "killhammer."

The magic phase used to be participation optional--you could take your two dice, maybe dispel a spell, and suck up the rest because, for the most part, magic just wasn't that devastating.

Now it is, and you're going to have a hard time of it if you don't try to participate in the magic phase--but that doesn't make it "magic-hammer." Frankly, eighth edition just brought magic to the point where it's about as important as the other main mechanics--movement, combat, and shooting, instead of being a funny side-show that only occasionally mattered.

Drachenprinzen
02-07-2011, 12:03 AM
Saying it's "magichammer" because someone says bring a wizard is like saying you took the spare tire out of your car because it was heavy and you wanted a better power to weight ratio. You know you're going to need it eventually, but you chose to leave it in the garage collecting dust; its your own fault for leaving it behind.

Sure, some armies are more powerful in the magic phase, but every army has its strengths and weaknesses; plan accordingly.

Drachenprinzen
02-07-2011, 12:11 AM
Back on topic:

I actually just started playing WFB in October, but so far I've enjoyed myself. I play High Elves (ASF intriuged me) and have so far won 4, tied 1 and lost 3 games. I have studied both 7th and 8th edition rules and I definitely like the 8th better.
The main difference I like is the altered magic lores. Also, I believe the percentage based points system makes more sense versus the 7th edition variant.
One change I have mixed feelings about is the roll for charge distance instead of double normal movement distance.

Vaktathi
02-15-2011, 03:41 PM
My impression of 8th is as such.

7th died out because of a two or three armies, but primarily Daemons, dominating the crap out of the game. Since the Daemon book release I noticed player attendance at events and play nights decrease dramatically until nobody showed up but the VC and Daemon players. Literally the last two players that kept showing up were playing VC and Daemons. Everyone else quit.

As such, there's a glut of players who quite fantasy 7th. For many who played Daemons, Vampire Counts, and to a lesser extent Dark Elves, the 8th Edition rules meant they were no longer so dramatically more powerful than everyone else, and many of them stopped playing as well.


However, with 8th edition what I've seen a lot more of is newer players more than anything, and people who quit playing during 7th because of Daemons.

The current rules do have their issues to be sure, especially with magic uber spells, however I think the game is much more intuitive, balanced, and flexible than it was in 7th, and a lot less fiddly over tiny little things. There's no longer One or Two armies to "rule them all", and the game has shifted a little bit away from the all heavy cavalry armies of 7th. Infantry dominate the game, units like Chaos Warriors have become much more useful and a lot scarier, and the game just looks more visually impressive (to me at least).

Morgan Darkstar
02-15-2011, 06:41 PM
Me and my 10000pt+ Warriors of Chaos army "including 150 Chaos Warriors" Agree entirely with your statements :)

Bean
02-16-2011, 03:52 AM
My impression of 8th is as such.

7th died out because of a two or three armies, but primarily Daemons, dominating the crap out of the game. Since the Daemon book release I noticed player attendance at events and play nights decrease dramatically until nobody showed up but the VC and Daemon players. Literally the last two players that kept showing up were playing VC and Daemons. Everyone else quit.

As such, there's a glut of players who quite fantasy 7th. For many who played Daemons, Vampire Counts, and to a lesser extent Dark Elves, the 8th Edition rules meant they were no longer so dramatically more powerful than everyone else, and many of them stopped playing as well.


However, with 8th edition what I've seen a lot more of is newer players more than anything, and people who quit playing during 7th because of Daemons.

The current rules do have their issues to be sure, especially with magic uber spells, however I think the game is much more intuitive, balanced, and flexible than it was in 7th, and a lot less fiddly over tiny little things. There's no longer One or Two armies to "rule them all", and the game has shifted a little bit away from the all heavy cavalry armies of 7th. Infantry dominate the game, units like Chaos Warriors have become much more useful and a lot scarier, and the game just looks more visually impressive (to me at least).

Yeah, I played Daemons in 7th. They were quite, quite good, and the did get a bit of a hit in eighth--my all-Tzeentch flying circus army was very good and is now unplayably bad (20-ish power dice made up for having no combat ability--what you get now, with Winds of Magic, just doesn't).

Still, my Tzeentch/Khorne armies are perfectly competitive, even in Eighth. The nerfs to Daemons didn't really hurt Bloodletters and Heralds of Khorne at all. Bloodthirsters are still good (a little more vulnerable, but added Thunderstomp is pretty sweet). Flamers are still great (now they can march and shoot, which is totally worth having to form pseudo-ranks). Fateweaver, Skulltaker, and Master of Sorcery Heralds are all still good, as are Flesh-hounds, Bloodcrushers, Flamers.

Or, in other words, I have a hard time seeing Daemon players quitting because of changes to their armies--sure, they're not in tight competition for absolute best army in the game, but they're still quite good and perfectly playable.

Farseer Uthiliesh
02-16-2011, 05:51 AM
I really get ticked off with the rolling of all the weird terrain etc.. at the start of the game

No one is forcing you to roll magic terrain. My group never use it.

Mazelf
02-17-2011, 03:53 PM
LOOOOOVE the new shooting and magic phase rules!

Dyrnwyn
03-08-2011, 12:19 PM
I can't say 8th is unplayably bad - but the changes have negatively impacted some of the Fantasy community here. I stopped playing, mostly because my army (Wood Elves) was not only severely hampered by 8th ed changes, but flat out made it illegal. I didn't have 25% core for 2k points. I don't want to have to build movement trays for my Skirmishers.

I'm really disappointed in 8th. I'm currently entirely out of 40k because of 'power creep' becoming 'power leaps and bounds' and the push towards bigger and fancier model kits. Unfortunately, it looks like Fantasy is beginning to go this way as well, what with that huge spider in the OnG book. I'll wait and see what my next army book looks like, but currently, I'm sidelining it with Hordes and Warmachine.

A Dark Elf player curently refuses to play because High Elves now get 'Hatred+' in the form of ASF allowing constant re-rolls to hit. A couple other people with Wood Elves just gave up and brought other armies when 8th hit. There are plenty of people playing fantasy locally, but I've noticed that the majority of them are High Elf and Skaven players. Perhaps they're new to the game after buying Island of Blood. The other thing I've noticed is that since the release of 8th, Warmachine and Hordes have just exploded locally. Used to be you'd see 6 games of 40k, 0-4 games of fantasy, and about 2 Warmahordes games on games nights. These days it's more like 3 40k, 0-3 Fantasy, and 4-6 Warmahordes. I'd like to say that it's unrelated, but I doubt it.

L192837465
03-10-2011, 03:41 PM
I quit playing, mainly because of slaans and High Elves with power scrolls removing entire units of my army off the board. Magic defense doesn't mean crap when they can throw 5+ dice at "remove entire unit" spells MULTIPLE TIMES A TURN.

RudeboyJefe
03-10-2011, 05:42 PM
i quit playing, mainly because of slaans and high elves with power scrolls removing entire units of my army off the board. Magic defense doesn't mean crap when they can throw 5+ dice at "remove entire unit" spells multiple times a turn.

lies i know for a fact you haven't played an 8th edition game!!! :d

Rusty Nail
03-11-2011, 04:25 AM
Well I've finally decided to stop playing 8th Edition, as I said above, played a fair few games with it, (won more than I lost), and only really enjoyed 2 of them and that was down to the opponents rather than the game itself, contrast this with the 40k double tournament I played in down in Nottingham where I enjoyed every single game in a full on tournament environment and it is time to stop.

I think the really annoying thing is that they got a lot of things right with the new edition but now there is, for me at least, too much magic and too much randomness rolling for charges etc, and having to spend an age before actully playing deciding what each building or terrain piece does!

So my Warriors are heading back to their villages to await 9th edition to see what that brings!

Tom

cerebros
03-11-2011, 09:17 AM
having to spend an age before actully playing deciding what each building or terrain piece does!

You do realise there's no rule that says you're going to get shot if you don't roll for every type of terrain?

The most we normally do down at the club I go to is treat woods as mysterious (in fact that's pretty much been the case at both 8th edition tournaments I've been to too) - everything else is normally just a hill or a building.

gcsmith
03-11-2011, 09:33 AM
I love 8th edition. Adimitadly Im a HE player, but i have been for a long time. TBH the starter set kinda ruins 8th because it creates so many band waggon newbs, and has like hardly anything, the 40k starter set has plenty for marines and orks to expand their armies, the fantasy has loads for skaven and like 10 models in comparison for HE, i mean u only need so many reavers and sm, i mean reavers are crap. And SM are kinda eclipsed by WL and PG with the 8th magic and shooting.

And for all you magic haters... learn how magic dependant armies felt when in 6th and 7th combat and shooty heavy armies pounded magic armies like HE into dust.

Rusty Nail
03-11-2011, 11:01 AM
Yep, I know, but some people seem really excited by it and I didn't want to spoil there fun before the game even started.

NB like a load of other people round here I'm going to be giving Warmachine a try sooner rather than later.

Tom