DE - Strange Tests?

[DrBored]

I've got a few questions about some of the wargear in the Dark Eldar Codex...

Hexrifle - Says you have to take a characteristics test based on a model's wounds... so what do I have to roll in order to wound? What does my enemy have to roll in order to save?

Shattershard - Says that a model hit must make a toughness test or else be removed from play with no saves. What about models with toughness 6, 7, or 8? What save are they making here? What do they have to roll to pass the test?

Orb of Despair - This s10 weapons rolls against leadership.. so treat it as a regular weapon with a strength of 10 and substitute opponent's leadership for their toughness against this weapon? (ie, s10 against ld 10 would need a 4+ to wound, etc)

Mindphase Gauntlet - Model must take a leadership and a strength test, and if either fails the weapon's effect goes through.. Strength test? How do they make/fail this test? What about models with weapons that double their strength? (ie, Archons that have full soultraps or models wielding Power Fists)

[Necron_Lord]

Re: Hexrifle - look at p. 31 in the rulebook for sniper rifles, if the unit only has 1 W, then it just dies. If not, it must take a wounds test or suffer instant death.

Re: Shattershard - every non-vehicle model hit by the template must pass a toughness test or be removed. Models with T >= 6 still are removed if a '6' is rolled, i.e. a '6' always equals fail even if it is equal or less than the model's toughness.

Re: Orb of Despair - that's correct. In that case use the opponent's Ld instead of T for the to wound chart.

Re: Mindphase Gauntlet - strength test is a characteristic test and is not modified by wargear. For example, an Archon would have to roll a '3' or lower to pass the strength test on one D6, and have to roll a '10' or less on 2D6 to pass the Ld test. Check out the characteristic test section in the rulebook (p. 8).

[SeattleDV8]

Characteristic Tests BRB pg8

[DrLove42]

Necron lord, you're wrong on the hexrifle. if a model has only 1 wound, you still roll and kill on a 2+, as a 1 always fails, just like a 6 always succeeds for the shattershard. Also you need to check carefully, does it inflict instant death, or does it just remove it from the table? Not got my codex on me so can't remember

Apologies, i completly misinterpreted what you'd said. So yeah no wounds test for 1 wounded dudes...thems just dead. And as gcsmith below me points out its just remove from play...so eternal warrior does nothing

[gcsmith]

its remove from play, but it doesnt affect 1 wound models as they would have died from the shot. The tests is only made after an unsaved wound.

[Quaade]

Orb of Despair - This s10 weapons rolls against leadership.. so treat it as a regular weapon with a strength of 10 and substitute opponent's leadership for their toughness against this weapon? (ie, s10 against ld 10 would need a 4+ to wound, etc)


Yes, but untill errataed, it still inflicts instant death to T5 models.

[Necron_Lord]

@DrLove42

What I meant is that the characteristic tests are only taken after suffering an unsaved wound. If a 1 W model suffered an unsaved wound, there would be no reason to take the characteristics test, as it would be removed from play anyway. This would also mean after taking any FNP or other nonsense a model might have. The model is still allowed its armor save (unless it is negated by rolling a '6' on the to wound and thus becoming rending) or invulnerable save if the shot was rending and any FNP if it has any. AFTER failing all this, the model suffers a wound, then the characteristic test MAY apply (i.e. the model must still have wounds remaining).

[DrLove42]

@DrLove42

What I meant is that the characteristic tests are only taken after suffering an unsaved wound. If a 1 W model suffered an unsaved wound, there would be no reason to take the characteristics test, as it would be removed from play anyway. This would also mean after taking any FNP or other nonsense a model might have. The model is still allowed its armor save (unless it is negated by rolling a '6' on the to wound and thus becoming rending) or invulnerable save if the shot was rending and any FNP if it has any. AFTER failing all this, the model suffers a wound, then the characteristic test MAY apply (i.e. the model must still have wounds remaining).

Yeah i just misread what you said. You are indeed correct! Rending'gy goodness. Although if your hexrifle is shooting monowound dudes you might have some strange target priority...

[DrBored]

Thanks for helping out guys! Some of that was really confusing. I'll be sure to recheck the rules on characteristic tests!

Also, if your hexrifle is shooting at monowound doods, you've probably already killed all the multiwound ones :D

[grendel111]

Could also help against necrons as if they are removed from play there is no WBB.

[dannyat2460]

Yes, but untill errataed, it still inflicts instant death to T5 models.

actualy it will only cause instant death on Ld5 models as you are replacing the models T with its Ld for this attack.

Also a good note on this is if your are attacking a squad it dosnt use the highest Ld as is normal for taking tests but the adverage of the squads as per the rules of shooting

[somerandomdude]

Actually, ANY time you check for instant death caused by a high strength, you check to see if it is double the toughness according to the rules. The Orb of Despair only states that it compares a model's leadership when rolling to wound, and doesn't specify that it checks leadership for any other purpose.

Might not make sense, but it is the rule, until they errata it.

[dannyat2460]

Actually, ANY time you check for instant death caused by a high strength, you check to see if it is double the toughness according to the rules. The Orb of Despair only states that it compares a model's leadership when rolling to wound, and doesn't specify that it checks leadership for any other purpose.

Might not make sense, but it is the rule, until they errata it.

too true im just taking the calidus assasin as a prefix, both high S weapons with an AP value that affects leasership rather than T, but like you say this will have to be FAQ for clarification of this and for now talk to your apponent about it before springing it on them mid game and having an argument over it.

I just hope no one tries to do it in the tounament as its going to be a nightmare arguing it :(

[karandras]

Yes, but untill errataed, it still inflicts instant death to T5 models.

The way I read it is it is a Str 10 weapon but the targeted model substitutes it's LD for its toughness. So it would only instant kill models with a LD 5 or less.

No different than the Callidus Assassin's weapon which is in the FAQ.

[Angelofblades]

In regards to the implosion missile, if you re-read it, it actually doesn't have any affect at all to models that are Eternal Warrior. It doesn't actually cause any wounds, all it does it force a characteristics test, if failed, models suffers ID. Not a wound that causes ID, just ID. So a model with EW suffers no ill effects at all.