Targetting Raider and Ravagers

[Keldain]

Forgive me if this question has been asked before, but you see I have a rules lawyer at my LGS who indeed believes that targetting the Aethersails counts as targetting the Raider/Ravager in question (e.g. the Raider/Ravage is hidden behind terrain but it's Aethersails are exposed.

Someone on WarSeer came to the same conclusion as I did when it came the 'sails in question, and even referrenced the CRB where it speaks of Wings on a Dragon not counting as targetting the Dragon (I would assume you can't target a Daemon Prince's wings as well), so is there a difference there? Can anyone give me a pg # out of the 40k CRB that states extra bits that give character to a model don't count as the hull of the vehicle in question? As I would love to put this rules lawyer in his place (as he reminds me of a nerded out Baron Harkonnen - yes, I just said he's a massively obese nerd).

Thanks in advance,
~ Keldain

[Sir Biscuit]

The page you are looking for is page 16, under "determining line of sight".

"Sometimes, all that may be visible of a model may be a weapon, a banner, an antenna or some other ornament he is wearing or carrying (including it's wings and tail, even though they are technically part of its body.) In these cases, the model is not visible."

Same deal for vehicles, page 60 tells you to ignore visual add-ons. The hull is what matters.

[Keldain]

Thank you Sir Biscuit, you are a gentleman and a scholar, I'll make sure to call off my Incubi. =)

[JMichael]

oops beaten to it.
Specifically p60 states that the enemy must be able to see the Hull and Turret.
So your pointy ram thing thing on the front of the raiders is also not eligible for LoS.

I hate rules lawyers! I take great pleasure in correcting and beating them at our store.
And I still manage to win 'best sportsman' most of the time.

[Jiggs]

if the guy you are playing against still complains about it, then on your future raider/ravager models dont glue the sails on. that way if he says he can shoot them, just take off the sails when playing with him.:D

[Xas]

if the guy you are playing against still complains about it, then on your future raider/ravager models dont glue the sails on. that way if he says he can shoot them, just take off the sails when playing with him.:D

or magnetize them.

I find it is a very convenient way to use the sail as a marker for "immobilized" results. if the sail is still on the vehicle can move, if not it is immobilized.

I also magnetized the gunners so the only stuff I have to remember is stunned/shaken.

[Jiggs]

or magnetize them.

I find it is a very convenient way to use the sail as a marker for "immobilized" results. if the sail is still on the vehicle can move, if not it is immobilized.

I also magnetized the gunners so the only stuff I have to remember is stunned/shaken.

well yeah thats what I meant, I don't mean keep them off completely. I just meant take them off some how during games, I haven't built my raider yet but the weapons look as though they wouldn't need magnets to hold them in without gluing. Does the sail need a magnet to stay in place if you decide not to glue it, I noticed it had a small peg that could hold it in place.