Which Wych Weapons?

[somerandomdude]

I've only known the most recent Dark Eldar Wych Weapons, which had general rules regardless of the model. I had known of the previous weapons, but never played with them.

With the new codex, however, the Wyches have options for their special weapons. I'm wondering wych (get it?) weapons people are wanting to use more. I'll start with my own analysis of the weapons, including a quick rundown of what they do for anyone who doesn't know, and state my preference at the end of the post.

WARNING: A wall of text follows.

Hydra Gauntlets: These are the most offensive-oriented weapons of the bunch. On the turn you charge, you get a charge bonus of d6 rather than 1. Since they count as two weapons, that means you can get a possible 8 attacks (9 with drugs) from a 20 point model! We also have to keep in mind that almost every other drug result increases their effectiveness directly (the exceptions being the 3d6 run and the pain token). This is still a strength three model, but considering none of these options are powerweapons, weight of fire (er, swings) can help bring a few more kills to the group.

However, they have two downsides that the other two options do not suffer from: randomness (the idea of paying 10 points for absolutely nothing 1/6 of the time worries me) and the fact that it only works during the original charge. Considering you generally want to keep your Wyches in combat through your opponents turn, it will not provide any benefit during that time, where the other weapons will. Still, a strong option, especially against larger groups of enemies.

EDIT: As was pointed out, the Hydra Gauntlets provide +d6 attacks instead of the +1 for a bonus weapon, not for charging.

Razorflails: The next option gives you the benefit of Wolf Claws but without the need to wrack your brain on the choice (and punishing yourself when your dice tell you to pick the other way). Being able to reroll hits AND wounds is huge, particularly for a strength 3 model. In fact, assuming you are needing 4s to hit and wound, they are actually better than the Gauntlets when rolling anything less than a 5 for you math folks (and the difference between a Razorwych and a Hydrawych with 7 attacks is about 0.07 wounds). The other obvious benefit is that these weapons still work after the initial charge, resulting in over twice as many wounds on average. Also, the tougher the opponent, the better the benefit in comparison to the guantlets.

However, there are two downsides to these weapons as well. With the incredible amount of the poison in the codex, not to mention the darklight weapons, tough opponents (T5+) will typically have other things to take them out, and you may need your infantry to focus on light infantry, where your poison would be less desirable (and your flails less effective). This one is minor, but still can make a difference. The big problem in my opinion is the drug chart. One option increases your strength, another re-rolls failed wounds, and a third gives you +1 WS (all of which benefit the gauntlets much more). Now, obviously all of these rolls help your other Wyches significantly, but times like these you might regret your choice.

Shardnet and Impaler: The final option provides no offensive bonus at all (so why is it even an option?!) but it provides a potentially huge boost to the survivability of your Wyches. These weapons reduce the number of attacks of all enemy models in base contact with them by 1. Considering the manueverability of the Wyches (Raiders + Fleet) you can easily dictate who this model touches. Charging a squad with a powerfist sergeant? Now that fist only has 1 attack, and it has to go through your 4++. Warrior Born Wolf Lord? That -1 could intrinsicly add up to quite a nice bonus. How about just charging Terminators or Veterans? Depending on how you position yourself before the charge, you could even force multiple models into base contact with the Netwych. One other nice thing about this options is that, unlike the others, there is no bad drug that can go with it (to be fair, there aren't any bad ones for the Hydrawych, just some that are better than others).

(Note: My interpretation is that the Shardnet/Impaler also works against models with 1 base attack and receive a bonus somehow, i.e. two weapons, charging, Pedro, etc.)

Once again, there are two downsides to this option. The first, especially compared to the others, is that it does not increase the offensive capabilities of the model wielding it. While it can increase the survivability of the Wych squad (never a bad thing) it doesn't help the Wyches do what they do best, which is kill. The other downside is that it doesn't provide any benefit whatsoever against models with 1 base attack.

My verdict: In my opinion, the best option (or rather, the one I'm going to use the most) is the Shardnet and Impaler. (Surprised? I doubt it, I don't think I hid my opinion very well. :D) The downsides are not significant in my opinion. Wyches are great at killing things, no doubt about that, but I've always loved using them for tying up elite fights and utilizing that 4++ as much as possible, which suggests that they will face enemies with 2 or more attacks, and the survivability increase means that much more.

Another thing to note is that you can take three of these options in a Hekatrix squad (and still have room for an IC like a Haemy to provide a free token, or an Archon to make them more killy). Versus a unit of Terminators, that's at least three fewer attacks swinging at you (more with smart positioning). Versus a monstrous creature, your opponent has two options - pick the model up now, or pick it up in a couple turns after the Agoniser tears you down (Hive Tyrants, Trygons, Daemon Princes, and the like will be reduced to 1 base attack!).

I'd be extremely happy to hear any thoughts you folks have. I'm pretty set on my opinion, as I'm sure a lot of you are, but I feel as though there isn't enough praise for the Netwyches (and practically no praise for the Razorwyches).

So, what does everyone think?

[BuFFo]

The best thing Wyches do is not kill, but survive. This has always been the power of Wyches, the ability to take a charge by 20 power fist attacks and brush them off like so much lint.

Now, with that said, the obvious choice would be the Shardnet. This is the best choice by far, and I fully agree with you about this.

The only other option would probably be three Hydra Gauntlets on Bloodbrides. That is a scary amount of attacks to dish out.

[DrBored]

Actually, math has proved that Razorflails put more wounds on enemies than Hydra Gauntlets, no matter what drug you get. The balance leans slightly towards Hydra Gauntlets when you throw your Wyches up against weaker targets, like Guardsmen, but against MEq, the Razorflails do more.

Math is pretty slick like that.

Also, the summary of Hydra Gauntlets is incorrect. They don't replace the bonus to charge, they replace the bonus you get for having two close combat weapons. In other words, normally a model gets +1 attack for having two close combat weapons. For Hydra Gauntlets, it's that modifier that's changed to +d6, so you get it every time you attack, not just on the charge.

[Silver Drakes Legion]

I'd compare the hydra gauntlets to Space wolves MOW. The rules as they read give you D6 bonus attacks each round instead of the bonus for 2 hand weapons. So you would get it each round of combat.

[somerandomdude]

Actually, math has proved that Razorflails put more wounds on enemies than Hydra Gauntlets, no matter what drug you get. The balance leans slightly towards Hydra Gauntlets when you throw your Wyches up against weaker targets, like Guardsmen, but against MEq, the Razorflails do more.

Math is pretty slick like that.

Also, the summary of Hydra Gauntlets is incorrect. They don't replace the bonus to charge, they replace the bonus you get for having two close combat weapons. In other words, normally a model gets +1 attack for having two close combat weapons. For Hydra Gauntlets, it's that modifier that's changed to +d6, so you get it every time you attack, not just on the charge.

I've read that entry a dozen times I think, and I've always read it wrong. It may have been an old rumor, or my own stupidity (more likely).

As for the first part, assuming the reroll drug is rolled, there are certain amounts of bonus attacks that provide you with an advantage, assuming my reworked math isn't incorrect.

Your statement, though, just makes the case against the Hydra Gauntlets stronger when going against MEq, except for those poor souls who always roll 6s...

[DrBored]

I've read that entry a dozen times I think, and I've always read it wrong. It may have been an old rumor, or my own stupidity (more likely).

As for the first part, assuming the reroll drug is rolled, there are certain amounts of bonus attacks that provide you with an advantage, assuming my reworked math isn't incorrect.

Your statement, though, just makes the case against the Hydra Gauntlets stronger when going against MEq, except for those poor souls who always roll 6s...

It may seem that way, but when you average things out, Razorflails still do more damage. Getting more chances to re-do hits, especially hits you have a higher chance of failing (wounding a t4 character) seems to just do more than getting a random number of attacks. Yeah you could potentially get those 6 attacks, but you could also get 1 attack more often than you like and be nowhere closer to killing something.

[me_yourself]

personaly I´m most in favour of the shardnets, the unit have enough attacks as it is and the most killing power are going to come from agonisers anyway. And it will be really nice to charge in with a full unit of bloodbrides on a daemon prince or likewise just to see it left with just 1 attack.

But then again, these kind of opponents are probably better dealt with using dark matter or poisoned splinter weaponry.

[isotope99]

I too favour shardnets, especially where you are using your wyches as bodyguards for a character.

For Bloodbrides, razorflails are the only weapon to get better as they make use of that extra attack, but I want to keep my wyches scoring.

It's just a shame GW didn't give raiders the extra 2 passenger boost that most other recent transports have gotten, so you can only have a bodyguard of 9 and one special weapon.

[Fizyx]

It's just a shame GW didn't give raiders the extra 2 passenger boost that most other recent transports have gotten, so you can only have a bodyguard of 9 and one special weapon.

Assuming the Bodyguard is for Lelith, I don't think the extra special weapon will make much of a difference, lol.

OP: Like others have said, Shardnet/Impalers are really the only way to go. Both the Razorflails and Hydra Gauntlets might net you an extra unsaved wound each round of combat against MEQ, but really that doesn't mean much when you are killing the majority of MEQ with your Agonizer anyways. The Shardnet and impalers will drop the number of attacks coming at you substantially. (33%-50%, depending on who you are attacking, who gets the charge and how you position) which makes a 4+ invuln and potential FNP (if you can get them a pain token) even better.

Think about it this way. If you can position your two or three models with Shardnets and Impalers in base-to-base with 7 models in a squad of 10 models with two attacks each, you just reduced the number of attacks by 35%. That is roughly equivalent to an extra 5++ save for the entire squad that goes off every round with no variation. I call that freaking awesome.