Is a Venom ever better than a Raider?

[Paulo187]

I'm not sure if this is a rule, tactics, or modeling question, but here goes. I was working on a small 750 point started force for my first Dark Eldar game (Raider full of Wyches, Raider full of Kabalite Warriors, Squadron of 3 Reaver Jetbikes, and an Archon). I found that I had just enough points left over for some transportation for the Archon. My first instinct was to get him a Venom transport since it was small and saw no need to spring for a 10 capacity Raider.

Then that got me to thinking: Is a Venom ever more desirable than a Raider?

A Venom is only marginally better than a Raider in the points cost department. A Venom costs only 15 points less than a Raider with a Flickerfield.

A venom is only marginally better than a Raider in the real world money department. I thought about ordering an Eldar Vyper and making it into a Venom. When I went on the GW site I found that the Eldar Vyper costs $30 compared to the Raider's cost of $33. If you take into account all of the extra effort of converting it doesn't save you any money at all!

It seems to me that I should just spring for another Raider and have the Archon be it's sole occupant. What do you guys think?

[isotope99]

15 points is still 15 points, but the main benefit is that you can model the venom much smaller than a raider, making it easier to hide behind terrain/other models.

Generally I agree the Venom's limited transport capacity makes it a much less likely choice but if you really do only want 5 models or less in it, it's probably marginally better.

[BuFFo]

Neither is better than the other.

If you want a transport with Anti-Mech and/or need to transport 10 models, go Raider.

If you want a transport with anti-Horde and/or need only to transport 5 models, go Venom.

[Bigred]

The Venom also offers better protection for the points to small elite squads who fit in it (like for example mech-hunting Trueborn).

It all depends on what you're transporting.

It's also a very nasty little anti-personnel platform with the dual splinter cannon loadout (which both count as defensive weapons).

[somerandomdude]

Not to mention the fact that it's a much smaller model, meaning it will be easier to hide while you drive it into position.

The Venom with a Splinter Cannon upgrade is basically four scourges with a 5++ instead of a 4+/6++. Both let you move 12 inches and fire 12 poison shots. The difference is that the Venom can reach anywhere on the table almost (especially small tables) and it lets you move other units around more quickly.

Take a look at your force and see if you think you have enough anti-mech for games of that scale. If the answer is yes (and then some) then I say take a Venom.

Of course, if you are truly concerned about the time/money you'll put into it, find someone who will let you proxy the model, and test a few games out. Just make sure you take the extra Splinter Cannon upgrade.

[gcsmith]

2 army lists I want to try are the 3 10 man warrior squads in raiders and archon and incubi in venom.

Or whole army in venoms with the warriors each armed with blasters to deal damage to tanks.

One has more anti tank, one has more anti infantry. :) will probably make the raider one first though as mech seems to reign supreme.

[Bigred]

We're having success with Duke lists using Blaster-Trueborn squads deepstriking in Venoms to alphastrike the enemy's juicy rearfield stuff.

They dont survive often, but they hobble the enemy more often than not, making them a much easier target for the rest of the army. Anyway, those suckers are wealthy Trueborn - I'm sure they have regeneration contracts back home.

[BuFFo]

What is the point of Deepstriking vehicles? You can't disembark form them, nor can you fire from them. All I see is a destroyed Venom with a dead Trueborn unit next turn.

[Paulo187]

Wait, passengers can't fire out of Deep Striking vehicles? :eek: What if it's a Fast and Open Topped transport? Doesn't that make a difference? :confused:

[Cruor Vault]

What is the point of Deepstriking vehicles? You can't disembark form them, nor can you fire from them. All I see is a destroyed Venom with a dead Trueborn unit next turn.

What stops you from disembarking from a DS vehicle? They count as moving at cruising speed, that doesn't stop you from getting out.

Granted I have to agree with you on the rest of your statement, it seems like a waste of a rather valuable and expensive unit (for DE ). Thats like 170pts for a maybe shot at killing something if you stick the landing? The whole unit is going to die pretty much for sure the next turn.

Can't they get there just as fast with a turn 1 turbo and a 6" move the following turn, plus stay safely in their transport and further from enemy units?

[BuFFo]

What stops you from disembarking from a DS vehicle? They count as moving at cruising speed, that doesn't stop you from getting out.

Huh.... Interesting....

Retrofire jets disallows you from Disembarking after Deep Striking, but Duke Sliscus' Low Orbit Raid does not. I didn't notice that...

I will have to give it a try :)

[Bigred]

Thats the reason Buffo... :)

[BuFFo]

Thats the reason Buffo... :)

Hmmm....

I got a lot of new list building to do....

[Drew da Destroya]

Hmmm....

I got a lot of new list building to do....

And more battle report posting! I need something to do at work!

[BuFFo]

Whoops... My bad.