Vypers: How to use them?

[thecactusman17]

One of the best models in 40k--a sleeker, flying attack bike with an AV value--and yet possibly the hardest to use effectively. The AV10 means it can succumb to massed bolter fire from a single squad, even with a turbo-boosting cover save. Running them in squadrons makes them even more fragile.

How do you run these things, or do you? What upgrades and loadouts provide the best point return?

Brightlances seem to work pretty poorly, that one BS3 shot just isn't likely to connect and if it does, it still only glances the big armor on a 5. Scatter lasers could be decent if taken in a squadron where a solid dose of Guide could make for a lot of saves on the receiving end. But making back their points will be tough, needing at least four marines or about 12 Boyz to return their point cost. And because they aren't capable of ramming, they are generally ignored as a minor nuisance in most of my games (where I sometimes run two).

What could be done with them, Loungers?

[Nabterayl]

Brightlances seem to work pretty poorly, that one BS3 shot just isn't likely to connect and if it does, it still only glances the big armor on a 5.

Er, just to clarify, bright lances glance the big armor on a 4, thanks to the lance rule. The kill math still isn't any more impressive to me than it evidently is to you, but it could be worse ;)

[Chumbalaya]

Yep, single shot weapons aren't the best choice on the Vyper thanks to BS3 and its crazy fragility.

Keep them cheap and shooty. Scatter Laser and Shuriken Cannon would work just fine as a pure torrent unit.

[keithsilva]

i run one, with missle lancher, shuriken cannon and sprit stones it will support my bikes and waveserpant, normal people iqnore it in my army until it is to late. I love them they are great i mean even if you lose all the weapons it can go after objectives.

[avatar8481]

What could be done with them, Loungers?

I use them to take up space in my case so that the good eldar units don't chip their paint on the way to the store.

[thecactusman17]

Avatar8481>> I won't lie, this made me chuckle.

Chumbalaya>> so basically, there's no cost-effective version? An ML and a heavy Bolter is decent even at BS3, but now it costs... 65 points? 70? (don't have my codex in front of me). So basically, just more shots and just as unlikely to actually kill enough in a round to make back its points...

[vman]

The only uses for vypers are.

1) look good on your shelf
2) run then with shuriken cannons and keep them as cheap as possible
3) they are a good distraction

thats about all

Yup... shame such a nice model is so crap to play with, but for the point cost you cant expect much more

[Chumbalaya]

With a scatter laser and shuriken cannon they end up fairly cheap and dish out a lot of firepower. High S, high RoF weapons work best with it because of their low cost, BS3, and its speed. It can get around side armor shots or just force those marines/MCs to take more saves.

If you have the points, go nuts, but don't go out of your way for it.

[Dosadi]

I rarely use Vypers in an games smaller than 2K. When I do, I like the EML & ShurCannon combo. It’s the most flexible option as it gives you the option for anti-personnel orAnti-tank.
Spirit Stones are a must, because I run them independent (never a squadron).
I like them as flankers, often backing up a large squadron of jetbikes. I keep them at a distance to avoid the “mass bolter fire” taking them down.
All in all, I don’t think they are the best FA choice the Eldar have (That would be Warp Spiders;)) and they are over shadowed by some of the other toys, but they look cool and that’s the most important thing.


Dosadi

[Katie Drake]

Only way to use Vypers imo is with an Eldar Missile Launcher. Keep them waaaaay back and take pot shots at stuff. Use the plasma missile most often since the Vyper's poor BS doesn't lend itself to single shot weapons that well so you'll likely miss a lot of your krak missile attempts. The great range of the missile launcher makes your enemy have to allocate their own long ranged weaponry toward killing the Vyper if they want to bring it down, which is great for you. After all, in many cases the only weapons with enough range to reach a Vyper are ones that would be better off firing at Falcons and the like - if they're wasting their weapon's potential on a cheap Vyper, then more power to them!

[TheKingElessar]

Yes and no...I agree that Dakka-Vypers are the best kind, although EML is second.

If they weren't so horribly expensive they'd be nice - frankly they should cost like an Ork Trukk, with a freaking gun attached.

[eldaraddict]

I have had mixed results, mostly poor with the current rules for Vypers. Most people know that they are a poor choice, and will not waste their time on destroying them. I use them for a distraction unit, and for some backfield support. Keep them out of range, and keep the fire up. A lot of battles, people don't worry about them, to their dismay.
Patience, next codex I bet they rock!

[TheKingElessar]

Agreed, they're due for a price drop - since they've cost virtually exactly the same points since 2nd Edition!!!

[Docrailgun]

The Mighty Fritz has thought long and hard about jetbike and Vyper tactics. You should check out his blog.

[TheKingElessar]

I am a regular visitor. He also says they aren't really ideal.