Black Library: Where to start?

[Kozemp]

Okay so between 40K and Fantasy there are like 900,000 novels. It is enough to get lost in.

What's a good place to start reading them? Say, pick one starting point for 40K and one for WFB. I am interested to hear people's thoughts.

[Aldramelech]

Ive only started reading them this year. I'm an avid reader (at least 1 book a week) but in my 20 odd years of gaming Ive never bothered with anything GW related. I always thought (wrongly) that they would be badly written and puerile, not proper books at all. But at the local car boot sale I came across The Ultra Marines Omnibus and the Blood Angels Omnibus for £1 each! What the hell I thought, if nothing else I could sell them on Ebay for a nice profit.

WOW........ I started with the Ultra Marines and could not put it down. I wouldn't dream of selling them now and prowl Ebay for bargains every day. I'm currently reading the Dawn of War omnibus.

For WFB I would strongly recommend The Witch Hunter Omnibus, a great intro to the old world.

[Kozemp]

Rock and roll, keep the suggestions coming. I smell a big Amazon order...

[Drew da Destroya]

If you're into the fluff of either series, I heavily suggest the Horus Heresy series (40k), and I've heard good things about the Time of Legends (fantasy).

Horus Heresy is overall pretty well written, and sheds a lot of light on why the 40k universe is as grimdark as it is now.

I don't know much about Time of Legends since I'm not really that into Fantasy, but it's supposed to be the origin story of the Fantasy world.

[Kozemp]

Sweet, I'll look at those as well.

Where in South Jersey? I'm in NE Philly.

[lauran]

Just like Aldramelech I tought they would be badly written, until I got First and Only the first book in the Gaunt's ghosts series. I finished the book in 2-3 days and have the entire series now.

I also bought the ultramarine omnibus but I think it was rather dissapointing. I have it for three years now and still not finished reading. This was mainly due the fact that it wasn't what I expected it to be(frontline space marine combat).

The horus heresy novel are also verry good.

I am not into WFB but I think times of legend is interesting especially the story of sigmar.

[Gotthammer]

Titanicus is very good. The Commisar Cain series is very funny and a lighter take on the genre - more a pulp action style than total grimdark. The Grey Knights series is ok, but a few things kept puttin gme off bits (describing normal people only coming up to the waists of guys in terminator armour? Good thing the Imperium builds everything with catherdral ceilings [I think the author meant twice the size (as in bulk), rather than twice the height]).

Ian Watsons Space Marine and Inquisition War series are... interesting... especially for his bizzare fetish for describing eyes in terms of eggs. Not terribly great characters either, and the current series has some recent edits to remove Squats and other 'outdated' fluff.

The Blood Bowl Omnibus had me in stitches, and is a great novel with really well written characters.

[ThePov]

Personally, I've only read parts of both the Horus Heresy and Gaunt's Ghosts series, but what I've read from both has been stellar. Horus Heresy is an origin story, but very well done, and since each book generally focuses on a different Legion (or Imperial institution, in the case of Mechanicum), they each have unique view-points on the same events, so it pays to read as many as you can.

Gaunt's Ghosts is literally one of my favorite sci-fi series of all time. I'm not saying it's Dune or anything, but it injects a lot of humanity into a very dark, inhumane universe, and when you compare the earlier books to the later books, you really get a sense of how much the Tanith First and Only has lost over the years of constant war. Occasionally some of the plot arcs get slightly reperitive, but part of that is that this is a military unit with a specific mission-set, and they often get called upon to fulfill that mission, so it's forgivable.

[DevilUknow]

Read the Inquisitor Wars by Ian Watson and then set the rest on fire (well, maybe they're not that bad, but better safe than sorry).

Ian Watson has his haters, but I've never been bored reading his books, while Abnett (the golden boy of BL) just writes combat porn and makes my eyes roll at least once every 2-3 pages.

[wittdooley]

To be honest, I think the best place to start is the Horus Heresy for two reasons:

1. It's a really epic story that tells the history of all the fun stuff you know about the 40k universe
2. Books are written by different authors, and as a result you get a good opportunity to see who you like more than others. That'll lead you to other books.

Beyond that, I haven't read anything by Dan Abnett that I haven't been a fan of.

[evil_bryan]

Count me in as another Abnett fanboy.

I would echo the suggestions of the Horus Heresy and Gaunt's Ghosts books. I would also add the Eisenhorn and Ravenor books as well.

[Jearden]

Here is another Abnett fanboy! Anything by Abnett is good to me.

Dear lord I was beginning to think no one would mention Eisenhorn! I have really enjoyed Ravenor, but for my money, Eisenhorn is great!

Ive heard that the next triology is going to be Ravenor being sent by the Inquisition to chase down the radical, rebel Eisenhorn. Oh man will that be great! I do believe I will be buying those in hardback.

When I first dove in I read the Guants Ghost's 1st Omnibus, and I wasnt disappointed.

[lauran]

I havn't read eisenhorn and ravenor, so I don't know much about them.
Eisenhorn was a loyal inquisitor and turned traitor?
If the next book is about ravenor hunting eisenhorn down, it would be a great story.

[Schnitzel]

I just got my copies of the Eisenhorn and Ravenor Omnibus' the other day. Needless to say, I'm stoked.

"Hello, little thing. I am Cherubael"
I absolutely love that line. Haha. It just reeks of foreboding darkness to me. I dunno why.

[Kozemp]

Okay, so I'm going to start with the Gaunt's Ghosts omnibus and Horus Rising for 40K, and the Witch Hunter omnibus and Heldenhammer for Fantasy. Unless those are really terrible choices.

I'll try and find my way around after that - anything that is totally awful that I should avoid?

[RealGenius]

Despite being an avid reader and big 40k fan, my first BL book was Brothers of the Snake, that I got in my goodie bag at BoLSCon. It is a great read, and while I don't have any other BL titles to compare it against, I'd recommend it as a starter since it is a stand-alone, so you don't have to get stuck in a big trilogy or larger and it is by Abnett, one of the better BL writers.

Oh, wait, I take that back, I did read Eldar Prophecy by CS Goto about a year ago. But I'm trying to block it out; it was terrible.

[Aldramelech]

Okay, so I'm going to start with the Gaunt's Ghosts omnibus and Horus Rising for 40K, and the Witch Hunter omnibus and Heldenhammer for Fantasy. Unless those are really terrible choices.

I'll try and find my way around after that - anything that is totally awful that I should avoid?

To be honest, Ive yet to read a bad one. Those choices sound good to me. Enjoy!:D

[Nabterayl]

Can I ask a related question? What do people actually like about the BL novels? I too am a big fan of the fluff, but I've always been worried that the novels would adhere too closely to fluff, and in so doing not take the universe seriously enough.

What do I mean by that? Bolters are a good example. If you go with the fluff that states that bolters are .75 caliber rocket-propelled shells, then they aren't the size of Coke cans, and they would have less kick, and exert less pressure on the barrel, than the same projectile without rocket propulsion. That's just a fact of ballistics (well, and in the case of the Coke cans, a fact of definitions - Coke cans are 1.50 caliber, if you want to phrase it that way). If you go with the fluff that states or implies that bolters are larger than .75 caliber, then you run into [even more] serious ammunition capacity implications.

Same thing goes for chain weapons (the technique of cutting with a chainsaw is materially different than the technique of cutting with an edged weapon), and some of the more propagandistic statements. It's always bothered me when people describe space marines as heroic, for example. To be certain, they're enormously competent fighting men, and from a certain point of view selfless. From another point of view, they're self-centered conceited gits :P The behavior of the Dark Angels at Vraks, the Blood Angels at Tempestora, and the Red Scorpions at Beta Anphelion IV seems typical to me of space marines. One of the things I've appreciated about the Dawn of War games and Imperial Armour is that they seem to understand that there's plenty to hate about space marines, as well as plenty to admire.

So I guess my question is ... how seriously do Black Library authors take the implications of the fluff they're working from, in terms of character as well as the physical aspects of the setting?

[ThePov]

Well, they do Tend to take a lot of liberties with the fluff, I've noticed. I mean, nothing that couldn't be explained by the vastness of the 40K galaxy, but not every weapon I've seen used adheres strictly to the fluff specs. I haven't read any novels focussing on Space Marines outside of the Heresy yet, but so far in the Heresy, even loyal Marines are not always upstanding individuals. Slightly more honorable than their traitor brethern, but they're still motivated as much by vengance and ambition as the traitors.

[wittdooley]

Well, this is an update, but Amazon just told me they shipped my copy of Nick Kyme's Salamander. I'm stoked. I'll give you guys a review about 2 days after I get it. Yay!

[Heroka Vendile]

Okay so between 40K and Fantasy there are like 900,000 novels. It is enough to get lost in.

What's a good place to start reading them? Say, pick one starting point for 40K and one for WFB. I am interested to hear people's thoughts.

IMHO the best starting points for Black Library are -

40K:
Storm of Iron by Graham McNeil
Daemonworld by Ben Counter
The Founding Trilogy by Dan Abnett (Gaunts Ghosts series, books 1-3)

Fantasy:
Gotrek & Felix, Volume 1
Riders of the Dead by Dan Abnett

on a fantasy note, I hear The Ambassador series was very good as well.



Despite being an avid reader and big 40k fan, my first BL book was Brothers of the Snake, that I got in my goodie bag at BoLSCon. It is a great read, and while I don't have any other BL titles to compare it against, I'd recommend it as a starter since it is a stand-alone, so you don't have to get stuck in a big trilogy or larger and it is by Abnett, one of the better BL writers.

I have to say I was rather disappointed with Brothers of the Snake. Granted, it was good in places and it was nice to see Dark Eldar getting a return to the pages of Black Library as a villain (a first since Graham McNeils' Nightbringer I believe), even if they were a bit flimsy depth-wise. But am I the only person who found chapter 2 to simply be the most terrible bit of Abnett they have ever come across?

[Psychosplodge]

The last chancers books are worth a read, again Gaunt's ghosts, Eisornhorn, and Ravenor are good books. But the most entertaining 40k series has to be the Ciaphas Cain books...
I'd also recommend reading any necromunda book with Kal jericho in it.

And be warned the Inquisition war has a squat in it!(If I remember rightly) Whatever is the world coming to?

[Gotthammer]

And be warned the Inquisition war has a squat in it!(If I remember rightly) Whatever is the world coming to?

They edited him to not be a squat now I believe.

I'd be more worried about the Imperial Fist guy running around the webway getting magic powers from Rogal Dorn each time he stabs himself in the eye (including graphic description of digging out the optic nerve!). And that the ending makes absolutely no sense and the main character turns into a total dick.

The books do contain some really good stuff, but they also contain the assassin dreadnought covered in tiny knives...

[Psychosplodge]

They edited him to not be a squat now I believe.

I'd be more worried about the Imperial Fist guy running around the webway getting magic powers from Rogal Dorn each time he stabs himself in the eye (including graphic description of digging out the optic nerve!). And that the ending makes absolutely no sense and the main character turns into a total dick.

The books do contain some really good stuff, but they also contain the assassin dreadnought covered in tiny knives...
Really?
I must have an older version then lol

[DevilUknow]

I can confirm that the latest printing of the Inquisitor War Omnibus does have a Squat.

And the assassin dreadnaught covered in knives is AWSOME.

As is the accidental exterminatus, the Daemon world where the buildings hump each other and kill their inhabitants, chilling out with the EMPEROR HIMSELF, and the Space Marine demanding larceny because he's bored and wants to scrimshaw space marine bones.

That poo poo is REAL!

[Gotthammer]

It is awesome (awesome like using a dead navigator's magi eye as a map through the webway) - but probably not the best place to start.

Like I said, Watson's writing does lack in areas like characterisation and character consistency and development, but it is superbly atmospheric and contains lots of very cool fluff.

[grimm]

Really?
I must have an older version then lol

No, they've uninquisitioned him back to squat.

[DevilUknow]

whoa whoa whoa

what do you mean "uninquisitored"?

was Grimm edited out in some versions?

[Psychosplodge]

I may have to re read it,

I can't remember the knife dreadnaught lol

[Denzark]

Okay so between 40K and Fantasy there are like 900,000 novels. It is enough to get lost in.

What's a good place to start reading them? Say, pick one starting point for 40K and one for WFB. I am interested to hear people's thoughts.

I often start to read them on the bog...

[entendre_entendre]

I would have to say Storm of Iron by Graham McNeil that is an entertaining read, give lots of info on the Iron Warriors too (if you're into that...)
the Ciaphas Cain series is great for a laugh, and the much lighter look on the 40k universe is refreshing (you don't even have to start at the begining of the series!)
Gaunt's Ghosts FTW (start from the begining)
i'm not into fantasy so no help there, sorry :(

[Shadowmancer]

Horus Heresy for the win, except for Battle for the abyss which was terrible. I enjoyed Brotherhood of the Snake.Titanicus is a brilliant tie-in to the Horus Heresy series.

[ligolski]

Guant's Ghost series without a doubt is one of the best if not the best.

[Lexington]

The "Eisenhorn" trilogy, while not perfect by any means, is a damn good read. Intriguing characters, exciting plot, good dialogue - it's really a great experience.

Otherwise, I can't really recommend anything. The Black Library doesn't really publish anything good these days, and probably will continue in that fashion for the foreseeable future.

[Sitnam]

First point when reading BL: Don't expect masterpieces of literature. i love most of the BL books I read, their great action and adventure stories. But they aren't going to be taught in a high school English class. That out the way, I recommend picking up an omnibus of some sort. Normally about 3 novels in one, its cheaper, takes up less room then getting all the stories separate. I have personally read the Eisenhorn, Ciaphus Cain, and Soul Drinkers omnibus. All three highly recommended. I also read the first two Blood Angels novels, and they were decent, not great. If you can get the BA omnibus/novels cheap like I did, grab em. If not, don't bother.

Out of the single novels I read, I reccomend:

Lord of the Night (All time favorite 40k novel)
Legion (My only Horus Heresy novel so far)
Traitor General (Only Guants Ghost novel so far)
15 Hours (Okay writing, but point of view was interesting)

I do not recommend either Desert Raiders.

[Vuron]

I've read 99% of the Black Library 40k books. (kinda insane). The ones I haven't read are on my night stand.Most people think 40k fiction is only for people who play 40k. I have got people at work hooked (like they have read as many as I have) on these books and they have NEVER held a miniature in their life. There is something visceral (and juvenille in a good way) about these books. I love them.

If I was to start from scratch the ones that I would suggest are:

Storm of Iron
The first Gaunt's Ghosts Omnibus - best IG stories
Space Wolf Omnibus - best marines stories
Ciaphas Cain Hero of the Imperium Omnibus - if you can take some very very dry humor with your 40k
Eisenhorn Omnibus

Black Library does a good job of recycling their books into Omnibus. Makes it easy to catch up.

I would AVOID

Inquisition War
Anything with the words "C.S. Goto" on the cover

[Sitnam]

Space Wolf Omnibus - best marines stories
Hmm. Would you reccomend them above Soul Drinkers? I love the SD novels, and if SW are better then I might have to pick it up. Been a hard time choosing between Space Wolf and Ultramarine omnibus'....and ofcourse now Ravenor Omnibus is out so I may pick that one instead. Which would uou suggest first?

[rsheridan5]

The book that started this entire hobby for me was "Relentless" by Richard Williams.
Amazingly he only wrote the one book for 40k that I am aware of (I think he mostly writes fantasy). Also it is more of an Imperial Navy book than anything else. There wasn't a Space Marine in it...
However, following the casting down and eventual rise of the Captain Becket of the Relentless does a great job of introducing someone to the nature of the 40k galaxy. Dark and forbidding, while simultaneously full of heroism and human wherewithall. It really shows that betrayal and death are common, and only the strong survive within the Imperium.
This was a fantastic read.

[Vuron]

Hmm. Would you reccomend them above Soul Drinkers? I love the SD novels, and if SW are better then I might have to pick it up. Been a hard time choosing between Space Wolf and Ultramarine omnibus'....and ofcourse now Ravenor Omnibus is out so I may pick that one instead. Which would uou suggest first?

I am a fan of SD and personally I think Graham McNeill is the BL best 40k writer (Abnett is great but I prefer McNeill because many of Abnett's novels have what feel to be rushed endings -- like he was up against a page count and rushed the end). However King's first Space Wolf novel is very unique and imho very good - it reads like fantasy and then like sci fi - very unique. Really you cant go wrong with any of them.

[Kirkanos]

Personally I think that for starters

40K : Dan Abnett and the Gaunt's Ghosts books
and
WFB: William King and the Gotrek & Felix books (These go down hill when Nathan Long takes over writing duties) but most of the books can be had dirt cheap as collections now.

Both writers are excellent.

[Sitnam]

I am a fan of SD and personally I think Graham McNeill is the BL best 40k writer (Abnett is great but I prefer McNeill because many of Abnett's novels have what feel to be rushed endings -- like he was up against a page count and rushed the end). However King's first Space Wolf novel is very unique and imho very good - it reads like fantasy and then like sci fi - very unique. Really you cant go wrong with any of them.

Cool, thanks for the input. That does make sense for the Space Wolves. Their rules and models have a very runic, magical nature. I have never read McNeill really, but I do love Abnett so I might have to check McNeill out. I have to say however my favorite 40k author would be Sandy Mitchell. The Cain books are just so different and unique for BL books. Counter, Abnett, etc all do a great job of portraying the dark and gritty 40k universe. But nobody has added that comic element so well. The Cain books stand out because it is a perfect blend of the grim future and dry humor. But enough for that rant lol.