Chimera and Spotlights and smoke

[Renegade]

How are people modelling searchlights and smoke on Chimera transports, that should now be on them to be "legal" or is this one thing that is fairly ignored?

[maddoc]

I did mine, when i was finished with the basic construction ( it is an renegade guard army so lots of chaos stuff) i reread the codex and remembered the default gear. I mixed Guard,SM.CSM parts and gave each vehicle a set of 1 ligh and two launcher.

But i think it is not really necessary because is default gear as it is said in the rulebook(i think) for infantry.

[Flammenwerfer13]

Its like "frag & Krak" grenades, pistols, extra armour on most models as long as you know they're on there even if they're not modeled on the model then there is no issue.

[Melissia]

Are you going to ask Marine players to put their pistols, frags, and kraks on every single model?

[DarkLink]

I seriously doubt that anyone who isn't a crazy person will ever care about WYSIWYG that much.

[Mal]

WYSIWYG referes primarilary to special equipment and upgrade, the searchlight is standard equipment, so its not a requirement to have it displayed as ALL chimeras have them.

[Renegade]

Are you going to ask Marine players to put their pistols, frags, and kraks on every single model?

But not every guard vehicle comes with both smoke and searchlights, or just one or the other, otherwise it wouldn't be an issue.

Anyway, not all Marines come with Frag and kraks, there are two codices where they still have to buy them.

[Old_Paladin]

But not every guard vehicle comes with both smoke and searchlights, or just one or the other, otherwise it wouldn't be an issue.

But that's not what you asked.
You asked if Chimera's should be forced to be modeled with said equipment.
As every Chimera will always have that equipment, it's not really as important for them to have it modeled.

[Renegade]

As every Chimera will always have that equipment, it's not really as important for them to have it modeled. Thats all wel and fine, till you meet someone who does not have the codex, and is the same reasoning that people gave to use a normal sized marine that had "daemonic stature" in the 3.5 chaos codex.

Personally, I think that the search light in the Chimera kit is ugly and think the Sentinal conversion I have done is passable. Given that light and smoke is going to be something that anyone that did not know they came with would, imo, not prusume they did, effort should be made to represent them, saves on that 'WTF' moment.

[Vaktathi]

Given that the book has been out for a year and a half, and that for the last *three and a half* years Smoke/Searchlights have been standard equipment for Imperial vehicles as the books get updated, and that a quick glance at a codex should resolve any problems, I'd say it's a non-issue. If someone is going to make a scene out of something like that, they probably aren't worth playing.

The only time it has come up for me in the 18 months since the IG book came out was at a tournament about 6 months after the book was released, and the mission was against a Space Wolves player (whose vehicles all also included Searchlight/Smoke) and the game was night-fight for the entire duration, and he apparently just didn't make the connection. I showed him the codex entry, he went "oh, wel uhl...ok" and was far more surprised at my ability to scout Vendettas up and hit his vehicles with double-pen meltashots from embarked SWS's on turn 1.

[Old_Paladin]

Thats all wel and fine, till you meet someone who does not have the codex, and is the same reasoning that people gave to use a normal sized marine that had "daemonic stature" in the 3.5 chaos codex.

That comparison makes no sense.
I'm talking about a unit entry that ALWAYS includes a set of very basic equipment.
Your example is about a significant upgrade to a important, individual HQ unit [in which the discription of said upgrade indicated that a larger model should be used].

The equivalent comparison (as already stated by Flammen and Mel) is like grenades or stock-pistols; and the general understanding is that they don't need to be included on the model.

[Renegade]

Given that the book has been out for a year and a half, and that for the last *three and a half* years Smoke/Searchlights have been standard equipment for Imperial vehicles as the books get updated, and that a quick glance at a codex should resolve any problems, I'd say it's a non-issue. If someone is going to make a scene out of something like that, they probably aren't worth playing. I dont think that is really a fair assessment. I never took lights in 4ed on anything, and only take smoke in this edition (for my BT), and you also have those new to the game or returning. Not everyone has every codex or have much experience against every army (I play agianst far more nids and ork armies than anything else for example) and only found out about chimeras having them as standard while putting an army together.

This kind of thing has many counter arguements that could be argued as leaving them off as just being lazy.


That comparison makes no sense.
I'm talking about a unit entry that ALWAYS includes a set of very basic equipment.
Your example is about a significant upgrade to a important, individual HQ unit It happened as default once you took 50 points of daemonic gear as well, which could easily be done.

[Vaktathi]

I dont think that is really a fair assessment. I never took lights in 4ed on anything, and only take smoke in this edition (for my BT), and you also have those new to the game or returning. Not everyone has every codex or have much experience against every army (I play agianst far more nids and ork armies than anything else for example) and only found out about chimeras having them as standard while putting an army together.

This kind of thing has many counter arguements that could be argued as leaving them off as just being lazy.

Or that one's chimeras have been built and painted for many years before the current IG codex came out, or that the searchlights look goofy as all hell.

Given that every SM chapter comes with Smoke launchers as base now except BT's, how many do you see them modeled on? How many LRBT's do you see modeled with smoke? How many Land Raiders do yous see with Searchlights?


It's standard equipment, if someone is going to be that upset about it being modeled, are they putting grenades on every model that has them? Both Frag and Krak where applicable? Are they modelling CCW's (remember, even Guardsmen have CCW's in their wargear profile)? Are they putting pistols on each Marine?

If it's standard, in codex equipment, don't worry about it being modeled perfectly. Upgrade equipment is a different matter, and even then it varies e.g. very few people are going to demand one models krak grenades on every model that buys them, most people wouldn't notice even if you did.

[Old_Paladin]

It happened as default once you took 50 points of daemonic gear as well, which could easily be done.

No, now you're making a mistake thinking that all Daemonic Marines are LARGE Daemonic Marines.

The Lord became a daemon if he took too many gifts; or once he took Stature at all.
But taking too many gifts didn't make him automatically huge (and he certainly didn't get Stature for free, which is what your post sounds like).

If the lord took claws, venom, wings and deamonic armour; he became a Daemon lord, but could still be marine sized.
If he took Stature, be got bonus toughness and wounds, but could always be targetted and could never enter a vehicle, and the model should be larger.

[Renegade]

The Lord became a daemon if he took too many gifts; or once he took Stature at all.
But taking too many gifts didn't make him automatically hugeYes he did, he became a daemon prince, and it stated that he should (but few did, thus the number of complaints about it) be modeled appropriately. I have doubled checked the wording in the codex, its right next to me.


Or that one's chimeras have been built and painted for many years before the current IG codex came out, or that the searchlights look goofy as all hell.Don't get me wrong, I can see the arguement on both sides and am playing a bit of devils advocate. Still, if I hadn't of known it, and I only know about it cause I started collecting IG recently, I would call someone out on it and probably would have grumbled about it. I agree about the search lights they come with, seeing the DE models, I know they can do far, far betterr than those things.

I tend to have to remind people that I only have one type of grenade as I am not prepared to pay 19points per model for a basic Initiate /marine.

[Mal]

Thats all wel and fine, till you meet someone who does not have the codex

Actually your opponent doesn't need to have the codex, if your fielding IG then you should have your codex with you, and you should allow your opponent to see it if they wish to.


effort should be made to represent them, saves on that 'WTF' moment.

This is entirely optional, there is no rule in the game that forces people to model standard equipment, only non standard equipment.