Astorath vs fateweaver help

[Brotherjames]

If Fateweaver and Astorath are in cc and fateweaver fails his first invul save but makes the re-roll can the executioners axe force him to re-roll that last re-roll as the rules state you can never do that is this an exception?

[gcsmith]

Nope no reroll of the reroll, Only rules which say may reroll a reroll can. And Ive seen none recently so no reroll of his rerolled failed saves that become passed, sorry

[isotope99]

The rules do say you can't normally reroll a save more than once, but they're clearly intended to stop rerolls being stacked so you get multiple chances.

To be fair the rule should be amended to "you can't reroll a failed save more than once or be forced to reroll a successful save more than once".

I guess this balances out though because it would work against fateweaver the other way (i.e. if he passed his roll then was forced to reroll and failed, he wouldn't then get another chance.

[Calypso2ts]

This is exactly like Null Zone or Bone Swords paired with Fortune. You just pick up all the dice and roll them again and that is the correct result. Be sure to communicate with your opponent how you will be handling saves because it is statistically equivalent to simply roll all the dice once.

[DrLove42]

I don't know Astorarths rules...is its simply that all succesful saves need to be re-rolled? And Fateweaver re-rolls all fails?

In that case you just roll each save once. Same as Runes of Witnessing and the Nid power...one says roll of 3D6pick 2 lowest, one says roll 3D6 pick 2 highest....they just cancel

[Tynskel]

This is exactly like Null Zone or Bone Swords paired with Fortune. You just pick up all the dice and roll them again and that is the correct result. Be sure to communicate with your opponent how you will be handling saves because it is statistically equivalent to simply roll all the dice once.

It maybe statistically equivalent, however, the instantaneous moment is not. Not to mention weighted dice that people may have (not intentionally, but they just bought the 'pretty ones'), will also effect the outcome.

So, you should always force your opponent to re-roll when possible. Or re-roll dice for yourself, whenever possible.

p.2: cannot re-roll dice more than once.

[Tynskel]

I don't know Astorarths rules...is its simply that all succesful saves need to be re-rolled? And Fateweaver re-rolls all fails?

In that case you just roll each save once. Same as Runes of Witnessing and the Nid power...one says roll of 3D6pick 2 lowest, one says roll 3D6 pick 2 highest....they just cancel

Nid power does not say roll 3d6 pick lowest. It just says roll 3d6 for the test.

[isotope99]

It maybe statistically equivalent, however, the instantaneous moment is not. Not to mention weighted dice that people may have (not intentionally, but they just bought the 'pretty ones'), will also effect the outcome.


We believe you Tynskel, of course it was just an accident that you bought those mostly sixes dice:p.

[Calypso2ts]

I generally dislike this argument against rerolling, if your opponent is playing with loaded dice or doing some sort of magical rolling technique to generate 6's...well, call him on that. On average the result is the same, although it is a bit dramatic to look at the first result and then see what happens next....

Edit: Yes I understand that technically you are only approximating a random process with dice and it might turn out the second roll is better because a small earthquake overturns some or the 6's got all sweaty but...come on!

[Bean]

Tynskel is right. You do actually roll the dice, then pick them all up and roll them again. The second result stands. Since it's pretty unlikely that the two rolls will be the same, rolling them again does, obviously, make a difference, but it's not a predictable one. Practically, it's very similar to just rolling it once, but in the end, it's better to re-roll them all. That way you don't end up with players feeling jipped when you stick with a particularly good/bad first roll that could have gone the other way had it been re-rolled.

[Night System]

But wouldnt you feel jipped if you past and then failed? (or vice versa?)

They way i would play it, as i do with the Tyranid rules and Runes of witnessing, is that they simply cancel each other out.
Roll One dice for an armour save like everybody else, all good, all sorted.

(and roll a normal psychic test for the others ;))

[Xas]

rules wise / RAW you do the following:

say astorat scores 3 wounds.

fateweaver rolls 3d6 and REGARDLESS of what they show immediatelly rerolls all 3d6 (the failed are rerolled because of fateweavers ability the sucessfull because of astoraths ability). the 2nd result is the final one and NO dice are rerolled (because the rules dissallow for rerolling twice).

as dice dont have any kind of memory (and thus are in theory extremely good RNG compared to electronical device) this is 100% the same as just saying the abilities cancel each other out.

the only thing you have to do is clear with your oponent before the dice are rolled if you use the (imo silly and timewasting) way of rerolling all dice or the method of canceling each other out (not advised if you assume your oponent is a bad sports like on a tournament finals).