Necrons: Ignore Phase Out

[Mycroft Holmes]

Over and over we see comments, posts, replies and whole articles devoted to how bad the Necron army is. This is mostly based on the Phase Out rule enforcing an easy to reach failure condition for the army. Often this results in battles where anything that doesn't have the "Necron" special rule is completely ignored.

Why not try a few games against your friends with out the Phase Out in effect?

I know the first reaction is going to be "But that's like giving the entire army Feel No Pain! " We'll we're all playing with/against Blood Angels who can cover a large number of units with FNP and they still lose plenty of games. Also, the Necrons have plenty more negatives to worry about before believing they are "OMG BROKE!"

I'd love to see some lists built up with limitation removed and see if this could allow Necron players to build a competitive army. Obviously, this isn't going to be a tournament legal list and you would need some friends to agree to this change ahead of time, but I'd love to see some people give this a shot and let some devoted Necron fans see what they can do with a little easing of their restrictions.

[DarkLink]

If I ever actually played Necrons, I'd be cool with that.

[razcalking]

I'd suggest that they reduce the number of points they get, anywhere from a 10% - 25% reduction. After that, I'd be fine with it.

[Unlighted]

10-25% reduction in points just to ignore Phase Out? Really? In a 1500 point game that means 150 points are gone at 10% and 375 points at 25%! Considering that a bare bones Lord and 2 minimum sqauds of Warriors costs 460 points you're not exactly promoting varied Necron list building.

A Necron army can do well at range, but as soon as some reasonably competent assault unit gets in close it's all over. Sweeping advance is a harsh taskmaster. Phase Out will increase the overall staying power of a Necron army, but they'll still have their major weaknesses. Opponents will just have to deal with the usual clean up they experience with every other army they face after gutting the troops section. They'll have to use some strategy rather than just bumrush units with the Necron special rule to win objective games.

No Phase Out would definitely make games more interesting.

[BuFFo]

We tried it at our store last year. The three Necrons players still stopped playing. two switched armies and the third left the hobby.

The real issue is close combat and sweeping advance. Necrons are just no good at it. Period.

[Mal]

We tried it at our store last year. The three Necrons players still stopped playing. two switched armies and the third left the hobby.

The real issue is close combat and sweeping advance. Necrons are just no good at it. Period.

+1

I kill necrons by beating them in combat with units of a higher Ld, this means i've got a good chance of getting a sweeping advance... even without the phase out this eliminates the WBB and gives me lots of easy kills against expensive units...

Now considering my whole army is high I CC units... well you get the picture.

Phase out isn't the problem, the codex is the problem. Necrons just have too many inherent weaknesses for 5th edition competative play... its a shame but there it is.

[Melissia]

Only if I can also ignore Living Metal, because without phaseout my Sisters would never beat a Neron army.

[Cyberscape7]

It is true, that the crons are seriously flawed at the moment, I in fact haven't really touched my army for aeons. But there are a couple of positives.
1. Crons still have the monolith. Its just fun to use.
2. They should be getting an update at around april-june 2011 so we really dont have long to wait before they are fixed.

[Lerra]

We regularly ignore phase out during team games (the phase out rule doesn't make sense in team play - by RAW, the whole team loses with the Necron player phases out. Not fun).

We have a tournament Necron player locally, and he does just fine against other tournament lists. He's walked away with a few prizes, and he usually places in the top half. I'm sure he'd do better with an updated codex, but the current situation isn't so bad. A good tactician can do a lot with the current Necron codex.

Personally though, I hate Phase Out. It's one of the least-fun rules in 40k. The best games are bloody and close, and I feel robbed when the Necrons phase out during the most exciting part of the game. It feels like an illegitimate win - It's like those games when you are on turn 5 and your opponent has to forfeit because he needs to leave.

[Necron_Lord]

Instead of ignoring phase out, I would 'haggle' to get the Necron rule to include stubborn. Sweeping advance is what kills I 2 necrons (i.e. warriors, immortals, destroyerEQs) because they only have a 1 in 6 chance of not getting destroyed against an I 4 opponent (i.e. most MEQ armies). Mass low AP pie plate builds (I'm looking at you IG) are the other type which spells massive fail for 'crons.

If you know how to play them, 'crons aren't total pushovers. The only builds (which are almost de rigueur for some armies) which 'crons have real difficulties dealing with are the massed pie plate or low AP spam builds and the mobile assault spam builds. If you aren't going up against them, you can still have fun with your 'crons.

[Athanaris]

Instead of the 'Stubborn' USR, how about ATSKNF. I recall some explanation in the Necron codex as to why they take moral checks; something about the fact that even though they are 'machines' they still recognize that they may have to fall back and re-think (so-to-speak) their position. Just a thought. Has anyone tried this?

[Necron_Lord]

ATSKNF is only for the MEQs serving the corpse on a throne. In 4e, your warrior units just needed to be large enough not to be grossly outnumbered at the end of CC, which meant that they could take a punch and not break easy since they have Ld 10. The assault result mod for morale checks in 5e is death. Ergo, I'm down for the stubborn USR. If they do break, I can see them getting destroyed in a sweeping advance because they have mentally been reduced to zombies. But since they don't fear death, etc., they shouldn't fail their morale tests as often as they do now.

[gcsmith]

um w8 are we forgeting taus crappy CC?
Im all for maybe leaving Phase out, but I would insist they get fnp instead of IWBB, simply because I know whats alive for his turn and can plan accordingly.

But not every army needs CC look at tau. and kroot compare to flayed ones quite well.

[DarkLink]

um w8 are we forgeting taus crappy CC?

Yes, but tau have transports and much cheaper units. You sweeping advance a squad of fire warriors, no big deal. Only ~100points or so. Do the same thing to a squad of Necrons, and you're looking at 2-300 points gone.

[Lerra]

Tau are supposed to be weak in CC, though. Necrons are supposed to be powerful in CC but slow. They are supposed to be comparable to space marines in combat - not as fast, but hardier.

[Mal]

Lets compare the basic necron statline to the basic marine statline...

Necron: 4 4 4 4 1 2 1 10 3+
Marine: 4 4 4 4 1 4 1 8 3+

So the 'cron looses 2 points of I but gains 2 points of Ld (not to mention the WBB rule), so yes a cron is comparable to a marine in combat, what makes a marine so powerful in combat isn't their stats, its their rule ATSKNF, this means that they can never, under any circumstances be run down. Its easier to kill marines than it is necrons, but its easier to sweeping advance necrons than it is marines.