Deathwatch VS Grey Knights

[BFTrick]

I have a hypothetical question for you: who would win Deathwatch or Grey Knights? I have started to collect some Deathwatch marines and a buddy has started to collect some Grey Knights so I want to see if either army is better (in terms of fluff, not game mechanics) in any way.

1) Both forces are supposed to have the best equipment the mechanicus can provide: Deathwatch with their special ammunition and Grey Knights with their nemisis force weapons.

2) Deathwatch work in teams made from all the chapters, making each kill team stronger because of the diverse set of experience, skills, and tactics. Each Grey Knight is a psyker.

3) The Deathwatch get sent the best candidates from each chapter, but the Grey Knights have a rigorous initiation.

I think the equipment cancels each other out. The Deathwatch might be better at short range firefights and the Grey knights might be better in melee. The Deathwatch might get slightly better candidates because they are sent the best from each chapter where the Grey Knights only have the standard initiation (albeit more rigorous).

Each Grey Knight being a psyker is especially powerful. But the Deathwatch have a very broad skill set which they can use to set up very specialized kill teams to achieve a particular goal. They also have brothers from chapters that hate psykers and could have defenses against them (Black Templars, Space Wolves, etc). The Deathwatch also have access to virtually every space marine psychic power.

So if I had to vote for one I think I would vote for the Deathwatch. But because I just started building an army of them I might be biased.

What are your thoughts?

[Lucian Kain]

The DeathWatch are like the SAS/Legion/Spetznas/Seals of the Adeptus Astartes,the best of the best.The Grey Knights on the other hand are super human Tesla-Coils of psykic energy, they can think you dead if they want to.The Grey Knights were designed to be better than anything in the Known universe.The only thing I would conceed is that the Death Watch would possibly be better geared towards "Green Roll" opps' than the Grey Knights,more suited for "Black Roll" Opperations and more specific targets.

Edit;red so people will read whats important

[DarkLink]

Grey Knights win.

Deathwatch may be SM SAS, but Grey Knights are to Space Marines what Space Marines are to normal humans.

[Lerra]

It depends on which author is writing the fluff that day :P

I'd put them on par. In a specific situation, one might be better than the other, but overall they are both as epic as it gets.

[Melissia]

Not really, Deathwatch are basically just normal Marines with some experience fighting xenos at the Inquisition's behest.

Grey Knights are all powerful psykers, wielding storm bolters and force weapons.

Both wield special ammunition, of course, but if they faced eachother I think Deathwatch would be screwed.

[Faultie]

I concur with Melissia and others. It's a no-contest. Sure, no Space Marines go down without a fight, but Grey Knights are as awesome as they are for very specific reasons.

[Old_Paladin]

How is this even a question.
Grey Knights win handily.

The Deathwatch just fight aliens; orks, 'nids, eldar.
They might have gotten pretty good at it. But they are still targets that the Imperial Guard also fight against and often win.

Grey Knight fight DAEMONS. Immortal monsters from a different realm of existance. They are literally nightmares that take solid form.


An ork is fearsome; but a deamon is fear itself, given life.
A Farseer can use powers to influence your mind; daemons can bond to your immortal soul.
Tyranid spores can cause dozens of infections; Nurgle plauges can turn you into undead monsters, or cause you to bloat into a fleshy warp-gate.

There is a reason that the god-emperor formed the Grey Kights first, and the other ordos came along later. He needed a unique group that were strong enough (in every possible sense of the word) to fight the things that humanity could never hope to even be able to face otherwise.

[Grailkeeper]

Here's a thought Could a grey knight ever serve a term in the death watch? If they were fighting pyschic aliens or something that is almost a daemon but is alien too- avatar or enslavers or soemthing?

My gut reaction is no- they are the chamber militant of the Ordo malleus. But they are also technically a marine chapter- the 666th.

This would certainly benefit the death watch, but would probably benefit the Knight as well exposing himself to different learning environment and fighting styles etc.

I think fluff wise its unlikely but not impossible- what do you guys think?

[fuzzbuket]

i dont think a GK would ever abandon his sacred armour or abandon his sacred weapons: painting them black is sacralige 0_0

but stil if you had a sqad of GK for the DW theyd get bored arfter killing all the eldar and pointing thiere swords forward and ending up like gaunt kebab :D

[DarkLink]

Yeah, take a Deathwatch squad. Pretty awesome, right?

Now turn every one of them into a Librarian-level psyker.

Then give them all Artificer Armor with built in psychic defense wards to further enhance their psychic powers.

Now give them all Storm Bolters loaded with psychically charged super-bolts. Give them access to guns that make Heavy Bolters and Heavy Flamers look like a pea-shooter and a bic-lighter, respectively.

Now arm them with giant Swords, Halberds, etc, that feed off their psychic power, making them effectively Relic Blades that only Captains and Chapter Masters from the Space Marines have access to.


Now you have a squad Grey Knights.




I think fluff wise its unlikely but not impossible- what do you guys think?

Not likely. GKs are too rare and far too valuable to go on sabbatical.

[Mr.Pickelz]

In the GK omnibus at the very end when the justicar has lost his squad and was thought to be KIA, and he is finally recovered(aka escaped), the inquisitor he talks with says he has big plans for him...i could see a justicar or brother captain maybe leading one for one battle however that's very situational, in that, his squad is dead and there is still an enemy that needs to be purified. but on a permanent basis? NO, GK's are way too headstrong in their quest for killing daemons to worry about some tau commander who flicked off a random inquisitor, or an eldar farseer that didn't laugh at his jokes... Now if that tau commander exploded into nurglings...that's a different story...

[DarkLink]

In the GK omnibus at the very end when the justicar has lost his squad and was thought to be KIA, and he is finally recovered(aka escaped), the inquisitor he talks with says he has big plans for him...i could see a justicar or brother captain maybe leading one for one battle however that's very situational, in that, his squad is dead and there is still an enemy that needs to be purified. but on a permanent basis? NO, GK's are way too headstrong in their quest for killing daemons to worry about some tau commander who flicked off a random inquisitor, or an eldar farseer that didn't laugh at his jokes... Now if that tau commander exploded into nurglings...that's a different story...

Just keep in mind that it's not just specifically Daemons GKs fight. It could just as easily be traitor Guard or Space Marines, or anything else that has to do with Chaos.


If a bunch of Tau are sitting on a chaos artifact or something, then the Grey Knights will kill them and take the artifact. But a Grey Knight isn't going to join the Deathwatch in order to fight the Tau.

[armbarred]

I put money on GK over DW for all the reasons listed, plus:

DW are drawn from various chapters that may (probably don't) get along, and usually the teams are not together for a protracted length of time.

GK are a squad, dedicated and trained to work together. Their knowledge and loyalty to each other trumps DW


The scenario I see that puts this to the test: Ordo Xenos Inquisitor and teams fights an Eldar force that has come to cleanse a tainted world. In the process, the Ordo Xenos are corrupted and beat the Eldar. Ordo Malleus show up, and assuming they don't nuke the whole planet from orbit...

My money says the GK win.

[Grailkeeper]

In a straight up fair fight GK's every time.

But its worth rememebering that Deathwatch operate as a kill team so are used on stealth and assassination missions. If they were sent in on a stealth mission they'd have a better chance.

but as no gK has ever turned to chaos it is unlikely that such a mission would be ordered, and if the order was given, obeyed.

[artemi]

Here's a thought Could a grey knight ever serve a term in the death watch? If they were fighting pyschic aliens or something that is almost a daemon but is alien too- avatar or enslavers or soemthing?

My gut reaction is no- they are the chamber militant of the Ordo malleus. But they are also technically a marine chapter- the 666th.

This would certainly benefit the death watch, but would probably benefit the Knight as well exposing himself to different learning environment and fighting styles etc.

I think fluff wise its unlikely but not impossible- what do you guys think?

I think you are forgetting a couple key parts of the Grey Knight fluff, here. While the GKs ARE Space Marines, they are NOT a typical Chapter.

Remember, the Grey Knights do not use the Codex Astartes. They predate it, and they didn't participate in the Second Founding that created the current versions of the Space Marine Chapters we know currently. They are organized differently, not having standard Companies, Chapter Masters, Scouts, or many other similar positions. The basic battle group appears to be based at the squad level, and individual squads are left to their own judgment to engage or call in backup, and they very rarely link up for large campaigns. Various fluff accounts place their numbers closer to 3000 members, which is far above the usual 1000.

That said, they certainly COULD work with other Imperial forces. The last half of the novel Grey Knight has them fight with a group of Sister's of Battle against wayward Imperial Guard.

[scadugenga]

While I do agree that GK would probably win...there's some argument to be made in favor of the DW also:

Deathwatch aren't just Space Marines--they are effectively the best of the best. Which, I believe, puts them up on par with GK for skill/experience levels.

What puts the GK in their favor isn't just the storm bolters (to keep up that horrific rate of fire on the move, but the fact that their opponents are always under the "night fighting" rule to be able to target them--this allows the GK to get time to get up close and personal and use those nasty NFW.

The fact that they're psykers as well certainly helps.



There is a reason that the god-emperor formed the Grey Kights first,

The Emperor was on the Throne in stasis--I don't think they were founded on his order. They are the 666th Chapter, after all. :)

And to be fair--no one knew how big the 'Nid threat would be way back when. They're a relative new "oh eff me" menace to the galaxy.

So I give the edge to the GK, but only slightly.

[Mr.Pickelz]

Your right, but under extreme circumstances a GK justicar or BC or even a GM would pull rank to ensure that HIS mission is done, even if it's commandeering a DW KT (kill team), and yes the enemy force has to be corrupted or is in the" danger zone" of being corrupted for a GK team to deploy, but usualy the virus bombs are on stand by if Gk's are deployed. Inquisition weeds out the corruption, the GK's pwn it.

all in all GK's would win and they would only need one psyker power...Holocaust

[DarkLink]

Your right, but under extreme circumstances a GK justicar or BC or even a GM would pull rank to ensure that HIS mission is done, even if it's commandeering a DW KT (kill team), and yes the enemy force has to be corrupted or is in the" danger zone" of being corrupted for a GK team to deploy, but usualy the virus bombs are on stand by if Gk's are deployed. Inquisition weeds out the corruption, the GK's pwn it.

Yeah. To clarify, a Grey Knight wouldn't have a problem fighting alongside the Deathwatch, if they happened to have similar goals or whatnot. A Grey Knight wouldn't be likely to actually join the Deathwatch for a tour of duty, though.

[L192837465]

I can't believe people think DW could even hold water to GK. For holy sake, the GK chapter master and his retinue killed off Skarbrand and his retinue of BLOODTHIRSTERS. DW would have crapped themselves and called for the GK.

There's one GK guy who was trapped on a deamon world, his soul was corrupted by a deamon (greater, I believe) and he rejected the deamon by sheer will of force and went purging the entire planet until backup arrived.

DW killed some eldar. Maybe took out the teeth of a tyranid wave.

GK singlehandedly hold back the deamon incursion from wiping out everything.

[DarkLink]

There's one GK guy who was trapped on a deamon world, his soul was corrupted by a deamon (greater, I believe) and he rejected the deamon by sheer will of force and went purging the entire planet until backup arrived.

You mean force of will, right:p

[L192837465]

You mean force of will, right:p

Shut up. Yes.