View Full Version : What constitutes a 'full' Space Marine Chapter?
eldargal
08-23-2009, 06:59 AM
Ok, so according to the new SM Codex everything the Ultramarines have is listed below. My question is; how much of this would you say a player would require before he can claim to field a full SM chapter?
My brothers, who worked the whole thing out before the new codex and were ingeneral quite right (though they had double the dreadnought and thunderhawk capacity and a lot more predators and such) decided they could leave out the chapter command staff and half the servitor staff. They have the fleet capacity in BFG models and are working on the thunderhawks (they assumed they would need 38 gunships and 27 transports). Effectively one of them has everything but the thunderhawks and half the Honour Guard painted and ready to go (oh and to be pedantic he only has 15 techmarines). Another brother is working on a full Blood Angels chapter with quite a while to go yet.
Chapter Command:
Marneus Calgar, Ortan Cassius, 27 Honour Guard, 1700 equerries and servitors
Armoury:
Master of the Forge, 27 techmarines, 95 servitors, 25 predators, 8 vindicators, 9 whirlwinds, 12 land raiders.
Apothecarion:
Corpus Helix, 12 apothecaries
Fleet:
8 strike cruisers, 3 battle barges, 12 rapid strike vessels and most importantly 31 thunderhawk gunships.
Squads and such:
The equivalent of 9 command squads
20 Terminator or 10 veteran squads
44 Tactical squads
18 Assault squads
18 Devestator squads
Scouts, my brothers decided on 60 plus captain
Company vehicles:
90 rhinos (maybe less, they aren't mentioned in codex but if every squad has the option...)
26 dreadnoughts spread unevenly over the chapter
My brothers also assumed a capacity of around 100 bikes
eldargal
08-23-2009, 07:42 AM
The numbers represent squads, 20 5 man terminator squads.
only 2o terminators ?
Valdore
08-23-2009, 08:16 AM
20 5 man termie squads being the equivalent of 100 terminators, being the first company of any chapter.
Aldramelech
08-23-2009, 08:27 AM
Where do you store all this stuff????????? lol
Drunkencorgimaster
08-23-2009, 10:09 AM
Effectively one of them has everything but the thunderhawks and half the Honour Guard painted and ready to go
Damn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What do your brothers do for a living?
Since the Thunderhawks are not listed in the codex, I'd give them a pass on those items.
Alex Knight
08-23-2009, 02:30 PM
Whew... they are much further along than I am. I have my 3rd Company, *Almost* half my first company, about a third of my 2nd Company and *almost* all the tactical marines for my 4th Co.
The pain of course is that the 2nd Co is Ravenwing. Bikes and Speeders ain't cheap. :-P
Have not considered the armory above one Raider and one Predator...
gwensdad
08-23-2009, 02:47 PM
Part of the details depends on the chapters background. A Chapter less reliant on vehicles and more on bikes (White Scars) has fewer rhinos and probably fewer techmarines and servators, while other chapters (Iron Hands) would have lots of techmarines. I've wondered about the numbers of tanks the Ultramarines are supposed to have and if they are still rebuilding their armor forces from the battle of Mccrage.
When it comes to warship crew, I believe not all the crew are marines, but regular humans who serve the chapter-which also starts to bring up a question of the planetary PDF some chapters have.
So screw it! The Salamanders were counted as a chapter after the Horus Heresy and they could barely field 8 companies. (100 marines + 1 chaplain per company + 1 captain+5 man staff)*8=a chapter.
Now, when a completely new chapter is born, what does that look like? Does the new chapter master get a set number of vehicles (a "starter set" so to speak) or is the chapter responsible for building it's own rhinos, land raiders, transport ships, etc?
wittdooley
08-23-2009, 04:16 PM
The Sallies are a bit different, as they only have 6.5 comanies (only 60 scouts), but each company has 120 marines in it. I contemplated trying to do this...but not right now. I have a full 1st and 2nd Company for my Salamanders, but I don't nearly have the vehicles I should have for those two companies.
But seriously...they have 90 rhinos? Holy Christ.
20 5 man termie squads being the equivalent of 100 terminators, being the first company of any chapter.
I have never been under the impression that any chapter could field their entire first company in terminator armor. The armor is just too rare and hard to come by. So I would remain unconvinced of the 100 termies in most chapters. I suppose if anyone could do it it would be the smurfs.
gwensdad
08-23-2009, 06:08 PM
I have never been under the impression that any chapter could field their entire first company in terminator armor. The armor is just too rare and hard to come by. So I would remain unconvinced of the 100 termies in most chapters. I suppose if anyone could do it it would be the smurfs.
The Dark Angels are the "only" chapter that fields the entire 1st company as terminators.* The Ultrasmurfies lost many of their terminator suits against the tyranids so can't do a full 100.
An interesting point of fluff seems that only battle companies have to be at full strength. First company is only "the best of the best" and doesn't have to be at 100 marines (the modern Ultramarines only have 80-some members in it) and the reserve companies are always having troops pulled from them to replace loses in the battle companies. Then there's the scout company, which has no real set size and has it's members replace loses in the reserve companies.
And with that line of thought, can any chapter field all 1000 marines?
*GW cannon. Your cannon may vary.
ThePov
08-23-2009, 06:39 PM
Well, it would depend on the Chapter, obviously, (Black Templars constantly field well over 2000-3000 marines on various Crusades.) but I would think aside from Chapters that have just recently been founded or had extended refit time with very little action, basic combat attrition would ensure even the best chapter would likely be down about 50 Marines at any given time. Again, though, it would depend a lot on the chapter.
One thing I've always wondered, has an entire chapter ever been used at one time, in one battle, since the Heresy? I would imagine a defense of their homeworld would be the only reason, but I just have this image of an entire Chapter's fleet hanging over a world, fire drop pods and launching Thunderhawks for hours on end in a massive Planetary Assault. Would make one hell of a fun (and long, and expensive, and physically massive, and rediculous) Apoc battle.
eldargal
08-23-2009, 08:06 PM
Thanks for the replies. This is why I ask the question, what do YOU consider a full chapter? My brothers are going for the optimal approximately 1000 marine model, what would you do? I had no idea the Black Templars had 2-3 times the agree number.
ThePov, the new SM codex mentions the entire Ultramarine chapter being deployed once or twice, at the Sepulchre of Orlan (i think?) and prior to that during the tyranid invasion of Macragge (though this is implied more than stated).
the one
08-24-2009, 10:32 AM
Well on the board probally all but the stuff that doesn't have rule (so things like thunderhawks ARE included because of apocalypes rules). The reserve companies are rearly ever at max capacity so maybe half for those companies.
I'm aiming for a whole chapter to, but everything that can be, in drop pods and things that can't riding thunderhawks. 4 companies done...
ThePov
08-24-2009, 10:36 AM
Thanks for the replies. This is why I ask the question, what do YOU consider a full chapter? My brothers are going for the optimal approximately 1000 marine model, what would you do? I had no idea the Black Templars had 2-3 times the agree number.
ThePov, the new SM codex mentions the entire Ultramarine chapter being deployed once or twice, at the Sepulchre of Orlan (i think?) and prior to that during the tyranid invasion of Macragge (though this is implied more than stated).
Hmmm... thanks, I had forget about the Sepulchre.
And basically, I'd say that someone with a collection of 900+ marines could claim to have a chapter and no-one would call them on it. However, if you want more offical answers, check the Badab War book BoLS just put out. It has the full order of battle for all the chapters sent to fight, and since the Rebels obviously used their whole chapters, their entire chapters are listed. Gives you a little idea about how different chapters vary.
CrusherJoe
08-25-2009, 06:22 AM
...plus, if you're talking about Ultramar, you can't forget the (rather extensive, if memory serves) Ultramar PDF, which is supposedly large, well-funded and well-equipped -- maybe even moreso than an equivalent IG force.
As for having a "full chapter", go by the codex: each company is (ideally) 10 squads of 10 marines, with 10 companies total. It really gets tricky with the assault companies, though, as they pull double-duty as speeder pilots and bikers.
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