View Full Version : Dark Eldars most hated unit
What unit do you think will become common tou counter the new Dark Eldar rules?
Personally I think its the Thunderfire Cannon...
Its Str 6, AP4, Heavy 4 Blast.
This means it hits you automatically (if the templates touches your base), wounds you on a 2+, ignores the best average armour in the codex and will also ignore FnP for the T3 space perverts. Now being Heavy 4 Blast means the Tfire player gets to put 4 blst templates where ever he likes on your unit, and because they are all fired at the same time, he gets to check how many of your unit is hit before rolling a single wound dice...
What this means is that if you have your unit set up so there is a single place to put the template that will hit 4 models and everywhere else hits less than 4, then the tfire player can put all 4 templates on that one spot and get 16 wound dice against your unit that kill you outright (instant death for our characters too!) on a 2+..
Of course there is scatter to take into account... but Bs4 is pretty good at ensuring the templates don't move much most of the time.
So what do you think will become popular for hurting the space perverts?
Cyberscape7
10-20-2010, 05:08 AM
Tbh Flamestorm cannons would be my weapon of choice. pretty sure they're S6 so no FnP and it will ignore armour and cover saves to boot. But the best part since the Redeemer counts as having two flamestorm cannons you can use PoMS to target two warrior squads at once. :cool:
Yes i'd expect they would be effective once you get them in range, plus its anti-MEQ so it'd find a place in an all comers list.
isotope99
10-20-2010, 05:50 AM
It seems odd that you can hit the same models four times with one weapon and not be limited to only killing them. I'm not saying you're wrong, but something to be fixed next edition I think. Agree that this looks like a nasty weapon.
Plus point for the dark eldar though is that it is direct fire, so should be exposed to return AP 2 dark lance fire which should instant kill it if you can get past the cover save.
Land raiders are going to be less effective with all the 'lance' capable weapons that DE can field.
My vote still goes to SW long fangs with 4 ML, the ability to split fire and kill two raiders a turn or pile frag templates on loose squads makes them flexible and long range enough to avoid most counter attacks for a turn or two.
BuFFo
10-20-2010, 06:03 AM
Any weapon with Strength 5+.
fuzzbuket
10-20-2010, 10:01 AM
im going to say dreadnoughts and drop pods.. as well as scouts... DE seem to be good at killing small super toughs and hordes by having controll of movement... pick your fights seems like the DE denying them that well... ^__^
the common stock chimera and it's pitty laser.
3 shots s6 will ignore both our FNP and be good at killing our vehicles.
hydras as well for not allowing cover from fast moving. extra brutal if you are a biker-heavy army.
Unlighted
10-20-2010, 11:15 AM
I would have to say that Chaos Space Marines would have great success with the following.
Havoc Squad with 4 Autocannons 2 shots of S7 AP4 goodness per Autocannon :)
If you take 3 squads of this you'll have 24 strength 7 shots per shooting phase. No Feel No Pain and you'll make swiss cheese out of most Dark Eldar vehicles.
Mr.Pickelz
10-20-2010, 12:07 PM
in a battle vs my GK's i almost won cause i got good rolls with psycannon spam and wrecked him and obliterated his squads..although my GM's retinue got raped by the duke...
Lockark
10-20-2010, 12:10 PM
the common stock chimera and it's pitty laser.
3 shots s6 will ignore both our FNP and be good at killing our vehicles.
hydras as well for not allowing cover from fast moving. extra brutal if you are a biker-heavy army.
The chimeria is the one that I would fear the most my self.
With Hydra, Thunder fire cannons, and Havoc/devastators I see most lists just take the one unit of these.
When your facing a Mec Guard list? This is a huge problem. Because every tank they can take has the ability to kill your transports.
It doesn't matter you wiped out the unit of hydras, or some Leeman Russ, with the 5 chimerias open fire.
D=
Oblit spam Chaos Lists as the other thing that would make Dark Eldar cringe. That and if there are still any Long Fang heavy space wolf armies running around.
lowdog
10-20-2010, 12:42 PM
Rifleman dreads? 2 or 3 of them in a battery could put the hurt on vehicles and squads both.
Especially in a SW force that is running multiple Long Fangs with Heavy Bolters instead of Missile Launchers. Because the dreds could be relied on for taking out transports, then 30-45 heavy bolter shots that can target anywhere from 3-6 units...
Cyberscape7
10-20-2010, 12:46 PM
Land raiders are going to be less effective with all the 'lance' capable weapons that...
True. The only thing that can completely nulify tht advantage is of course the monolith. Which brings an interesting point. One of the only 3rd Ed' dexs that will remain after the DE update contains, quite possibly, the most annoying vehicle in the game of 40k and nearly the entire army has, essentially, FnP. I think the crons could be the most annoying army! Period.
mstingray
10-20-2010, 12:51 PM
I would say Tau XV8s, except for the flamer all of their weapons can penetrate raiders, and also can destroy a few Dark eldar (cyclic ion blaster) the only problem is the inevitable charge from the angry wyches.
isotope99
10-20-2010, 12:52 PM
Mathhammer says approx. 33% chance of inflicting at least one glancing or penetrating hit on a raider (which is all you're likely to need to deprive it of its effectiveness) with a Chimera multilaser, assuming the raider gets a 4+ cover save from going flat out or being obscured.
Good, but not devastating, so you'll still need a lot of chimeras to inflict real damage on a raiding force. (Helps of course if you have heavy bolters in the hull)
The chance if the raider doesn't get the save rises to about 58%, more evidence that DE need to get that first turn or somehow stay out of sight if going second (e.g. behind terrain or in reserve).
w7west
10-20-2010, 01:40 PM
Well you can't beat the DE in close combat, that would be playing their game. What you can do is point any gun str 5 at a raider and blow it up, or point 3 or more of these guns at a squad and rip them apart.
Been that way for oh, 12 years or so.
In other news, study shows paralyzed man has lower chance of escaping bear attack.
Porty1119
10-20-2010, 03:18 PM
Vendetta. 3 Twin-linked lascannons.
Any questions?
Yeah whats the front/side armour of a vendetta, and how much does it cost... because I know a reliable technique to kill it first turn for 65 points... without firing a shot.
BuFFo
10-20-2010, 07:51 PM
Land raiders are going to be less effective with all the 'lance' capable weapons that DE can field.
This is highly incorrect when you say 'going to be'...
Current DE book - 2 Dark Lances and 2 Blasters in a 10 man Warrior Squad for 30 points.
New DE book - 2 Dark lances and 1 Blaster in a 20 man Warrior Squad for 65 points
See the difference?
Us Dark Eldar players enjoyed our time in the sun with Lance Spam for 12 years. Now, the spam is over, and it is time to find other ways to build good lists.
LemanRussCommander
10-20-2010, 08:48 PM
Buffo you keep trying to remind everyone that DE didn't die off, but it doesn't seem like most people are listening. I haven't read the new 'dex yet but it seems that instead of buying a new car they just polished the rims, waxed her up and bought some new pine tree air fresheners
DarkLink
10-20-2010, 11:37 PM
Buffo you keep trying to remind everyone that DE didn't die off, but it doesn't seem like most people are listening. I haven't read the new 'dex yet but it seems that instead of buying a new car they just polished the rims, waxed her up and bought some new pine tree air fresheners
Yeah, well, now I guess they swapped out the engine, too. It's got more horsepower, but it doesn't corner quite as well due to the extra weight. So you'll have to tweak your racing strategy a bit.
Every codex that went through this revamp was drastically changed, yet kept a lot of its original character... DE are no different in this respect.
The new codex will breathe a new lease of life into the army, the army is now a whole lot more forgiving on the listbuilding side, and even a little more forgiving on the game side (FnP means that mistake may not cost you your entire primary unit).
(sory to steal your metaphore darklink)
Essentially its gone from being a toyota to a lotus.... same manufacturer for the most part, but some very important differences that mean you'll have to relearn how to drive it effectively.
Cyberscape7
10-21-2010, 02:56 AM
Wait are we still talking about Dark Eldar or Top Gear?
Lol, can't we be talking about both? :p
Farseer Uthiliesh
10-21-2010, 06:09 AM
Something tells me Jeremy Clarkson collects Orks.
No, that'd be richard hammond, he crashes more...
BuFFo
10-21-2010, 07:39 AM
Buffo you keep trying to remind everyone that DE didn't die off, but it doesn't seem like most people are listening. I haven't read the new 'dex yet but it seems that instead of buying a new car they just polished the rims, waxed her up and bought some new pine tree air fresheners
What?
I have no idea what you are on about here.
Facts are facts.
If you want power, which would you have in the example I gave when it comes to busting LandRaiders?
DarkLink
10-21-2010, 10:38 AM
(sory to steal your metaphore darklink)
Heh, I stole it in the first place, so it's all good;)
Cyberscape7
10-21-2010, 11:21 AM
Something tells me Jeremy Clarkson collects Orks.
He likes red cars and screams POWER! He doesn't collect orks, he is an ork!
fuzzbuket
10-21-2010, 11:28 AM
Something tells me Jeremy Clarkson collects Orks.
wait the hamster.. skaven.. rat man... hamster :confused:
HawaiiMatt
10-21-2010, 01:01 PM
I've always liked warwalkers.
6 eldar missile launchers give you either 6 krack shots, or 6 S4 AP4 pinning blasts. With the low BS on the warwalkers, those blasts scatter pretty well; which will let you spread the pinning love over a pretty good sized area.
Hold them in reserve, then flank march them in. Use an Autarch to keep them off the table until later in the game.
How about grey knights in power armor? They get the whole you can't see me thing, along with good volumes of S4 shooting, and S6 in hand to hand to deal with that feel no pain.
-Matt
Freefall945
10-21-2010, 01:23 PM
The Monolith.
Now that everything they have is poisoned, the Monolith is the only unit in the game Dark Eldar will have trouble dealing with, and every turn it'll schlurp a Necron squad out of melee with whomever, plant then three feet away, and allow them to wash away the Dark Eldar with the cleansing power of lemon. Gauss.
I can't remember the wording on the rules for the GK's shroud abality, but doesn't night vision/acute senses counter this?
Pretty much all dark eldar have night vision...
DarkLink
10-21-2010, 02:34 PM
I can't remember the wording on the rules for the GK's shroud abality, but doesn't night vision/acute senses counter this?
Pretty much all dark eldar have night vision...
No, Night Vision doesn't work. The only thing that gets any bonus against the Shrouding are enemy psykers, who may reroll the 3d6x3.
Ok, well I doubt it'll be much of a problem, DE are fast enough to close the distance that they can get a good average on the rolls.
Lucian Kain
10-21-2010, 02:43 PM
in a battle vs my GK's i almost won cause i got good rolls with psycannon spam and wrecked him and obliterated his squads..although my GM's retinue got raped by the duke...
Not for much longer though me thinks, January maybe S6 Rending Force weapons ;)
DarkLink
10-21-2010, 03:29 PM
Ok, well I doubt it'll be much of a problem, DE are fast enough to close the distance that they can get a good average on the rolls.
Shrouding isn't a problem for anyone, except maybe IG with all their 36"+ range shooting. But once someone gets within ~30", it won't help the GK player in the least bit. In fact, I'm pretty sure the rule is just there to let us GK players annoy their opponent with all those extra dice rolls they'll have to do, even if it won't help the GK player:rolleyes:.
Not for much longer though me thinks, January maybe S6 Rending Force weapons ;)
Probably not rending. Turns out the source of that particular rumor was some @#$% who made it up, and lied to everyone for kicks.
There are rumors of power weapon NFW's for everyone, though, and this one isn't from some random liar.
Why would you need a rending force weapon, force weapons already ignore armour... sure rending is slightly better against AV... by a massive D3... woo!
Whoever made that up must have just thought it sounded cool, because its a waste of a USR.
DarkLink
10-21-2010, 04:43 PM
Why would you need a rending force weapon, force weapons already ignore armour... sure rending is slightly better against AV... by a massive D3... woo!
Whoever made that up must have just thought it sounded cool, because its a waste of a USR.
Grey Knights in power armor don't have power weapons.
Nemesis Force Weapons are not actually Force Weapons. GKs all get Str 6. Justicars, Terminators, Brother Captains and Grand Master ignore armor saves, and Grand Masters also get an actual Force Weapon.
So Rending would be a fairly good upgrade. Maybe not against DE, since they don't have good armor anyways, but against MEQ. Plus, you could actually hurt Dreads and the like in CC, so that extra D3 would actually be really nice.
Not for much longer though me thinks, January maybe S6 Rending Force weapons ;)
This quote says force weapons, not NFW.
force weapon ≠ NFW
so a rending NFW is useful, but a rending force weapon is redundant.
DarkLink
10-21-2010, 08:46 PM
This quote says force weapons, not NFW.
force weapon ≠ NFW
so a rending NFW is useful, but a rending force weapon is redundant.
Ah, ok. Yeah, that would be pretty useless, especially since the Grand Master is the only one currently with a Force weapon, so only he would get rending:rolleyes:
HawaiiMatt
10-22-2010, 04:15 PM
The Monolith.
Now that everything they have is poisoned, the Monolith is the only unit in the game Dark Eldar will have trouble dealing with, and every turn it'll schlurp a Necron squad out of melee with whomever, plant then three feet away, and allow them to wash away the Dark Eldar with the cleansing power of lemon. Gauss.
My Eldar never had issues with monoliths. I'd just bum rush them with haywire. Hitting on 4's is a lot of haywire love.
Who gets haywire in the new DE list?
-Matt
My Eldar never had issues with monoliths. I'd just bum rush them with haywire. Hitting on 4's is a lot of haywire love.
Who gets haywire in the new DE list?
-Matt
Scourges
Wyches
Hekatrix Bloodbrides
Kabalite Trueborn
Succubus
Archon
rle68
10-29-2010, 01:41 AM
i dont know why some people are saying the DE now are the kings of close combat they arent anymore by any means( not to what they used to be)
yes they still will go first in most cases
(UNITS) mostly hit on 4's ws 4 hit 3's s3 wound on 5's 6's (t4) you get armor saves 3+ marine etc this is for the common units not special characters
their saves 5's 6's 4+i if you are silly enough to use wych squads wich i wont ever again
the raiders should be a bit more survivable now with the flickershield yeah its a 5+ invo but its better then nothing
and now if you take off the dl its a 24" ramming tank w/ shock prows which you should always have on them
Buffo i dont know where you think dl spam is gone my first list had 17 in it now it only has 12 but i have 12 blasters now that i didnt have before
and to answer the post question: any army that has weapons to shoot me with
Seriously man? you honestly thnk wyches are that bad?
Are you playing from the same codex as me? You know the Codex: Dark Eldar thats released early next month? The same codex what gave me wyches that ate a deamon prince in 1 turn, then annihilated a unit of chaos space marines without taking a single hit back...
If the unit really isn't working for you, then perhaps the problem is you rather than the unit because they sure as hell work great for me.
The only time wyches are in trouble is if your stuck in the open and get shot up... but then this has always been their weakness.
DL spam is still about, but its less effective (lets face it DL's are good but they are not great), you can win games with it when your opponent lets you.
rle68
10-29-2010, 07:46 AM
Seriously man? you honestly thnk wyches are that bad?
Are you playing from the same codex as me? You know the Codex: Dark Eldar thats released early next month? The same codex what gave me wyches that ate a deamon prince in 1 turn, then annihilated a unit of chaos space marines without taking a single hit back...
If the unit really isn't working for you, then perhaps the problem is you rather than the unit because they sure as hell work great for me.
The only time wyches are in trouble is if your stuck in the open and get shot up... but then this has always been their weakness.
DL spam is still about, but its less effective (lets face it DL's are good but they are not great), you can win games with it when your opponent lets you.
Yes Mal
i do think wyches are that bad. the silly aspect of the wych weapons only affecting the model carrying it is an absolute joke. this is so easily countered by anyone with half a brain that knows how to move models when they have to engage you dont move anything near the model so that wych weapon may affect 2 models at most unless its a big hoard and the fact they removed the blaster form their list is another insult i cant stand
in the old dex they didnt hardly get hit back with the old wych weapons or if they did they needed 5or6's to get hit now in 5th the worst anyone needs is a freaking 4 having a high weapon skill advantage means nothing anymore now having only ws4 maybe getting ws5 on drug role leaves them having to wound on 5's and 6's
by all rights that demon prince should have ate you alive and made you make a ton of 4+ saves versus his 2+ again that depends on what you tooled them up with
your example of killing a deamon prince to me is one of great die luck and poor die luck for the deamon prince
yes you can add a slew or extra stuff to make wyches more uber nasty but it costs and costs and costs to me that cost for a less effective unit is a sore spot with me
MarshalAdamar
10-29-2010, 08:42 AM
True. The only thing that can completely nulify tht advantage is of course the monolith. Which brings an interesting point. One of the only 3rd Ed' dexs that will remain after the DE update contains, quite possibly, the most annoying vehicle in the game of 40k and nearly the entire army has, essentially, FnP. I think the crons could be the most annoying army! Period.
Don't forget that the Black Templars can still take "Blessed Hull" to counter the effects of Lance weapons!
(GRIN)
rle68 you have already stated have not yet played the new codex yet here you are telling me the unit is no good when I have played the new codex and found them to be very good... don't take this the wrong way but i'll take my experience over your assumption any day of the week.
The wyches may not look like much on paper, but have you considered that there may be a reason why everyone who has used them likes them?
As for them being expensive? they are 10 points a model, thats nearly half the price of a space marine and they get a 4+ inv in combat... thats fricking cheap!
It is true they are a little less effective than they used to be, but this can be a good thing... it makes it easier to not wipe your opponents unit out the turn you charge (although I usually do break them and run them down), the second round of combat should be more then enough to finish the unit up meaning you cannot be shot in your opponents turn and your free to go hunting in your turn.
All in all I think the new wyches are superior to the old ones, all you need to do is learn to play them right.
The old wych weapons are gone, accept it, move on, adapt and you'll see the wyches are still well worth taking.
BuFFo
10-29-2010, 10:17 AM
I was wrong about Lelith....
She went into a MEQ Command Squad, had 11 attacks, and destroyed the entire squad and left the Commander standing. The Wyches then cleaned him up quickly.
The ability to give - attacks to the enemy is so powerful, my gosh. Now I know how lash whip tyranid players are feeling with this. I just move in my Shardnet Wyches into terminators, HQs, MCs, anything, and I watch as they try to attack back with their pathetic single attack.
Oh... And after you get a pain token, forget it... Wyches now have, basically, double 4+ saves against most opponents.
The basic troop wych is now vastly more powerful than they were in the previous book.
And then you take the Bloodbrides, which have an extra attack and three Shardnets! All for the price of the ORIGINAL wyches in the old codex!
Dark Eldar may not be kings of close combat, but anyone who has faced them knows how devious and powerful our units can be.
Just wait until I am able to post up my match between my Wych Cult versus Space Wolves...
To stay on topic, we still fear Tau :)
I think with the new WWP placement rules our fear of the souless blue blighters may be at an end... After all they crumple in combat faster than pretty much anything else in the game, and we have the abality to get int combat the turn we arrive removing the risk of taking incomming fire like before.
I can see the WWP being really big against gunlines now.
Blackyujiro
10-29-2010, 11:57 AM
Most hated unit? As of yesterday...the frigging Imp Guard(Vets i think)that deep struck behind my Hellions and almost killed half the unit with shooting. But on the plus side, I turned around and after shooting, charging, and snatching the lord Commissar out of the unit, only two survived.
On another note: For any who were interested, scougre with Haywire grenade Launchers are pretty damn nasty against Guard. They literally kept most things stunned out of the game, when I didn't manage a lucky roll of 6.
eldargal
10-29-2010, 12:23 PM
That's good to hear.:)
I was wrong about Lelith....
She went into a MEQ Command Squad, had 11 attacks, and destroyed the entire squad and left the Commander standing. The Wyches then cleaned him up quickly.
To stay on topic, we still fear Tau :)
DarkLink
10-29-2010, 03:35 PM
i do think wyches are that bad. the silly aspect of the wych weapons only affecting the model carrying it is an absolute joke. this is so easily countered by anyone with half a brain that knows how to move models when they have to engage you dont move anything near the model so that wych weapon may affect 2 models at most unless its a big hoard and the fact they removed the blaster form their list is another insult i cant stand
So... wyches are slightly less killy than last ed., and that automatically makes them horrible?
by all rights that demon prince should have ate you alive and made you make a ton of 4+ saves versus his 2+ again that depends on what you tooled them up with
You do realize that Daemon Princes can no longer get a 2+ save, right?
Incidentally, a Daemon Prince will only do 1-2 wounds to a unit of Wyches, depending on the various unit upgrades, while a full unit of Wyches can stack a lot more wounds on him than that.
I've not worked out the math (and I really can't be bothered to) but I have found that a 10 strong unit of wyches (with succubus/agoniser upgrade) will do an average of 3-4 wounds on a DP... and they only have 4 wounds...
To be confident of a kill you only need to take a single wound from them with shooting... not exactly a great feat.
rle68
10-29-2010, 07:21 PM
I've not worked out the math (and I really can't be bothered to) but I have found that a 10 strong unit of wyches (with succubus/agoniser upgrade) will do an average of 3-4 wounds on a DP... and they only have 4 wounds...
To be confident of a kill you only need to take a single wound from them with shooting... not exactly a great feat.
thats true with poison weapons and all of that but you need 10 wyches to do what used to be done with 6 its a whole new points useage
rle68
10-29-2010, 07:29 PM
rle68 you have already stated have not yet played the new codex yet here you are telling me the unit is no good when I have played the new codex and found them to be very good... don't take this the wrong way but i'll take my experience over your assumption any day of the week.
The wyches may not look like much on paper, but have you considered that there may be a reason why everyone who has used them likes them?
As for them being expensive? they are 10 points a model, thats nearly half the price of a space marine and they get a 4+ inv in combat... thats fricking cheap!
It is true they are a little less effective than they used to be, but this can be a good thing... it makes it easier to not wipe your opponents unit out the turn you charge (although I usually do break them and run them down), the second round of combat should be more then enough to finish the unit up meaning you cannot be shot in your opponents turn and your free to go hunting in your turn.
All in all I think the new wyches are superior to the old ones, all you need to do is learn to play them right.
The old wych weapons are gone, accept it, move on, adapt and you'll see the wyches are still well worth taking.
MAL
while i respect your knowledge of the new dex i have played old wyches far longer then most. there isnt much needed to know how to play them from old dex to new dex . the one fact that escapes you is theyare not as efficient in this dex as they once were . this is a mixed blessing i agree
you also say they are 2 points cheaper per model but you need 10 models to get a wych weapon thats 32 more points plus the 10 for the weapon now add up your dracon/succubus and her add ons and what unit is cheaper? the old ones were cheaper and more effective... come on face the facts the new wyches are more expensive and dont do as much the ommision of blasters is inexcusable
yes i freely admit im disgusted by their nerfing yes thats my opinion yes i have removed the unit from my choices if you dont like the unit you dont play them
rle68
10-29-2010, 09:49 PM
Mal
just wanted you to know i am reconsidering my stand on wyches i still dont like them i can see your point so who know ill try it both ways and see
BuFFo
10-30-2010, 01:47 AM
Wyches got cheaper than in the last codex for the same effectiveness. The only 'nerf' is that wyches can no longer take blasters. So what? They never did much for me anyway. Shardnets are the only upgrade worth taking, and the ability to drop a Demon Prince from 4 attacks to 2 attacks is just boss. Something the old Wyches could not do.
Remember, the old wyches were the same cost as the new Bloodbrides, and the BBs have +1 attack, +1 LD, and the ability to negate three attacks from the enemy.
Wych Weapons... I already forgot about them.....
jumai
10-30-2010, 07:31 PM
Something that might get irritating for Dark Eldar players is empty razorbacks. 40 points for a mobile terrain piece with twin linked heavy bolter probably pays off against them. A 55 point BA razorback with twin linked heavy flamer would be pretty terrifying for footsloggers trying to cross the board... a 12" radius of potential origin points for a template that kills your guys on a rerollable 2+ ignoring armour and cover... and killing it is a waste of firepower. Awesome.
To be completely honest I don't think their presence will cause lists to change much after things have shaken themselves out... they seem like an opponent that's more susceptible to in-game strategy disruption than to certain types of model. Out of everything in the Marines book, I'd probably rate Combat Tactics more specifically useful than most of the squads.
Plus, if something does need to be added in, the humble Flamer is going to be an obvious place to start for MEq. Which isn't going to be a noticeable change for other opponents. Half of the appeal is you get the extra tool you wanted without the need to re-think a perfectly good army... find 30-40 points, buy some combi-weapons, and roll out. The razorback idea kind of has this effect too... nothing stops you using the razorbacks you're already fielding a little different in certain matchups.
So yeah, if you play against a lot of all comers Marine armies, I wouldn't be counting on a big metagame shakeup.
As a Chaos player, yes Wyches look annoying for DP's, but the conspicuous absence of powerfists from the DE book leads to something unexpected... like +5 viable alternatives. Lucius's I6, WS7, and retaliation ability suddenly become relevant. Huron's warptime + heavy flamer gains a lot of appeal. Several Lord configurations become solid... perhaps especially the Slaanishi daemon weapon weilder (how appropriate) with his spammy I6 attacks causing instant death (I see sslyth, grotesques, haemonculi, beastmaster minions, and the talos/cronos for him to prey on). Abruptly there's nothing wrong with the Sorcerer, who can outfight most Lords via Warptime and still force weapon something via MoT... and even if it's mostly for teh lulz, that build can add Gift of Chaos and force a shadow field archon to pass 2 toughness tests or become a Chaos Spawn. Hell, even Fabius Bile looks less bad considering his lack of power weapon is his biggest problem and his gun behaves like a heavy bolter against wyches.
Abbadon and Kharn already pop up from time to time, but they both become a little easier to justify against DE as well. Kharn because of less powerfist-gib, WS7, potential I6 + S6, and general killiness, Abbadon likewise gets to flex his WS7/I6, and might be awkward for opponents who rely on shardnets to handle scary HQs. Sure -3 attacks should keep things manageable, but he's still rolling 5+ attacks in 50% of combats... prepared to chance it?
DrLove42
10-31-2010, 03:22 AM
Was thinking after a game with my Tau the other day...
Imperial Guard Hydras.
S7 (So no FNP)
AP4 (So basically no saves for anyone)
Ignore Turboboost/Flat Out cover save...
So if it hits a Reaver its dead with no saves of any kind, even if he boosted. Same goes for Raiders and Reavers.
And its main weapon is 2 seperate weapons. So you need 2 weapon destroyed to stop it. And then the Bolter on the front ignores the covers saves as well (which makes no sense to me)
BuFFo
10-31-2010, 03:25 AM
As a Chaos player, yes Wyches look annoying for DP's, but the conspicuous absence of powerfists from the DE book leads to something unexpected...
Actually, it is quite expected, as Dark Eldar has never had powerfist type weapons in the 12 years they have been around....
jumai
10-31-2010, 01:57 PM
When Dark Eldar came out, an allowance of 100 points from the Chaos armoury was tantamount to cheating and close combat attacks didn't use weapon properties unless the attacker was in base to base at the start of his initiative step. If your chaos lords were getting creamed by power fists in 3rd, you were doing it wrong.
BuFFo
10-31-2010, 03:27 PM
When Dark Eldar came out, an allowance of 100 points from the Chaos armoury was tantamount to cheating and close combat attacks didn't use weapon properties unless the attacker was in base to base at the start of his initiative step. If your chaos lords were getting creamed by power fists in 3rd, you were doing it wrong.
Who are you responding to? I don't recall anyone mentioning that DE should get 100 points from the Chaos Armory, or anything about 3rd edition lol.
Imperial Guard Hydras.
S7 (So no FNP)
AP4 (So basically no saves for anyone)
Ignore Turboboost/Flat Out cover save...
So if it hits a Reaver its dead with no saves of any kind, even if he boosted.
My Reaver's AV14 would like to object the fact that S7 is of any harm. Even if it were the 6 Structure points and 4 Void shields would seam save enough to assume you are not killing it with a single shot ;)
But then it isnt allowed in normal games...
DrLove42
11-01-2010, 04:08 AM
Referring to Reaver Jet Bikes :P
Besides S7 will take off void shields as they're only AV:12 :P
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