Sisters of Battle

[Mobynick]

Has anyone heard anything about a new SOB codex.
Anyone want to take an educated guess when one might be released?

[DarkLink]

There are pretty reliable rumors that they are in the works currently.

It's unclear exactly when they will come out, but it looks like sometime next year, probably in the second half.

The current release schedule is rumored to be this: DE (confirmed, obviously), then Grey Knights, and then Sister of Battle or Necrons after that.

[artemi]

Tau are also in the works, it sounds like. There has also been little to no rumors, even wildly vague ones, for Eldar, Chaos (both Marines and Deamons), or Orks. On the Imperial side, there doesn't seem to be anything happening for either Dark Angels or Black Templars.

So, that leaves Grey Knights, Necrons, Tau, and possibly Sisters. Grey Knights are almost guaranteed to be next. Necrons are the last third edition codex, which makes me guess that it's high priority. Both Necron and Tau rumors seem more solid then anything for the Sisters, but the fact that there are rumors at all seem to point to them being more possible then any of the armies I listed in the first group.

[Mobynick]

I was going to get caught up in the dark eldar release, if I can just hold off till sisters come out....who am I kidding :D
I don't have many opponents here and DE vrs DE seems rather hohum and I like the WH's and all their fluer de lys's.
So hopefully next year ...gives me time to save up and get everything at once I guess. Thanks for your input.

[Brass Scorpion]

Has anyone heard anything about a new SOB codex. You are a brave person to even ask that question.

[DarkLink]

Tau are also in the works, it sounds like. There has also been little to no rumors, even wildly vague ones, for Eldar, Chaos (both Marines and Deamons), or Orks. On the Imperial side, there doesn't seem to be anything happening for either Dark Angels or Black Templars.


There's a lot more actual rumors about Sisters than about Tau.

[imperialsavant]

I was going to get caught up in the dark eldar release, if I can just hold off till sisters come out....who am I kidding :D
I don't have many opponents here and DE vrs DE seems rather hohum and I like the WH's and all their fluer de lys's.
So hopefully next year ...gives me time to save up and get everything at once I guess. Thanks for your input.

;) G'day Moby! Just keep the Faith until a new Codex does arrive. A well crafted & balanced Sisters Army with lots of Faith points can still rock.
Last Games night at our Club my 1900 pt Sisters Army defeated a Blood Angels Army by holding 1 uncontested Objective to none. Managed to kill Metaphiston & 10 Death Company along the way.(plus lots of other stuff like 3 Attack bikes etc):D

[artemi]

;) G'day Moby! Just keep the Faith until a new Codex does arrive. A well crafted & balanced Sisters Army with lots of Faith points can still rock.
Last Games night at our Club my 1900 pt Sisters Army defeated a Blood Angels Army by holding 1 uncontested Objective to none. Managed to kill Metaphiston & 10 Death Company along the way.(plus lots of other stuff like 3 Attack bikes etc):D

I actually was going to point that out. While the Sisters have a older codex, there's is not suffering from codex creep nearly as badly as others. *coughNecronscough*

They can get lots of well priced Immolators if you wanna do mech, or a surprisingly large number of 3+ stubborn bodies if you prefer foot. They even do some similar things better the current books, as the Immolator is more or less a close range Razorback with old extra armor prices, 'rending' bolters/ flamers, and it's generally easier to get tons of melta into Sisters lists as a whole. Add in Inquisitors with table wide psychic hoods, 'A word in your ear' Callidus assassins, and the ability to splash the new Grey Knight goodies when they get their new codex, you've got a really solid book.

Of course, the downsides are the fact that they are mostly direct order these days combined with a fully metal range...

Still, you could do a lot worse then start your collection now. The models as is still look rather good compared to newer lines, and aren't going to look nearly as bad as other sculpt comparisons, I suspect.

[Calypso2ts]

Correct me if I am wrong but I was under the impression the WH codex came out in 3rd edition as well??

The prices in the SoB codex do not make them competitive. Their transports cost 15 points more than a SM equivalent (and come w/o smoke and do not get 'auto glance' smoke either, they pay for all their special weapons and a Veteran Superior is almost mandatory to unlock their powers which costs 3 points more in addition to a standard SoB. This means a full SoB squad can have meltas, flamers and heavy flamers but they do not come with long range shooting and cost just about the same as a SM tactical and do not have the ability to combat squad. They also have WS/S/T/I 3 which gets then beaten in assault and they do not come with Frag or Krak grenades standard.

They have one viable HS choice which is good, but needs multiples to be reliable (Exorcist). Inquisitor Lords are a terrible point sink, even for their Psychic hood, and are almost never taken. The assassins are generally overpriced w/o grenades and require an Inquisitor which further inflates their cost.

The book has some of the worst acknowledge units in the game - Repentia and Penitent Engines while also sporting Arco Flagellants and over costed naked Priests as well.

Further, some units have lost their luster - seraphim I am looking at you although the changes to mech have been a general advantage to SoB who were usually mechanized before anyway.

That is not to say there are not good parts to the book. Even if you need more than one, Exorcists are awesome at blowing up transports, the Faith powers make for dynamic play with some really powerful combinations and a canonness can be a nightmare for an opponent. For Mech Immolaters are good in spite of being overcosted and you can generate a large number of them to saturate the board, meltas are abundant and the lack of long range firepower in troops is partially compensated by Exorcists..

[DarkLink]

The prices in the SoB codex do not make them competitive. Their transports cost 15 points more than a SM equivalent (and come w/o smoke and do not get 'auto glance' smoke either, they pay for all their special weapons and a Veteran Superior is almost mandatory to unlock their powers which costs 3 points more in addition to a standard SoB.

Whoop-de-do, stuff is slightly more expensive than it is in newer codices. I'm sure that 3 whole points per squad cheaper would make Sisters the best army in the game:rolleyes:.

None of this changes the fact that Sisters can still bring a significant amount of short-range firepower to bear on their opponent, and have several solid units, and are still competitive.

Sure, they're not as good as Guard or Space Wolves. But that doesn't mean they're as weak as Necrons or Grey Knights.



This means a full SoB squad can have meltas, flamers and heavy flamers but they do not come with long range shooting and cost just about the same as a SM tactical and do not have the ability to combat squad.

Sisters might not have much firepower beyond 12-24" excluding the exorcist, but within that 12" range there are few armies that can match their firepower. And the exorcist is best defined as a workhorse of a main battle tank.



They also have WS/S/T/I 3 which gets then beaten in assault and they do not come with Frag or Krak grenades standard.

Just because a unit isn't good in CC doesn't mean it's not a good unit. Besides, you shouldn't be assaulting with Sisters (excluding Seraphim). You will do more damage rapid-firing. Much more damage.



They have one viable HS choice which is good, but needs multiples to be reliable (Exorcist).

Yes, well, the exorcist makes up for this by being really frikin' good.



Inquisitor Lords are a terrible point sink, even for their Psychic hood, and are almost never taken. The assassins are generally overpriced w/o grenades and require an Inquisitor which further inflates their cost.

So don't take Inquisitor Lords or Assassins. Problem solved.



The book has some of the worst acknowledge units in the game - Repentia and Penitent Engines while also sporting Arco Flagellants and over costed naked Priests as well.

Your point? Just because a codex has bad units doesn't mean it also has good ones.



Further, some units have lost their luster - seraphim I am looking at you although the changes to mech have been a general advantage to SoB who were usually mechanized before anyway.

Seraphim are amazing. Not everyone likes them, but I have never gone wrong with them. Even in games where they didn't perform up to their usual standards, they still do well. Unless you get really unlucky and die on your deepstrike or something.



That is not to say there are not good parts to the book. Even if you need more than one, Exorcists are awesome at blowing up transports, the Faith powers make for dynamic play with some really powerful combinations and a canonness can be a nightmare for an opponent.

Exactly.



For Mech Immolaters are good in spite of being overcosted and you can generate a large number of them to saturate the board, meltas are abundant and the lack of long range firepower in troops is partially compensated by Exorcists..

You're answering your own questions here:p.

[Calypso2ts]

It isnt 3 points per model is is the accumulation of a basic SoB squad that makes it tough. Ignoring the book, a 2x melta squad has an additional cost of 57 points per squad. This is piled into the weapons, superior etc (w/ a book). This makes them cost almost the same as a tactical in equivalent transport assuming a squad size of 10 except....

No Frags/kraks
No ATSKNF
No Combat Tactics
No Combat Squads
-1 WS/S/T/I

It is not failure in CC that hurts them, it is really T3, I am almost never in CC with my SoB but I recognize they are overpriced when you add options to make them effective. Their base cost is fine, but they need to have about 35 points shaved off per squad.

Seraphim are not bad - but at the cost in a Mech environment they struggle much more and cost twice as much as a standard SoB. They are also fodder for small arms and with their elevated jump poses are hard to hide.

Exorcists are good but as with any random vehicle there are key times when they really abandon you turn 1 when you need that killing power. Further, the swings in power level hurt a lot in comp scores because everyone remembers those 6 missiles eating their terminators...not the 1 missile that missed.

Regardless, this point is incidental to the fact that you almost need to spam to create the Immo list, you get killed in comped tournaments. Further, if we look at the total units in the book there are...

HQ - 4 - 2 useless (Priest, Inq Lord)
Elite - 5 - 4 useless (Assassins, Inq, Repentia, Arcos)
Troop - 2 - IST and SoB Good
Fast Attack - 2 - Dom and Seraph Good
Heavy - 5 - 2 useless (Orbital Strike, Penitent)

Of those, there are 8 of 18 that are completely useless. With Immo as HS and Palatine situational having usefulness.

[DarkLink]

Ignoring the book, a 2x melta squad has an additional cost of 57 points per squad.

I won't argue that they're a little overpriced. My point is, they're still good units.

And I'm not entirely sure where you got the 57pts thing from. Beyond the base Sister, I take a Veteran, C. Flamer or melta, and then either two meltas or a melta and H. Flamer. And, of course, the Book of St Lucius. That's 110 points for the models, then 49 points or upgrades.

Now, looking at equivalent SMs: 16pts per model equals 160pts for the squad. You'll notice that 10 points for the Sargent is built in to the cost there. Then 5 pts for a melta, and oh, wait, you can't get a second melta/flamer... 10 for a combi-weapon, you can't get the Book (you do get ATSKNF and stuff, though). So that's 160pts, plus 25 for the upgrades.

So those equivalent upgrades are 14-24pts more expensive for the Sisters, depending on what heavy weapon you give the Tacticals. And I'll note that I would take a second special weapon over a single heavy weapon any day. I also ignore the eviscerator/powerfist, as they cost the same anyways.

And then, of course, there's 15 more points for the Rhino. So we're looking at 29-39pts more than they probably should cost, roughly.

So, yes, SoB are a little overpriced. But I'd say you're exaggerating it. It's a bit of a problem, but they can still be competitive without it.



Seraphim are not bad - but at the cost in a Mech environment they struggle much more and cost twice as much as a standard SoB. They are also fodder for small arms and with their elevated jump poses are hard to hide.

They seem to work out for me really well. And even with the elevated poses, they're short enough to hide behind a Rhino without being exposed. And sure, the Seraphim usually die off over the course of the game, but while they do it they distract the heck out of my opponent.



Exorcists are good but as with any random vehicle there are key times when they really abandon you turn 1 when you need that killing power. Further, the swings in power level hurt a lot in comp scores because everyone remembers those 6 missiles eating their terminators...not the 1 missile that missed.

Regardless, this point is incidental to the fact that you almost need to spam to create the Immo list, you get killed in comped tournaments. Further, if we look at the total units in the book there are...

Yeah, well, comp is complete bull$#!t anyways. In fact, this is a good example of why right here, if it happens in real life. Why should Sisters get a bad comp score just because they took one of their few good units?

And while Exorcists are a slight gamble, even getting off only 2-3 str 8 ap 1 shots is pretty good. Bad luck can mess you up, but then again it can do that anywhere. You could very well roll a 6, then miss with all of those shots.



HQ - 4 - 2 useless (Priest, Inq Lord)
Elite - 5 - 4 useless (Assassins, Inq, Repentia, Arcos)
Troop - 2 - IST and SoB Good
Fast Attack - 2 - Dom and Seraph Good
Heavy - 5 - 2 useless (Orbital Strike, Penitent)

Of those, there are 8 of 18 that are completely useless. With Immo as HS and Palatine situational having usefulness.

I agree with your list, though I will say that the only thing ISTs are good for is cheap 5-man suicide squads/scoring units. For pretty much everything else the Sisters get the job done much better.

What we're left with is the following:

HQ - Cannoness (why bother with the Palantine?)
Elite- Celestians
Troops- SoB, IST
FA- Dominions, Seraphim
Heavy- Exorcists, Retributors, Immolators

Even from that limited list, you can put together a solid, competitive army. Yeah, it'll take more skill than a leafblower list, but you can still do well.

[Mobynick]

Guys thank you for your spirited debate. I love sisters and I'll definatly run them, it is more a question of when. If they are a mile away I'll start DE but so is everyone else I guess, which is why I asked. If they are 3-6 months away I'll wait...any longer than that then I'll collect something else till they arrive.

I think SOB vrs DE would be a very fluffy and gruesome battle. Darklink would you mind if I sent you a pm or two re tactics ect?

So last call best guess at time line...mid next year?

[Calypso2ts]

Everything I have read suggests SoB are probably a year out. The probably schedule seems to be GK next in Feb/March, Necrons and then SoB. Tau and BT are in the mix somewhere and SoB could swap with Necrons possibly as well.

I tend to agree on IST and Palatine being normally of little use but I have seen them as passengers in Immo spam lists.

I agree totally on the Exorcists, I find them to be pretty balanced over the course of a game, possibly a bit over priced but generally strong without being overwhelming. They are certainly no worse than many of the guard artillery choices. The issue I am looking at now, going to Da Boyz with a pure SoB list is how to not get crushed in comp. You can make a solid army out of those choices above, but it looks pretty spammy to the judges. Maybe I will just take 3x Exorcist and comp be damned!

[DarkLink]

Yeah, with the Palantine, there's really no excuse not to pay 10 points and get the Cannoness. It's worth it even just for the Faith Point, not to mention all the other stat bonuses.

I mainly use Sisters as a big allied component in my Grey Knights, but I've found that 5 ISTs in a Rhino with two melta is a decent unit. It's cheap enough that the enemy will ignore it most of the time, it can kill a vehicle, and if you have to leave it on an objective, well, again its a cheap unit.

In fact, at 'ard Boys the ISTs were the only units that survived in every game for me, I believe

[artemi]

If comp is doing it's job correctly, it should not be punishing the Sisters for taking their only viable options. It will, however, which is why it's BS.

Honestly, I keep forgetting the Sisters are a 3 Ed codex. It certainly plays better then the other 3 Ed ones. I play Sisters, but frankly, I want GKs and Necrons first. They really, really need new books, and I feel sorry for their players...

Also, a Psychic Hood Inquisitor Lord with 3 Melta guardsmen hiding inside a Heavy Support Immolator isn't a bad way to go. I like Purgatus, too, but it's rather situational.

[Melissia]

You are a brave person to even ask that question.
Indeed, there's some worthless trash that would flame you just for showing some interest in the army.