If I wrote BOLS Articles on DE:

[w7west]

So the current craze that BOLS wants all of you potential dark eldar players chatting about is building an army centered around pain tokens. I guess I just have a different perspective since I have played with dark eldar enough to second guess any strategy focusing around "survivability". Sure feel no pain is great, but come on this is dark eldar we don't make saves, we kill things.

"No wai bro, warhammar is all abotu gettin the GG saves man"
- Nay, dark eldar will brutally punish any of you thinking this is the way to go. When our stuff gets shot at, it dies, that's it, game over, nothing to see here.

So you have this army, it has lots of killy stuff and is just great at 12 inches and in close combat. The problem is, in the process of getting all of your stuff into this deadly range, a lot of it is going to die relatively easy. Yes you can build your force around giving everything pain tokens and then they will be able to make a few saves.

But what if you had the ability to skip the whole getting shot at thing all together? Say, for instance, there was some sort of portal that let you teleport all of your guys right into their most effective range? Well, this seems like it would be just dandy, but how would we get the portal close in the first place?

hmm... if only there was a unit that could start the game real close, be able to carry a portal, have a great cover save so they can get shot at, and to top it off give them some sort of pinning weapon to keep enemies from getting too close...

OWAIT ITS THE MANDRAKES!

yes folks, clear your elite slots, its the mandrakes. These boys will laugh at your opponents 25 missile launcher list.

"we gonna blow up any raider lol cuz 25 missile launcher"
-um no raiders bro, all my stuffs already killin u.

Also, once the portal has been deployed, nothing is stopping you from being all about the pain token generation, if that is your thing. You can have talos and other beasties runnin through it to really bring the pain. Not to mention, your model count just went through the roof when you no longer need to invest in a 65 point transport for all of your squads.

So its just somthing to think about. I for one will be playing a webway list with two mandrake squads slappin portals right in my opponents face and then pouring more rediculous cc squads than he has ever seen all over his 25 missile launchers.

[BuFFo]

Mandrake units cannot carry Web Way Portals.

[Herald of Nurgle]

This being why I endorse adding a Haemonculus to a unit of 10 Mandrakes, and then add them to another guys raider. Yay Balefire immediately!

[DrLove42]

In the immortal words of the internet...

FAIL!

Yes the webway in the mddle of their lines is a nice idea...maybe slap a budget Hemo in a venom, deepstrike and deploy, but that might not be possible with the rules as i can't remember them.

Besides relying on everything coming out of a webway puts you very dependant on reserves rolls. Ask any deamons player...the reserves rolls can ruin the best battle plan. What are you going to do if nothing turns up from reserve untl turn 4? Or turns up one raider at a time right in front of their army?

[BuFFo]

In the immortal words of the internet...

FAIL!

Yes the webway in the mddle of their lines is a nice idea...maybe slap a budget Hemo in a venom, deepstrike and deploy, but that might not be possible with the rules as i can't remember them.

Besides relying on everything coming out of a webway puts you very dependant on reserves rolls. Ask any deamons player...the reserves rolls can ruin the best battle plan. What are you going to do if nothing turns up from reserve untl turn 4? Or turns up one raider at a time right in front of their army?

You cannot compare a Demon army to a Dark Eldar army, because the Reserve Rolls play a different role here.

In 4th edition, Web Way portal Armies worked like this...

You delayed deploying your WWP as long as possible. This would allow your Reserve Rolls to build up. When you deployed your WWP, all your Reserves pop out automatically.

DE players tried to delay their army as much as possible, so it all comes out at once.

I do not know how to WWP functions in the new codex, but if it functions like the previous one did, the same tactic still stands.

Turn 1 nothing

Turn 2 roll for Reserves. UNits that make their roll cannot be deployed as the WWP is not deployed yet.

Turn 3 same thing. Deploy your WWP.

Turn 4 most, if not all, of your army appears.

Is this a viable tactic in 5th edition? With the current DE, no, but now that WWPs are cheaper, and you can have a BUTT ton of them, and in units with FNP to boot, this may be a viable tactic yet again.

[Darkwynn]

works different Buffo. Webway portal you will want to get down as fast as you can. It states that you must declare which way your units are going to come on the board with by either outflank, deep strike or reserve. If you have a webway portal setup you can use the webway portal instead of the other method of deployment that you have claimed.


So basically if you don't get your webway portal down first turn you could be in a serious crunch or issue from bad deployment.


First turn is going to be move 12 inches and drop webway portal the best way you can.

[BuFFo]

works different Buffo. Webway portal you will want to get down as fast as you can. It states that you must declare which way your units are going to come on the board with by either outflank, deep strike or reserve. If you have a webway portal setup you can use the webway portal instead of the other method of deployment that you have claimed.


So basically if you don't get your webway portal down first turn you could be in a serious crunch or issue from bad deployment.


First turn is going to be move 12 inches and drop webway portal the best way you can.

Ah, cool. :)

It will be one of the many aspects of the book I will be testing in my games.

[Mal]

Just a quick question... once you drop a WWP does it become independant of the character who dropped it? and can it be destroyed or is it removed when the character dies like other wargear?

I've never really bothered with WWP before myself as I always saw them as a good way to bring a grotesk army into the field and i've never really likes the grots.

[w7west]

Mandrake units cannot carry Web Way Portals.

If this is so I have a bone to pick with a certain friend. He has access to the codex and assured me multiple times after I directly asked "can mandrakes take portals" that "yes mandrakes can take portals stop asking"

Oh well, It would have been a lot of fun and given the new mandrakes a purpose.

edit: we are, of course, talking about the *new* codex. I am blatantly aware of the lack of upgrades for my current mandrakes.

edit #2: So I have invested far too much time into thinking about how to use portals to completely avoid the proliferation of mech / antimech spam. What units / characters are able to carry portals? From the various rules I have read it seems portals are being changed so that if you do not deploy them turn one, you are asking for trouble as units that cannot enter will get destroyed. If this is the case, and mandrakes cannot take portals, I will probably admit defeat. Good duel missile launcher.

Another alternative could be haemonculi with some wracks (racks? rly gw just let me buy the codex) advancing in raider turn 1, and then dropping portals. I do not like this version quite so much, and it is reliant on being able to deploy portals on the same turn that you move (can't do that in old dex). Anyway, I guess letting my opponent blow up 2 raiders is not so bad, although the mandrake version seemed a lot better when I still thought mandrakes got portals :c

[Mal]

i've just flicked through the book and the nly ones with the option that I can see are the archon and the haemonculus (normal and ancient)

[w7west]

Also, are there any units with scout? I would hate to think we get yet another version of the codex that gives us no quick way of getting a portal in forward position.

[w7west]

i've just flicked through the book and the nly ones with the option that I can see are the archon and the haemonculus (normal and ancient)

Hmm, that is very disappointing indeed. It seems the only way GW wants us to use our portals is to have warp beasts come out of it, since it will be too far back for anything else on foot to get into range.

"hai my 25 missile launcher still gon blow u up!"
- yes, yes they will.

[Bigred]

Once the webway portal is down, it is represented by a 3" round template (or the fancy tin hemisphere GW will sell you ie, the apocalypse vortex marker). The marker is placed touching the model who deployed it and is for the rest of the game considered to be:

a) Part of your board edge for purposes of units arriving from reserve
b) Impassble terrain (so the bad guy can't park a Land Raider on it)

[w7west]

Once the webway portal is down, it is represented by a 3" round template (or the fancy tin hemisphere GW will sell you ie, the apocalypse vortex marker). The marker is placed touching the model who deployed it and is for the rest of the game considered to be:

a) Part of your board edge for purposes of units arriving from reserve
b) Impassble terrain (so the bad guy can't park a Land Raider on it)

Now can this be deployed after moving? Or is it still no move no shoot to lay it down?

[Mal]

3" round hmm... im pretty sure this would work as a nice WWP marker then ;)

http://www.azaleanempire.co.uk/content/galleries/fantasyterrain.htm

[Duke]

If you did a few small changes to the base I think that could be a great warp portal... For some crafty people with a sense of humor, thinkgeek.com sells a stargate sg-1 gate drink coaster, lol

Duke

[BuFFo]

Now can this be deployed after moving? Or is it still no move no shoot to lay it down?

The WWP can be deployed after moving :P

[Silver Drakes Legion]

The stargate rings as webway portals a funny idea...

I think it says it is put down in the shooting phase for the model.

Now can we disembark if we move flat out since we are open topped right?

[Mal]

I did look at picking up a resin stargate, but its easily 5" across at the base.

[Darkwynn]

in the codex it says use a small blast template

[w7west]

This is significantly better than current webway portals which required the model carrying it to neither move nor shoot in the turn it is deployed.

It would be great to get some kind of in depth look at how the portals work in the current codex.. seems surprising nobody has laid down the ground rules on this thing yet since it is such a rules beast.

Things I am interested in knowing:

Can it be deployed from a transport?
Can it be taken by anything other than HQ?
Exactly what can come out of it?
Points range for new webway? (in firewarrior equiv)
and most importantly, confirmation that yes, that squad that moved 12 inches and disembarked CAN place the webway portal on the same turn.

[Cruor Vault]

Can it be deployed from a transport?

No.



Can it be taken by anything other than HQ?

No



Exactly what can come out of it?

Anything that is held in reserve for any reason barring vehicles.



Points range for new webway? (in firewarrior equiv)

More than three Fire Warriors, but less than 3 Pathfinders.



and most importantly, confirmation that yes, that squad that moved 12 inches and disembarked CAN place the webway portal on the same turn.

Yes


The problem with the new portal is that no matter how you place it, your forces are still coming on piecemeal. There are no bonuses to reserves in the ENTIRE book, and no way to delay reserves like there used to be. Meaning that you have got to rely on a pretty ****ty chance to get what you want when you want it.

[Mal]

While im never fond of relying on reserve rolls (had them fail too many times in the past), having a flank deployment bubble in the middle of your opponents deployment zone means any units comming on from there can assault pretty much anything they choose in your opponents lines and get locked in combat so they don't get shot to death, also the 4+ for turn 2 and 3+ for turn 3 to come on from reserve isn't all that bad (not ideal, but not bad).

[DarkLink]

Anything that is held in reserve for any reason barring vehicles.


Do you have to specify beforehand that X unit will be using the portal, or can you just pick and choose between the board edge and the portal on the fly?


While im never fond of relying on reserve rolls

I've found I have pretty good luck, having started playing Eldar. While I don't always get exactly what I want when I want, even without an Autarch I've never been desparate for something to come in/stay out only to roll the wrong thing. It might come in a turn early or late, but dealing with that isn't usually too big a deal.

[Mal]

You do not have to declare how units are comming in from reserve until you make a successful reserve roll.

So its your choice.

The problem arrises when you have units in reserve that cannot enter the field through any other method than the portal and the portal carrier gets wasted before you get a chance to drop it.... that would suck... its also why im going to spend the extra 85 points to ensure i've got a spare carrier... (basic haemoculus with WWP = 85pts).

[Ghoulio]

You do not have to declare how units are comming in from reserve until you make a successful reserve roll.

So its your choice.

The problem arrises when you have units in reserve that cannot enter the field through any other method than the portal and the portal carrier gets wasted before you get a chance to drop it.... that would suck... its also why im going to spend the extra 85 points to ensure i've got a spare carrier... (basic haemoculus with WWP = 85pts).

I dont see when this is actually going to happen since everything that comes through the portal just enters in how it normally would (so if you deep strike your scourges and have a WWP you can choose which one you want to use). So, if the carrier dies you just do what you were going to do anyways.

The way I am going to deploy the web way portal is using a haemonclus or an Archon in a Harlequin squad (probably with a death jester for a bit of anti Rhino/land speeder fire). That way people have to be within 24" just to shoot at the squad (but probably closer to 14" to reliably shoot it). I am also thinking that everything that comes out of it will be fast in some way. So Hellions, Jet bikes and Warp Beasts. I think it could be a really fun way to play the army and help break up the monotony of Raider spam :)

[Mal]

How about your wyches? or Grotesks? or any other unit you want t3o arrive through the portal that doesn't have another means of entering from reserve?

[Ghoulio]

Every unit in the codex has other means of entering the board. If the person holding the portal dies, or the portal is surrounded so you can't exit it, the unit in question (ie the 3 you listed) just walks on from your own board edge. All the 5th ed portal does is give you another board edge that you can use to bring your models on the board (at least that's how you treat it). It basically just gives every non vehicle unit 2 options for entering the game. The original option they have (basic troops coming in on your board edge, outflankers can outflank and things with jump packs can deep strike). That is the nice thing about this editions portal, the units coming out can never be "lost" :)

[Mal]

Ahh yes, my bad, i've found the section int eh rules you are refering to...

Still its not a good thing because you've then lost at least 1 turn of movement for the troops arriving.

[Ghoulio]

Yeah, for sure, it would very much blow having to run your wyches/grotesques on from your own table edge (I bet in a lot of instances that might just take them out of the game). That is one of the main reasons why I am only putting fast moving units in my portal. That way if something screws up, or heck, even just goes right I will have tactical flexibility. I like the idea of placing the portal 6" out of my own table edge (so most games will be 18" in. That basically gives my hellions and beast packs an entire extra move and since both of them have a min charge range of 19" it means they should be in hand to hand the turn they come in.

[Coffeemugg]

Just think how nasty a WWP could be in a Dawn Of War mission.

[Mal]

im still thinking about running a raider out there with a haemo and putting the WWP smack dab in the center of the board, plenty of options from there....

I really cba to look up the rule right now, so does anyone remember the max distance you can come in from the portal (or board edge) when comming in from reserve? I keep thinking 6" but im not sure.

[DarkLink]

I really cba to look up the rule right now, so does anyone remember the max distance you can come in from the portal (or board edge) when comming in from reserve? I keep thinking 6" but im not sure.

Coming on from reserves is just any old normal move, starting just off the table/webway portal. So you can move 6, or 12, or 24, or 36, or whatever the heck you feel like, so long as the unit can move that far.

[Mal]

Thanks for clearing that up.

That neans that any foot based unit (non jump infantry) has an effective kill range of 13" from the WWP, thats sufficent to get a couple of inches behind enemy deployment from a centrally placed WWP.
That should be sufficent to get my troops in quickly, I suppose if I need it closer, I can always run the haemo then drop the WWP.

Im in the process of hammering out a new list that only has a single vehicle in it... I figure most poeple will gear their lists to killing massed raiders since thats a very popular choice, so having to deal with 80+ fast moving infantry will be interesting...

[w7west]

Thanks for clearing that up.

That neans that any foot based unit (non jump infantry) has an effective kill range of 13" from the WWP, thats sufficent to get a couple of inches behind enemy deployment from a centrally placed WWP.
That should be sufficent to get my troops in quickly, I suppose if I need it closer, I can always run the haemo then drop the WWP.

Im in the process of hammering out a new list that only has a single vehicle in it... I figure most poeple will gear their lists to killing massed raiders since thats a very popular choice, so having to deal with 80+ fast moving infantry will be interesting...

This is exactly what I am trying to go for with the new dark eldar. Raiders were great in our old codex because of the efficiency in which you could take them, and generally the squads inside could burn in the wreckage and you wouldn't lose too many points so it was all good.
That style of play seems to be out the window, we are now somewhat of an elite army with very few squads we can just throw away.

Another change is to blasters. 12" range for old blasters, 18" for new. This is a very large buff to infantry anti tank. Why pay extra for a raider with one dark lance when a squad of trueborn can just hop out of a portal and have all of their lances in range?

There are several units that will be able to preform very well without the aide of transports when jumping out of portals. Beastmaster packs look incredible. Coming out of a well placed portal they should be able to jump right into combat and really pack a punch.

And of course by not needing to waste 600 or so points on transports you can really bring a lot of killing power. I am talking about the kind of death and destruction that actually requires LOL IM PARKED IN CHIMERA to consider moving in the movement phase.

Trueborn with blasters, scourges with heatlances, beastmasters with ~20 models per squad, multiple talos, and a sea of wyches are going to lol all over lists that focus on armor/popping armor.

[BuFFo]

Raider usage is not dead, by far. As a matter of fact, with the WWP being weaker than it was before, Raider usage is stronger.

In 5th, next to no one used the good version of the WWP. What makes you think people will use the crappier version?

Raiders are better than ever with the new upgrades. By far.

[w7west]

Raider usage is not dead, by far. As a matter of fact, with the WWP being weaker than it was before, Raider usage is stronger.

In 5th, next to no one used the good version of the WWP. What makes you think people will use the crappier version?

Raiders are better than ever with the new upgrades. By far.

new wwb has huge usability boost in terms of deployment. Being able to move and then lay down the portal means you can move that raider up, jump out in front, and lay a webway all without needed to be blasted to **** by a turn of free shooting.

[Mal]

I'll have to agree with that, its the deployment of the WWP that always put me off of it before... having to waste a whole turn just to drop the sodding thing was a serious pain, now I can drop it on the run, it makes it much less risky to run one out in a raider with a token squad (so soak up any wounds your unlucky enough to suffer) and drop it by your opponents deployment zone, then laugh at the look of pure horror on his face as they scramble to move away, if nothing else its a brilliant disruption tactic, even if you don't use it.

This is not to say the raider is down and out, if anything its an even stronger choice than before, but thats the whole reason why i trying to work out good ways to run lists without them, people will adjust to dealing with raiders faster than WWP's.