Has BoLS 'Jumped the Shark'?

[Denzark]

A few days ago, in yet another post on the main blog about gamer hygiene, somebody expressed the opinion that 'this was when BoLS' jumped the shark'. So I pops onto urbandictionary.com, and it tells me this is a reference to The Fonz from Happy Days literally jumped a shark, and it was seen as the point from which the series went bad, and has since been adopted as an expression of when something starts to degrade. (I always thought Happy Days was the worst sort of mawkish schmalzy caca anyway, but I digress).

This has got me thinking - has BoLS started to go down hill?

Personally I arrived at BoLS looking for rules for big b*stard sized warmachines, having had a proclivity for purchasing old Armorcast titans. The rules were excellent, and balanced. The play aids were awesome, hugley well put together, particularly the campaigns. It seemed every 5 minutes we would have new transfers for obscure chapters or craftworlds. OK, Goatboy surely did for list spam what Dr Alan Comfort did for the sex lives of our parents in the 80s, but hey, he was a world class painter.

Fast forward a few months or so. Can't think of the last campaign, or new rules. Or transfers. The standard of posts on the main blog is under scrutiny - I don't think it would be unfair to say 1 in 2 has complaints about editing or lack thereof. And I only read 40K posts! Other issues beyond editorial, is some 'guest' posters seeming to take an entire post, to posit a 1-liner opinion or theory - why use 10 words when 500 will do?

Whilst I don't think either the main pages have descended into the immaturity of some of the other forums (and all their problems therein), I think there is danger of the butter being spread a bit too thin - a la Afghanistan 'mission creep'.

I put this down to 2 things. Firstly other game systems, and the amount of coverage of them. Bell of Lost Souls is clearly a 40K reference - the site was never called 'Honest Joe's Used Warjacks' or 'Sigmar's hairy teste sack'. Diversity is great, but you run the risk of being a jack of all trades and a chapter master of none.

Secondly, trying to keep up with news and rumours. GW seems to now keep us hooked with new plastic crack, similar to how I imagine a gang of human traffickers keeps its sex slaves in line with heroin. Trickled rumours, glimpses in the backs of rule book photos or 'leaks' from Nottingham, all get discussed, extrapolated, mulled over and ruminated on in the most excrutiating detail on BoLS. And the tempo of operations is set to 'maxi-grimdark warfare paced.'

Whilst contemplating repeatedly the mysterious individual known as Meta Game. Who is he, what does he look like, why is he carrying the sword of Lion El'Jonson, and how can he eat that many Krispy Kreme goodies in one sitting? Even M. le Goat of Goat Hall has seemingly become a voice of reason.

I stick this in the 40K lounge because, as a recent poster stated, BoLS is one of the biggest influences on the 40K community and merits, I feel, discussion in '40K general'. Should a Mod disagree please feel free to move.

Btw this isn't a slag session, I appreciate the work goes into this site on our collective behalfs and am hughely thankful for what I have already taken out of it - but if you can only polish a turd so much I would be interested to see if others have thoughts along this line.

[BuFFo]

BoLs jumped the shark when they got Goatboy.

Week after week of power list after boring Warseer inspired power lists by Goatboy is what did it.

Then everyone just started to make power lists. Then go to tournaments with said power lists, and BoLs became this clone of every other forum, with an obsession behind WINNING and not having fun.

Soon BoLs was about boring battle reports between the same 4 armies, the same authors repeating the same boring spam lists with no imagination, and a complete lack of any house rules anymore.

It was inevitable, though. They wanted higher readership, and this was the way to go. Face it, people online don't care about the old BoLs style of hobby centric articles. They want to know how to win, not have fun, and BoLs just changed with the times.

Am I being harsh? nah, not really. I just use the internets for hobby centric articles, such as painting, how to make terrain, etc... So in the end, I don't really care what BoLs does, as it is their business. If they want to make few bucks off of ad revenue, more power to them.

[Melissia]

Do people really want "fun" lists? I posted some of my Ork lists intended for fun with a bit of competitiveness in them just to keep up the fun (because presenting absolutely no opposition to enemy lists isn't fun to me), and a lot of people just *****ed and moaned instead. Do people really want house rules? Every time they're posted people ***** and moan about those. Do people really want painting sections? Very few people actually respond to those compared to the "power list" posts.

There's no shark. There's just BoLS trying to provide what its readers appear to want.

[fuzzbuket]

if its what readers want? i sy we find everyone who complains about new codexes they havent seen and those who make up army lists with vauge rumors and stick them on the black ships ! *evil laughter*

ye its gone down hill but the loung is still okay


and lets face it


were not as bad as dakka (:P yay for speaking in full english/engrish ^_^ not silly acronyms about toilet roll titans :P).


final words:

its not as big as warseer and less silly 7yr olds than dakka its the B-O-L-S ^__^

[Denzark]

Do people really want "fun" lists? I posted some of my Ork lists intended for fun with a bit of competitiveness in them just to keep up the fun (because presenting absolutely no opposition to enemy lists isn't fun to me), and a lot of people just *****ed and moaned instead. Do people really want house rules? Every time they're posted people ***** and moan about those. Do people really want painting sections? Very few people actually respond to those compared to the "power list" posts.

There's no shark. There's just BoLS trying to provide what its readers appear to want.

This analysis is a bit shallow - no disrespect. The old campaigns, Genstealer cults etc, had comments about who had playtested them - it had the feeling of group consensus the 'House rules' were fair. As against to single source uncorroborated house rule design - by an individual if you like, rather than 'corporately' issued by BoLS.

Obviously a painting article will raise less comment than a power-gaming idea (haha theslingshot etc) as its less contentious.

As to BoLS trying to provide what its readers want, the single most common comment as to this is increased editing to rub out poor spelling, shoddy English and posts that could be expressed in one line.

So I'm not quite sure they're just 'going with the flow.'

[Melissia]

Maybe my lazy interpretation of events is shallow.

But then so are vastly overwhelming number of blog posters.

[Denzark]

true, true - clearly if you are using teh interwebz the need for manners, decorum, socially responsible and humble comments, is oot the windee (as they say in the land of the porridge noshers.)

[Pendragon38]

I think you guys & gals left out that it may have rubbed someone the wrong way and they got there MAN-GINAE hurt so they started to whine to BOLS

[BuFFo]

I only stopped writing Dark Eldar articles because the new book was coming out, so I didn't know what was going to change. And I didn't want to jump the shark on the Dark Eldar, much like all these Hellion lists are attempting to do.

I still won't write any articles on the Dark Eldar until I have played a bunch of games FIRST. That's because I care about the quality of my words, my thoughts and my articles. It would be a disservice to the readers to write an article about something I don't have experience with yet.

I don't feel the need to see my words in 'print' every other day.

[eldargal]

I have zero interest in competitive lists and tournaments and all that sort of thing and I can't say I have a problem with BolS articles. Though it would be nice to see more hobby articles.

[Tirion]

I'm fairly new here, so I can't really comment on how this site was in the past. Being a tabletop gamer of 8years though I do have some insite. This is really a discussion of differing styles that has become more and more noticable. On one hand you have the hobbyist that are in it for the hobby and everyhting that entails, and 9 times out of 10 they are building a themed list not a power list. On the other hand (and in my opinion this is becoming more widespread) there are power gamers that are only in it to win everygames throwing cheesyness to the wind. There really is rarely a middle ground. I'm not saying that hobbyist don't build competative list just casue they do, but power gamers are a whole different breed. I swear this is how it all came about................

Abel and his brother Cain had invented a new way to pass the time using different rocks they gave them values based on they're weight and played "games" with them. While Abels rocks wher always neatly organized and always the same color, Cain simply went for the biggest rocks he could find, didn't matter if it was ugly, or even a bone, that didn't really have any business in the game.


True story........ thats how this all started.

But seriously I think this just comes down to a shift in the majority between these to types of gamers.

[DrLove42]

I have never used a BoLs list or watched a battle report
I think the new "tactics" articles are mostly the worst kind of rule manipulation power gaming
I think the diversity isn't bad, doing a bit of Fantasy now means i appreciate the articles a bit more, but the warmachine stuff is pointless. Look at its section on the forum...the Warmachine and FoW bit are dead.
The hobby articles are good, so i use BoLs as a gateway to all its linked blogs in the bottom right...peoples own blogs with their interpreations, painting tips are they way to go
Oh yeah and the "meta game" affect the small universe of the writers, out where ever they are. Its not representitive of the global community and is still shoved down our throats

Personally i read 1-2 articles off the front page a week. And get the real stuff in here

[Denzark]

Think maybe DrLove represents not only a balanced view but probably a silent majority.

[Kahoolin]

I've read BoLS most days for about two years I reckon, and now that you mention it I think they might have jumped the shark. Sad to say, and I hadn't really noticed till you pointed it out, but the hobby stuff they used to make does seem to have taken a back seat.

Luckily there's a simple solution to this for the BoLS team:

DON'T READ THE COMMENTS.

I'm serious. Don't try to give the people what they want, because they all want something different and some (OK most) of them are contrary *******s who'll complain no matter what you do. Write what you want, and act like the comments section doesn't exist. After all, you attracted all these readers by doing what you wanted and just pasting it up on the net, not pretending to be a business and giving your "customers" what they claim they want.

[crazyredpraetorian]

I have never used a BoLs list or watched a battle report
I think the new "tactics" articles are mostly the worst kind of rule manipulation power gaming
I think the diversity isn't bad, doing a bit of Fantasy now means i appreciate the articles a bit more, but the warmachine stuff is pointless. Look at its section on the forum...the Warmachine and FoW bit are dead.
The hobby articles are good, so i use BoLs as a gateway to all its linked blogs in the bottom right...peoples own blogs with their interpreations, painting tips are they way to go
Oh yeah and the "meta game" affect the small universe of the writers, out where ever they are. Its not representitive of the global community and is still shoved down our throats

Personally i read 1-2 articles off the front page a week. And get the real stuff in here

In defense of the Warmachine and FOW content(I play neither system btw), there is a strong following for both systems. Their lack of forum participation may just mean that the players of those systems don't want to devote their time to a forum. I know many people that refuse to go to forums/message boards but spend quite a bit of time on blogs.

[Pendragon38]

I agree, I joined only for the lounge and the rules of old models and your guys/gals input on good the bad and the ugly stuff that is talked about on the lounge

[DarkLink]

I think the diversity isn't bad, doing a bit of Fantasy now means i appreciate the articles a bit more, but the warmachine stuff is pointless. Look at its section on the forum...the Warmachine and FoW bit are dead.

The only reason I don't post in the warmachine section (which I just started playing), is because there isn't much participation. I'm pretty sure it's the same for a whole lot of other warmachine players. That section of the forum just hasn't reached critical mass to build up that big of a community.

Besides, it isn't "diversity" to only talk about 40k, then toss out a fantasy article on occasion.

[DrLove42]

Don't misconstrue me, I apoligise f its come out that way. I have no problem with alternate systems. But they seem to be in the "headlines" as often, as the 40K articles. And with respect, they aren't as well spread (i've never heard of either system till i came on here) and BoLS was originally about the 40K

I seem to recall a little while ago there being a "Vote for content direction" poll. I seem to recall "painting articles", "tactics" and "fluff" coming top. And they seem to have ignored that!

[rbryce]

i wouldnt say its that bad, but on the other hand i see oppertunities wasted. by this i mean filling the gaps that GW (or other mini/game companies) doesnt. i know its popular on the net to make radical statements such as "50% of ALL gamers play SM" or some such, and that BoLS as a conglomerate of sorts wants to tap in on some of the popular ideas, for whatever reason, but i do feel that the silent (or not in some cases) majority would love to see the marginalised forces/gaming aspects etc. explored in more detail. it seems to me as though in the articles that get less whining are those marginalised subjects. as an example use the 40K lore articles, they get a very positive response from the community (the Farsight article, ordos of the inquisition and so on), and are about the less represented forces and whatnot. the old minidexs, in all their glory, tended to be about forces that GW(Bush... couldnt help myself) does not support in the way they do other stuff(SoB strike force, Adeptus arbites). to me, this is why i started reading BoLS, as they filled the gaps left over from the corporate machine, and did a good job of it too(i will get drop pod minis for my sisters one day). i think the Batreps, whilst a good idea(video), tend not to show what people would want to watch. you dont watch LoTR for the WAAC attitude of sauron, but the storytelling of the world in which it is set. wouldnt it be cool to see the minigame version? such as a video campaign series? telling the story of some far flung world in the grip of war? as opposed to "were at the bottom of the 4th, and hes been tabled"(ill never understand the bottom and top of turns phrasology, and i love baseball). the seeds are there, turning into sprouts, but we as a community need to feed and water it so it can be a strong sunflower one day(lol).

anyway, it hasnt jumped the shak, but the horse hasnt left the stalls, but the rider is halfway down the bak straight.

(sorry for big block of text, but its hard on the wii to see more than 2 lines of text).

[Duke]

I don't think that BoLS has jumped the shark, but I do agree that the nature of it has changed. I have been following bols for a long time now and I can say teat it was really cool when they did the macharian crusade and badab war campaigns, as well as the titans expansion.

Remember though, that we are still sealing with GW who hates anyone who does anything that has to do with their hobby... Homegrown rules/campaigns and all.

The funniest part about all of this is I remember when BoLS was young and people would ask for more "competitive" lists and such. I remember that when any article was written about WHFB it was seen as the Infamous red-headed step-child of the blog. People got all pissed when anything but 40k was put up... Long story short, just like all things BoLS has changed a little bit over the years, some changes are from pressure of outside sources and some are from internal readership/writers.

I do think though, that the recent article on traveling tips is a great step in the awesome direction! Wink wink!

Duke

[JxKxR]

In all honesty I thought BoLS 'Jumped the Shark' a long time ago when a pretty girl was spotted playing warhammer. It made the game seem sooo much nerdier and really I don't think it is. I do hate the goatboy garbage and refuse to even read what he has to say. I also hate the new tactics that have been popping up on the home page. You can tank shock guys into assault range REALLY! I never would have known. Complete crap. It seems to me that the main page is for the power gamers and the lounge is for everyone else. I do appreciate real tactics this site and its community have really helped me when I first started 40k with Tau and now instead of getting destroyed I’m at least competitive. And I do love the painting tips and terrain help, have you seen the alien jungle made of fake flowers AWESOME!!! It's just rare that I have anything to say to add to the conversation other than that looks great, thanks for the tip, and that’s why I think people don't think anyone’s really paying attention to them but we are. Yeah BoLS has problems but I’m stuck at work away from my plastic crack and until I can get back to it the lounge keeps me subdued.

[deadmanwade]

When I first started using this site, it was for the home made content and mini-dexes. My friends and I used some of them and had a good time. I check the site nearly every day and maybe read one or two of the articles. Sometimes they're good, sometimes not. I usually skip over the unit-of-the-day spam lists. Essentially all of the army lists that get posted up are "I think unit A is good and unit B isnt. Therefore I filled my points entirely with unit A"
The rumours are often found on Warseer a lot earlier, but BoLS does a good job of condensing them down to a readable level so I dont have to wade through 200 pages to find the one nugget of info.
The tactics articles that are being put up may be good for WAAC players, but they're the kind of thing I would frown upon doing deliberately.

Basically it boils down to what do the BoLS guys want to write? since they are the ones writing it. Personally I'd like to see more fun, home made articles again and less of the WINWINWIN stuff.

I'd also like to hear what the BoLS guys have to say for themselves about this thread. :D

As for the "Do gamers smell" article that kicked this off. Yes, some gamers do smell. Having played at a FLGS where there was no air conditioning, 35 degrees C and high humidity, every one was a bit stinky. Do we need an article about it? Maybe not. Some people have good hygiene, some dont and a post on the internet isnt going to make a difference.

[Melissia]

In defense of the Warmachine and FOW content(I play neither system btw), there is a strong following for both systems. Their lack of forum participation may just mean that the players of those systems don't want to devote their time to a forum. I know many people that refuse to go to forums/message boards but spend quite a bit of time on blogs.

Which is unfortunate, because blogs are like dick and piss sandwiches using stale bread. It might be edible, but that doesn't mean they're healthy or tasty.

[L192837465]

-Annoying amount of run-on.

(sorry for big block of text, but its hard on the wii to see more than 2 lines of text).

As soon as you said you were posting this on a Wii, I lost all value of your post.

I just wish they'd post a bit more hobby related stuff. That's it. All the crap they post now is great, but alternate rules, new conversions (other than the showcase) blah blah blah.

[Gotthammer]

Remember though, that we are still sealing with GW who hates anyone who does anything that has to do with their hobby... Homegrown rules/campaigns and all.


"Rules

We encourage fellow hobbyists to invent rules that work for them. There is no need to stick precisely to the published rules. However, if you are thinking about making your own Codex for your Space Marine chapter (in addition to following the other guidelines in this policy), please avoid making it look official as this may confuse gamers and amount to a challenge to our trademarks."

That's from the GW legal page (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=&pageMode=multi&categoryId=&section=&pIndex=3&aId=3900002&start=4). Hardly says they hate homegrown rules or anything like that.



Mostly I think some proper editing and more thought into what's posted (do we really need more than one, or even one, stinky gamer article a year?) to reduce the number of one paragraph statements-of-the-bleeding-obvious 'articles' (tank shock to move guys into assault range? Well, duh.). Spam list postings don't bother me, I just don't read them or skim them.

The recent blending article was really good - more like that would be appreciated.

[AirHorse]

I think bols is fine, despite it changing since I started coming here.

Infact it has only changed to accomodate more varieties of taste within the hobby so I find the whining about how bols only accomodates power gaming etc a little nonsensical. Perhaps there are more "power lists" or tactics articles now than hobby articles, but I feel this is merely a representation of how many people prefer that kind of article.

I enjoy reading almost all of the articles that get put up(even the ones for gaming systems I dont actually play) and there are very few that I would qualify under the "waste of space" section, and even then just because I didnt find it particularily interesting doesnt mean that others didnt.

As to everyone complaints about quality of writing, I can agree that its not perfect or anything, but it rarely causes me to actually care that its not perfect.

[DarkLink]

Hardly says they hate homegrown rules or anything like that.


Actions speak much louder than words.

[Duke]

Actions speak much louder than words.

Exactley... What their legal department says is not what they have done.

Duke

[Bigred]

Just my 2 cents as someone who may have some insider knowledge on this issue :)

I too remember the heady days of 2007-8 with the minidexes, campaign books and decals. It was a huge amount of fun and hard work to put those things together, but as some others have said, we have slwly adapted and shifted coverage as we have grown. For those who still want them all that stuff is still availableonthe Fly Lords of Terra club webpage (google it).

If someone had told me 4 years ago that my little personal blog covering my crazy campaign ideas and my Death Guard army would have over 30 contributors, and publish 5 times a day 365, I would have said you were crazy. But somehow it happened.

Yes 40k is and always will be our bread and butter, but its has been great fun to meet new comapanies and friends along the way and see the coverage broaden to cover a lot of the other big gaming systems. I would be remiss if I didn't say that I for one and very happy to see outfits like Privateer and Battlefront knocking out grade A game systems recently such as Warmachine/Hordes MkII. I always think that multiple strong competitors are a net plus for the wargames market and we are always happy to give any major system coverage and exposure to our readers.

Content wise, we are definately led by what the readers respond to, and believe me when I tell you that I pore over traffic statistics daily and study trendlines to see what people really like. Its also important to note that the popularity and longterm value of an article often has little to no correlation to its amount of comments.

For example expect to see more hobby and lore pieces coming online soon as those have proven to be real crowdpleasers. Also note that a well produced hobby tutorial is a much more time consuming endeavor than many other current events or news posts.

Readership wise, remember that while the Lounge is the stomping ground of some of the most talented and dedicated BoLS alumni, the vast mojority of our readership has at most 1-2 years of gaming experience, and are of college age, something we need to keep that in mind when writing.

On a final note, we are always looking for strong opinionated community voices (buffo) who want to share with the readership. So by all means, if you think we need some help or can lend a hand in an area you think we are ignoring, my inbox is always open.

-Larry (bigred)

[Pendragon38]

Sniff...Sniff .thats how you put the rest in there place Hats off to you Larry

[MC Tic Tac]

For me it's when iamaddj got his 'Articles' published.

Absolute drivel..........

[DarkLink]

and are of college age, something we need to keep that in mind when writing.


I swear that there are at least a few of us who aren't constantly drunk and are actually literate. And who actually go to class, too:rolleyes:.

[Denzark]

Never!

[Denzark]

Just my 2 cents as someone who may have some insider knowledge on this issue :)

I too remember the heady days of 2007-8 with the minidexes, campaign books and decals. It was a huge amount of fun and hard work to put those things together, but as some others have said, we have slwly adapted and shifted coverage as we have grown. For those who still want them all that stuff is still availableonthe Fly Lords of Terra club webpage (google it).

Happy days.

If someone had told me 4 years ago that my little personal blog covering my crazy campaign ideas and my Death Guard army would have over 30 contributors, and publish 5 times a day 365, I would have said you were crazy. But somehow it happened.

Yes 40k is and always will be our bread and butter, but its has been great fun to meet new comapanies and friends along the way and see the coverage broaden to cover a lot of the other big gaming systems. I would be remiss if I didn't say that I for one and very happy to see outfits like Privateer and Battlefront knocking out grade A game systems recently such as Warmachine/Hordes MkII. I always think that multiple strong competitors are a net plus for the wargames market and we are always happy to give any major system coverage and exposure to our readers.


Content wise, we are definately led by what the readers respond to, and believe me when I tell you that I pore over traffic statistics daily and study trendlines to see what people really like. Its also important to note that the popularity and longterm value of an article often has little to no correlation to its amount of comments.

This comment interests me. If, as you say, the VALUE of an item does not correlate to AMOUNT of comments, why be led by what readers RESPOND to? You achieved the readership (.eng!) without pandering to the masses originally - why did you feel any NEED to change Mr Red?. Is the point now simply to get more readers, or give something of value?

For example expect to see more hobby and lore pieces coming online soon as those have proven to be real crowdpleasers. Also note that a well produced hobby tutorial is a much more time consuming endeavor than many other current events or news posts.

Awesome.

Readership wise, remember that while the Lounge is the stomping ground of some of the most talented and dedicated BoLS alumni, the vast mojority of our readership has at most 1-2 years of gaming experience, and are of college age, something we need to keep that in mind when writing.

I fail to see the relevance. What are your planning factors? As above, you came to the attention of people with your ORIGINAL style, so why a need to change? Surely these 1-2 years experience college gamers found BoLS by the ALUMNI you refer to saying 'here is the straight dope, the quirky, the non mainstream, every thing dakkaseer is not.' And do the college people not want well written articles without spelling mistakes? Or are none of the ever increasing trolling/flaming refering to your guest writers actually the college fellas you are talking about?

On a final note, we are always looking for strong opinionated community voices (buffo) who want to share with the readership. So by all means, if you think we need some help or can lend a hand in an area you think we are ignoring, my inbox is always open.



-Larry (bigred)

Thanks for taking the time to come on and add your 2 cents worth - actually worth a little more so all good!

[Melissia]

... because sometimes a lot of people add negative comments? Duh?

[Tirion]

In all honesty I thought BoLS 'Jumped the Shark' a long time ago when a pretty girl was spotted playing warhammer. It made the game seem sooo much nerdier and really I don't think it is. I do hate the goatboy garbage and refuse to even read what he has to say. I also hate the new tactics that have been popping up on the home page. You can tank shock guys into assault range REALLY! I never would have known. Complete crap. It seems to me that the main page is for the power gamers and the lounge is for everyone else. I do appreciate real tactics this site and its community have really helped me when I first started 40k with Tau and now instead of getting destroyed I’m at least competitive. And I do love the painting tips and terrain help, have you seen the alien jungle made of fake flowers AWESOME!!! It's just rare that I have anything to say to add to the conversation other than that looks great, thanks for the tip, and that’s why I think people don't think anyone’s really paying attention to them but we are. Yeah BoLS has problems but I’m stuck at work away from my plastic crack and until I can get back to it the lounge keeps me subdued.

The new tactics are not crap. you claim to have appreciated the tactics when you first started but now they're not worth your time? Did you think maybe they are helping someone else who is new? No didn't think that far ahead. Ok I got ya

[crazyredpraetorian]

Which is unfortunate, because blogs are like dick and piss sandwiches using stale bread. It might be edible, but that doesn't mean they're healthy or tasty.


It's an A.D.D. world.

[murrburger]

The only problems I have with BoLS at the moment are those God awful gamer grll articles (I'm male, if that makes a difference) and Goatboy list stuff. I'll skim over most ofthe daily stuff, though. I try and glance at everything Warhammer/WM related. Reading comments is generally a waste of time, but I find myself doing it anyways.

What I really like are Jwolf articles, and some of the Sunday editorials. Nowadays, I find myself reading the blog more than the forum.

[Melissia]

What exactly do you define as "gamer girl" articles?

The "I just nailed a post-it to my brain!" stupid "omg there's girls omg!" articles that are posted occasionally (which also represents the intelligence of their posters), or the ones taht are posted by gamers who just so happen to be female? The former I agree with.

[Mal]

Personally I simply don't read the blogs, I get everything I want from the forum and thats that.

There is more to BOLS than the blog pages, there is a little something here for everyone, and to be fair to the mods... this place is only as good is the people who use it.

[murrburger]

@ Melissa

The former. I don't care if an author is male/female, but you shouldn't have to keep reminding me..

[Melissia]

Most of those articles aren't by girls, but by dudes who want an excuse to post pictures of tits on the blog.

[Commissar Lewis]

Man, BoLS hasn't jumped the shark; a shark jump usually indicates a massive change in the work in question. BoLS still is about the wargaming hobby, and as it is a social one the articles about the cads that can't be bothered with minimal hygiene is very much wargaming related.

[Denzark]

Man, BoLS hasn't jumped the shark; a shark jump usually indicates a massive change in the work in question. BoLS still is about the wargaming hobby, and as it is a social one the articles about the cads that can't be bothered with minimal hygiene is very much wargaming related.

CL far be it for me to disagree. But I had to check this definition and as stated, it implies a drop in quality, not just a change in content. And to date only 43% of those who answered the poll think everything is as good as ever...

[Melissia]

... which is a very telling percentage, considering this is a push poll.

[BuFFo]

CL far be it for me to disagree. But I had to check this definition and as stated, it implies a drop in quality, not just a change in content. And to date only 43% of those who answered the poll think everything is as good as ever...

This shows that 43% of people weren't part of BoLs before the spring of 2009.... That was the season BoLs hunted sharks and slaughtered them wholesale, just before the IG were released....

[DarkLink]

... which is a very telling percentage, considering this is a push poll.

It's also odd considering that a year ago, BoLS was a fraction of the size it is now. Sure, not all the articles are great, but we're getting significantly more content than ever before, and there's plenty of good stuff to go with the bad.

Saying BoLS has jumped the shark is almost like saying that a show jumped the shark during it's first season. BoLS really isn't that old, and since it seems like it's still growing strong I don't see how someone could really think that after one single article BoLS is suddenly horrible.

[BuFFo]

It's also odd considering that a year ago, BoLS was a fraction of the size it is now. Sure, not all the articles are great, but we're getting significantly more content than ever before, and there's plenty of good stuff to go with the bad.

Saying BoLS has jumped the shark is almost like saying that a show jumped the shark during it's first season. BoLS really isn't that old, and since it seems like it's still growing strong I don't see how someone could really think that after one single article BoLS is suddenly horrible.

Yeah, BoLs has gotten more readership, which is of course a good thing. I know you weren't talking to me, but despite my shark jumping comments, I am fully aware that more readership is better for BoLs overall.

I am just having a little fun finding ways to use the word "shark' in my posts here...

:p

[Koppenflak]

Wouldn't say it's jumped the shark, per-se, but I definately preferred the days when it lived up to its name.

...That is, a pre-eminent focus on 40k. I couldn't give an ape's behind for warmachine or flames of war. This is a personal thing of course. But the reason I came to BoLS to begin with was that Warseer was going down the loo, and the 40k niche that was BoLS was a very pleasant, almost daily, revelation.

These days I confess, I probably only actually find something I want to read every two or three days, mostly because of the amount of interspaced FoW and WM articles that comes up.

Without trying to kiss ***, I miss the prevelance of articles written by JWolf. Every time I read something of his, I could spend hours trying to break it down. Gamer Hygiene? ...Probably a little less cerebral. :p

[Kahoolin]

Yeah, BoLs has gotten more readership, which is of course a good thing.I'm just wondering why getting a larger readership is automatically a "good thing" though? BoLS is not a business to my knowledge. Does Just_Me get paid for writing his fluff articles? Why the assumption that what they should be doing is constantly striving for more readers?

I'm not coming at this from a standpoint of "BoLS is my special website and I want it for cool kids only", but rather just questioning the whole purpose here. BigRed and the others present BoLS as a blog run by volunteers who love the hobby. That's great. That doesn't require a high readership though. They could produce the same stuff for a hundred readers as for ten thousand because they don't have any responsibility to deliver to people what they demand. There are no customers here, that is an illusion because in a capitalist world we tend to see things in this producer/consumer relationship even when its not appropriate.

My point is the authors of BoLS seem to have made a successful blog, which seems to have made them try for even more readers and content, but if this means a dilution of content (which I'm not saying there is, but that's what we're talking about here), why should they seek more readers and try to increase content?

I just don't see how BoLS could possibly jump the shark unless they were aiming to pump out content that they weren't 100% passionate about in order to meet some deadline of a certain number of articles a day. And if that's what's happening then perhaps they should assess why they are doing that? I'm assuming here that BoLS is still basically an amateur publication, albeit a very successful one which gives the owner a bit of extra money through advertising. If that's true, what's wrong with a couple of high quality articles a week and leaving it at that?

If the truth is that BoLS is a professional publication however then it makes sense that they should do research, try to find out what people want, and give it to them in the form of daily articles written by paid professional writers. That's the only way to guarantee a standard people would expect from a business.

[BuFFo]

I'm just wondering why getting a larger readership is automatically a "good thing" though? BoLS is not a business to my knowledge. Does Just_Me get paid for writing his fluff articles? Why the assumption that what they should be doing is constantly striving for more readers?

BoLs sells Ad space.

They make money.

[Kahoolin]

BoLs sells Ad space.

They make money.Yes but is that why they do it? Surely they didn't start BoLS to get rich. The whole thing is based on other company's IP's.

What I'm asking is, is making ad money the reason for BoLS? If not, then there is no real need to pour out content just to seek readers. They could just write exactly what they want, when they want, and damn what anyone thinks.

[! : ?]

hey,
been a daily reader for a couple of years now,, i like the fact that there's more post in the lounge than before, but unfortunately these x-tra post seems mostley to be "other gamesystems" (which i don't play) or armylist than i wouldn't ever use.. i really like the "mild" quirky, funny, guestwriter, offangle articles.. i really wish that bols would do more for the nieche games, i can't remember the last time there was an article on necromunda, battle fleet gothic or mordheim, which is really a shame.. also, why aren't there more interviews with writers and gamedesigners, seems like a sure win? hey!

! : ?

[Col.Gravis]

I'll put my opinion on BoLS content this way, go back a year or so and I would read every post as it came into google reader, now I scan the titles.

I can't remember the last one I actually loaded up and read, not scanned over, but read, not to say I don't read any but the content just is'nt what it was.

I miss the BoLS of good well sourced rumours and new hobby content (by which I mean the likes of Mini-Dex's), it's what they did best, now the later does'nt seem to be there at all and to find the rumours you have to go through all the chaff. The likes of all the tactical, tournament and army analysis (which I'm afraid tend to be done far better elsewhere), the largely pointless captioned pictures which just feel like a way to boost the blog post count and excessive editorial type articles.

Sure that content has it's audience, don't get me wrong, but it seems that this is entirely the focus on BoLS now with the quanity of the new content surpassing the quality of the old. It was that quality which IMHO made BoLS so great and caused it to basicly catapult to the top of the 40k Blogging Community.

Change is fine, but when it's at the expense of something that was as it was excellent I have to question it. I'd much rather have the old slim line, high quality version of BoLS back then the all singing all dancing, forum and ad filled version of today.

The only consistant way I'm on BoLS now is browsing through the Lounge maybe once or twice a day, the same as I do alot of forums, I don't even have the BoLS front page in my favourites anymore :(

[Koppenflak]

I'll put my opinion on BoLS content this way, go back a year or so and I would read every post as it came into google reader, now I scan the titles.

I can't remember the last one I actually loaded up and read, not scanned over, but read, not to say I don't read any but the content just is'nt what it was.

I miss the BoLS of good well sourced rumours and new hobby content (by which I mean the likes of Mini-Dex's), it's what they did best, now the later does'nt seem to be there at all and to find the rumours you have to go through all the chaff. The likes of all the tactical, tournament and army analysis (which I'm afraid tend to be done far better elsewhere), the largely pointless captioned pictures which just feel like a way to boost the blog post count and excessive editorial type articles.

Sure that content has it's audience, don't get me wrong, but it seems that this is entirely the focus on BoLS now with the quanity of the new content surpassing the quality of the old. It was that quality which IMHO made BoLS so great and caused it to basicly catapult to the top of the 40k Blogging Community.

Change is fine, but when it's at the expense of something that was as it was excellent I have to question it. I'd much rather have the old slim line, high quality version of BoLS back then the all singing all dancing, forum and ad filled version of today.

The only consistant way I'm on BoLS now is browsing through the Lounge maybe once or twice a day, the same as I do alot of forums, I don't even have the BoLS front page in my favourites anymore :(

Well said, sir. Speaking of high quality content... when are we going to see more action happening on your wonderful Praetorians again!?

[Javin]

I do not think BoLS has "jumped the Shark", I do believe it has changed. I do miss the days of mini dexs and the grand campaigns. I really enjoy any of the hobby articles and the fluff articles. I could really care less about lists.

I do fairly well in my local area. I have played SM (Ultramarines 5th company), Orkz (Blood Axes complete with a camoed Stompa, and IG (the 307th Royal Rifles), all of whom I have gone to or won the second round of 'ard boyz. I believe that the enjoyment and fluff of a race should bring you to a faction, not the current power list. I think our generalship will make a list competitive.

I think that spirit was what brought me to BoLS. I still visit regularly to see what new information (codex's, home made rules, models). I like visiting the lounge when I have spare time.

[MarneusCalgar]

I have zero interest in competitive lists and tournaments and all that sort of thing and I can't say I have a problem with BolS articles. Though it would be nice to see more hobby articles.

I agree...

There are so many opinion articles... and so few about hobby!!

I usually tend to visit Beasts of War, they do a daily hobby article... And with video!!

[mikethefish]

I think the diversity isn't bad, doing a bit of Fantasy now means i appreciate the articles a bit more, but the warmachine stuff is pointless. Look at its section on the forum...the Warmachine and FoW bit are dead.


I can't say anything about Flames of War as I don't play it or persuse other sites devoted to it, but I can talk about the PP section as I am a player.

The reason that I and a lot of other PP players don't post in the Lounge here is because there already is like 2 or 3 really good forums out there going fairly strong - including the forum over at the corporate website. I come on BoLS all the time to check out the WM content, but I don't bother looking into the Lounge - as you say it's dead.

Games Workshop shut it's doors on their own forum (which wasn't really any good in the first place), so that's why forums like this one become popular for GW players. But on PP's site, sometimes the actual PP staff (writers, designers, etc) will pop up and give a comment or something - they actually SUPPORT their forum community in at least a small way. So yeah, given that, of course folks are going to want to hang around in that particular forum.

Anyhow, long story short - just because the PP section of the Lounge doesn't mean that PP players never come here. I check this site pretty much daily to see if a PP article has come up. I read some of the GW articles to (as I play Fantasy) but it's not really my main draw. It's just that I spend my Forum posting time elsewhere.

[Mobynick]

I have lurked here for ages, and have recently become active in the forums. Originally I was only concerned with rumours, it was like BOLS had someone on the inside. Now it seems everyone has the same rumours at the same time...or rather GW has closed down whatever leaks there once was.
Now days I ask advise on some things to get a broad spread of ideas, at least people here will offer an opinion. I also like that the forums are not policed by heavy handed mods. I only play GW games and have no interest in other systems. BOLS was fundermentally a 40k site, it isn't now and the only people who can determine if this is a good or bad thing are the BOLS staff.
1 critisium I do have is that while some articals are well written and relevent others are rubbish, perhaps articals need to be better moderated. I still think BOLS is one of the best 40k sites but things can always be improved on.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Hrm, I tend to ignore articles that dont interest me - but I have to admit that's grown more. The recent article on minor-xeno races is the kind of thing I like though and something iv wanted the site to focus on for years so I'm quite happy with that. I do miss the transfer sheets, campaign books ect - even if I never personally had any use for it, I found it quite inspiring nonetheless.

I must admit I dont have any interest in power-lists or really rules related things in general (my group usually make up our own rules anyway).

Then again, it's run by fans and I dont think I could do much better, I mean look at my grammar ? it's hardly printable for articles is it ? I dont know, once I get some of my new armies done id be happy to contribute if there is any interest in modelling minor xeno stuff. I still have my Ulumeathi and a bunch of others on the backburner. :rolleyes:

[pgmason]

I definitely fele there has been a reduction in quality of the content overall over the last few months. It seems that despite having 5 times as many articles, the ones worth reading are fewer and further between.

I started to come to BoLS regularly for the campaign and mini-dex content - something which seems to have dried up completely now. I have no interest in battle reports, power gaming netlists or anything like that. In fact, I often go 2 or 3 days without finding sometihng worth reading.

I play 40k and WM/H so its nice to see content for the latter, and surprisingly its often better than the 40k content these days.

[Herald of Nurgle]

(First of all - it should be obvious which option I went for. Like, a derp-de-derp. I can't disagree with my uncle thrice removed)

The problem with BoLS is twofold. There's less to talk about without angering the old bloods (i.e. myself) who remember articles for a LONG time or the newbies who will leave the site (and migrate to the south with Purgatus and ZombYs) because the articles aren't to their taste.

BoLS IS an ad driven site - thats what pays for the lounge and multiple domain names, and what makes up for some of the loss of BoLScon (you DARE force me to call it that s*itty WarGamesCon and I WILL choke you) and other coverage (i.e. Adepticon, some of GW's s*itty practices). But the Ads - aside from stuff like the Pamela Anderson crap which was being flung around for a time - aren't the problem.

Likewise, BoLS is now a nouveau-poole site. The old guard (Bigred, Good Mkerr, Aventine, and others) don't post as much anymore, thats for sure. But BoLS hasn't lost a bunch of the good writers either - Goatboy, (often) Brass Scorpion, Just Me, and... erm... Brent!

Ah. Wait, I just noticed who I left out.

The problem with BoLS is you let some dick stick their dick into your perfectly good pudding! You let in Darkwynn (and the Leafblower - destroying ur hobbi since 2009). You allowed TastyTaste, Not Brent, Evil Mkerr (aka: Post-Chainfist), and Spacecurves in. You allowed for the Competitive side of things to suddenly outweigh the good old fashioned balanced hobby stuff. You can talk about how, back at the start, the blog would've gone nowhere if Bigred had kept to his Death Guard stuff but, man oh man, the Death Guard stuff is/was why i'm in the hobby. Your Death Guard are the only reason why I started Chaos Space Marines, man. I loved them. I'm happy to go through 20 pages of bulls**t on stuff like powergaming Blood Angels, Wolves, Guard, SM, and others if it means that you touch on some awesome Brass Scorpion project or Death Guard peek. But not everyone will do that.

On top of all that, you turned away from your Minidexes, despite your unique style, choice of stuff which hasn't been touched on by GW, and, well, the quality of your works! You can say 'uhhhh... Gee-Dubya stole our rights' or 'Ay Pee D00d' but man, why the f*ck does it matter?

You talk about the Fly Lords of Terra blog as being up and running still, but hahahah... no. You can say that, but you stopped any work on that after Week 3 of Macharian Crusade, I believe. You missed an opportunity there, man. If you had simply split all of that campaign stuff over to there, no-one would be complaining and you'd still satisfy your main userbase. As it is, you've just made it stagnant. Well done.

Nice Job Breaking It, Hero.

[sukigod]

... allowed for the Competitive side of things to suddenly outweigh the good old fashioned balanced hobby stuff.

In a nutshell right here.

[Melissia]

I don't really care about the hobby aspects to begin with most of the time. Painting is the most boring, obnoxious part of hte hobby and that's usually what they're concerned with.

Why not an article on conversions?

[sukigod]

I don't really care about the hobby aspects to begin with most of the time. Painting is the most boring, obnoxious part of hte hobby and that's usually what they're concerned with.

Why not an article on conversions?

Why not? Good question. I would count this as part of the "hobby" hobby aspect of the game.

I would agree with the idea that the majority of the articles are competitive meta-gaming over hobby oriented content. Is it bad? Who knows (besides Bigred ;) ), as it seems they get the numbers (viewers, clicks, etc. ) to justify the advertising. I understand the vicious circle this is and I don't fault that either. All this does is mean I breeze through more of the post titles without clicking on them to read the entire post. That's just me and apparently I'm not in the majority. Oh well, I'll live with it an adjust my viewing habits accordingly.

All in all it means I spend less time here than I used to. If they deem my interests in the "hobby" side as more fitting for content, I'll spend more time here. It's how it works.

I completely agree with Bigred about the differences in time it takes to create "hobby" oriented posts over tactical. Tutorials and the like are much more time intensive. I've written a number of online tutorials and know how much more effort goes into these. Kudos to all those who do!

[fuzzbuket]

im going to say bigred should ask and then lift some of the hobby stuff from the lounge so it could bask in glourious front page limelight :D

[Bigred]

I normally try to respect people's privacy regarding the Lounge, so I am a bit uncomfortable with just yanking great looking stuff and using it on the frontpage.

But if anyone volunteers, thats a different story and anyone can PM me - so please do. One of the primary reasons we created the Lounge was to give the hobbyists a place where they can endulge in lengthy thread based projects and conversations that are difficult to have on the frontpage.

Also believe me when I say that I read all the feedback from this thread. I don't want to get too much into it for a myriad of reason, but let me just put out there, regarding some of the differences between the bols of today and the bols of 3 years ago that there is a world of difference in what an individual is often allowed to create versus a much larger website...if ya get my drift...

[Herald of Nurgle]

I normally try to respect people's privacy regarding the Lounge, so I am a bit uncomfortable with just yanking great looking stuff and using it on the frontpage.

But if anyone volunteers, thats a different story and anyone can PM me - so please do. One of the primary reasons we created the Lounge was to give the hobbyists a place where they can endulge in lengthy thread based projects and conversations that are difficult to have on the frontpage.

Also believe me when I say that I read all the feedback from this thread. I don't want to get too much into it for a myriad of reason, but let me just put out there, regarding some of the differences between the bols of today and the bols of 3 years ago that there is a world of difference in what an individual is often allowed to create versus a much larger website...if ya get my drift...
Hmm... So what you're saying is that if we were able to somehow 'reduce' the size of the site - say, through culling unnecessary writers, for instance - we could have our DECENT BoLS back, rather than your, say, more shallow and samey crap which goes on these days?

Get the harpoons.

[Bigred]

Not exactly...

Lets just say that all the big sites above a certain size feel the gaze of Magnus upon them now and again, and the rules of the game are irrevocably changed by it.

[Mal]

If it helps bigred, once I get my chaos army back I can do a lounge topic about how to paint a deathguard army in a day and you can throw that up as a blog entry if you like (I need to wait for the army as I didn't take any pics before lending it out, and im probally going to want to touch up any ware and tear from usage). As a nice center piece of the army, im using slightly converted RT dreadnoughts (1987) as oblits.

[Bigred]

Ohh, Eddies as Oblits.... Very Nice! Where did you pick them up?

Also, I'm gonna give this a little while longer, then move it to a general subforum that isn't 40k focussed. Now to figure out where that is...

[Mal]

They were an ebay special... they even came with 20 years of paint layed on them so thick that it was over 2mm deep... took me a while to clean them up.