Cynical guesses about the new DE codex

[Santiaghoul]

I have played DE since they first appeared at the beginning of 3rd Edition. I struggled for many years to master the army but eventually master it I did. Now, Im worried about what horrible things GW are going to do to oldest codex in the game.

So, tongue firmly in cheek, I have decided to try and stave off disappointment by coming up with just how bad it could get. Feel free to add to the list.

1) Raiders will start out 20pts, but have AV10, no weapons, open top skimmer, not fast and only transport 5 warriors. To get a weapon, and fast, and transport 10 it will cost more than a land raider.

2) Shadowfield will return, give a 2+ Invul but the first failure removes the model regardless of wounds remaining plus any retinue.

3) Reavers get the new run through rule but they are 75pts apiece, they can only do the attack once per game, and they treat the enemy squad as though they were landing in dangerous terrain and die on a 3+.

4) Combat drugs affect the entire army, only 1 die roll at the beginning of the game. The result of 6 is all units taking the drugs are removed from the game.

5) Mandrakes still move as 3 different units until revealed; but the revealing requires a Ld check and failure means opponent picks which unit is real. Plus since the unit failed a Ld check, it is now falling back.

6) Wych weapons up the number of attacks, but lowers the str of the squad.

7) Scourges and Hellions are back, they use the exact same rules as in the current codex.

8) Talos is back. The gun still fires random number of shots but now it will affect the DE army as well.

9) Ravagers start out as a armor 10, open top, not fast skimmer with no weapons and start out at the cost of a Land Raider. To kit it out to the same level as the original codex, it will cost more than a titan.

10) All warriors will have the stat line of grots, Incubi will have a guardsman statline, Archons will have the statline of a SM scout, Wyches will have the statline of a Fire Warrior.

[Drew da Destroya]

The Disintegrator will literally disintegrate the model firing it. For triple-disintegrator Ravagers, it destroys itself, and the two closest units. No saves of any kind can be used to prevent disintegration, and you must immediately smash your model with a hammer until it's a fine, powdery dust.

Breathing in said dust, however, is optional.

[BuFFo]

The new Dissie's rules is rather piss poor.

Seriously.

[fuzzbuket]

oh yeah even the nid dex was not as bad as this :p

OH AND heres a sample studio army

8 archons (1600 pts) all with nothing
5 warriors (400pts)
raider (no ipgrades 500pts)

[Mal]

Wow man.. just wow!

My new DE army is going to be roxxors with these new rules!!

;)

[Xas]

mandrakes spezial scouting move is replaced by the marine ability "heroic intervention" and deep strike but to balance it out they scatter 3d6 instead of 2d6 and even scatter 1d6 when a hit is rolled.


grotesquen loose the immunity to s5- guns but get 10 wounds and t2 instead (I'm looking at you tyranid warriors!) so the holy bolter can instagib them.

shadowfield is in, costs 100 points, confers a 2++ save and does not wear off once failed but also grants it to the oponents because it is bi-directional.

the punisher weapon has two modes: one is poison 4+ the other is power weapon. you can choose one ability per round of cc. archons are the only ones who can buy two of them for the combined effect but together they cost 75 points (25 for first, 50 for 2nd).

all ranged weapons in the dark eldar army are poison 4+, s2. only the rate of fire and range differe. dark matter weapons in addition have the lance and melta special rule so they can hurt armor.

harpies are the only non-vehicle unit that can take "heavy weapons" but to not be OP they do NOT get relentless.

shadow field for vehicles is in, giving them a 5+ invul save if they moved the turn before and costing 50 for raiders, 100 for other vehicles.

hagashin weapons reduce the number of attacks from models in base contact by one... including friendly models.

[w7west]

Raider receives no changes other than increased point cost by 5

Ravager receives no changes other than disintigrators no longer get plasma cannon mode

Warriors can now only carry one special weapon per 10 man squad, as well as only having one lance per 10 man squad. Lances will more than double in cost, as will blasters.

Vect will lose his armor 14 and cost almost twice as much

Lelith will get worse in cc, lose her 2+ invuln, lose combat drugs, and cost 80 points more

Grotesques are now better in cc than wyches

Incubi are no longer ws 5 and lose their pistol hat shooting atta... oh, wait a second... dear god these changes are comfirmed.

uh, I guess I will make one up to ease the pain:

wyches armor save is now 20+, and must be rolled on a 20 sided dice.

[Mal]

Lelith will get worse in cc, lose her 2+ invuln, lose combat drugs, and cost 80 points more

Ohh wait...

[w7west]

Ohh wait...

Lelith: Im gonna cut you up with 9 power weapon attacks!

Space marine: Squad, get to defensive position!

Techmarine: Lol guys, is only str 3!

Space marine: LOL advance! Rapid fire the xenos!

[Quaade]

Raider receives no changes other than increased point cost by 5

Ravager receives no changes other than disintigrators no longer get plasma cannon mode

Warriors can now only carry one special weapon per 10 man squad, as well as only having one lance per 10 man squad. Lances will more than double in cost, as will blasters.

Vect will lose his armor 14 and cost almost twice as much

Lelith will get worse in cc, lose her 2+ invuln, lose combat drugs, and cost 80 points more

Grotesques are now better in cc than wyches

Incubi are no longer ws 5 and lose their pistol hat shooting atta... oh, wait a second... dear god these changes are comfirmed.

uh, I guess I will make one up to ease the pain:

wyches armor save is now 20+, and must be rolled on a 20 sided dice.

1. you always ended up using sustained against a smart opponent anyway because they spread out, S5, AP2 H3 will be overall better. Also doesn't cost anything to upgrade.

2. Sniper squads were too good to be honest, and would be as well now the rest are insanely good.

3. Vect IS worth twice as much

4. Lelith overall effectiveness remains the same, also her save won't go away, with 2 pain tokens she's way better than before. DE is now about synergy. Adapt

5. yes and no, they are good though and I thankfully have some plastics I can put right in as some ^^

6. Incubi ARE WS5 and don't need their hats as they are base 2 attacks.

Please don't get scared by what people post online, go to your local gamestore and read trough the codex yourself :)
In this case there's nothing to be afraid of other than choosing which units doesn't get into a given battle as all the units are really really good.

[Drew da Destroya]

1. you always ended up using sustained against a smart opponent anyway because they spread out, S5, AP2 H3 will be overall better. Also doesn't cost anything to upgrade.

2. Sniper squads were too good to be honest, and would be as well now the rest are insanely good.

3. Vect IS worth twice as much

4. Lelith overall effectiveness remains the same, also her save won't go away, with 2 pain tokens she's way better than before. DE is now about synergy. Adapt

5. yes and no, they are good though and I thankfully have some plastics I can put right in as some ^^

6. Incubi ARE WS5 and don't need their hats as they are base 2 attacks.

Please don't get scared by what people post online, go to your local gamestore and read trough the codex yourself :)
In this case there's nothing to be afraid of other than choosing which units doesn't get into a given battle as all the units are really really good.

That's not cynical at all! Totally not in spirit of the thread. We don't want your "facts" or "reasoning" in here!

Therefore...

1. Raiders can only move 6" a turn, top speed. Units cannot shoot or disembark if the raider moved at all. To offset this, the raider now benefits from the "weak against templates" special ability.

2. Ravagers may now deep strike by default, but must roll once on the Penetrating Hit table when they land. Remember, they're open topped, so it's +1 to the result.

3. Warrior Squads may no longer take heavy weapons at all. They come armed with a splinter pistol stock, and one in every 10 may upgrade to a splinter rifle. One Warrior model in the army may take a shredder or blaster.

4. Incubi are now the same as current-codex Eldar Guardians. Except they can't take a support weapon. The swords are just for show.

[BuFFo]

1. you always ended up using sustained against a smart opponent anyway because they spread out, S5, AP2 H3 will be overall better. Also doesn't cost anything to upgrade.

LOL!!!!!

In my years of playing DE, I have used the Sustained shot only a handful of times. Online, in a perfect world, units are not bunched up, but in real life, in real games, units always bunch up for one reason or another.

The loss of teh Plasma Cannon shot is HUGE, bigger than you would think.

The Dissie is now a pile of crap, and instead of the Ravager the other new vehicles, which support 'Plasma like blast weaponry' will simply take over.


2. Sniper squads were too good to be honest, and would be as well now the rest are insanely good.

To be honest, they weren't 'too good'. They were balanced for an army with piss porr close combat ability outside a single unit or two.

Warriors just get steam rolled by anything in CC, and anyone who has played Dark Eldar KNOWS that you can have 18 Dark Lances in your army, but they will always seem to fail to pen anything. Firing 7 Dark Lances at a Rhino with/Without smoke is pretty crappy.


3. Vect IS worth twice as much

Uh, no, he isn't. You are coming off like the tons of people cropping up everywhere - sudden DE experts who havne't touched DE, if ever, in years. Vect isn't worth his points now, and he SURE won't be worth his points at 440... Seriously, are you defending 440 points for an open topped AV13 vehicle?


4. Lelith overall effectiveness remains the same, also her save won't go away, with 2 pain tokens she's way better than before. DE is now about synergy.

Wrong. Simple math shows you Lelith now kills more marines than the double costed version we are going to have. And the very fact that you need to use Pain Tokens to make her JUST as good as the current Lelith is pretty crappy.

You'll see Synergy when you are trying for 4 turns to kill something in CC, just so that lelith can actually kill marines on turn 5.

Synergy... Yeah, that worked so well with Tau and Deamons.

Now I am starting to see what Tyranid players felt when their book came out...

- edit -

I know I come off as harsh, but I am trying my BEST to be as honest as possible so that new players won't fall into the same trap they did 10 years ago with DE in 3rd edition. I am not honey coating anything to 'improve' the appearance of 'my' race. If something looks BAD, I'll point it out as to not mislead anyone.

DE is not an easy army to use, and so far, from the rumors presented to me here on BoLs, they just seem to have got a price increase for just about everything, while actually losing their lethality. People are going crazy over most of the new rules/abilities in these rumors, but what these people don't realize is that DE already can do 99% of what you see in the rumors currently anyway, and much cheaper!

In the end, don't go ito the army thinking it will be a cake walk to win with DL spam. This army is deceptively hard to use.

[Mal]

BuFFo I have not long finished a match where I took on 1500 pts BA tourny list... and tabled him on turn 3.... with a 12 year old dex...

Comparing what I use now to what i'll have access to later, my army will actually be worse and a lot more unwieldly... I think i'll have to completly relearn the army to be good with them again... and im not entirely sure im looking forward to it.

N.b. I almost cried when 10 assault marines + libby charged into my archon and incubi.... the marines learnt the hard way that DE do in fact have a fairly resiliant unit in their army... He almost called me a cheater for rolling 3+ saves until I showed him my codex.
It just goes to show, with a 12 year old dex, people simply don't know what they are capable of... they are a seriously nasty army in the right hands... and all things considered I think they will actually loose a little of their competative edge in the new codex.

[BuFFo]

Comparing what I use now to what i'll have access to later, my army will actually be worse and a lot more unwieldly...

Based on the rumors I have seen so far presented here on BoLs, I have to agree. Dark Eldar seems to have actually taken a dive in terms of power, which is FINE, I am all about change, but some of the changes are just, ugh... 440 point Vect? SERIOUSLY!?!?!? He has to have rules people are just skipping over because he is not worth his current 277 price tag, let alone a 200 point increase.

People do realize that he dies to Lascannons and Meltas easily, right? And this is with his current AV14 configuration!

He is a single wound model, and nothing more.


I think i'll have to completly relearn the army to be good with them again... and im not entirely sure im looking forward to it.

I am also fine with this. I accept change and a challenge, and much like the Tyranid players, I have to just get used to the new codex, which is vastly different than my current codex.

If only MEQ players felt the pain of the xenos armies....


and all things considered I think they will actually loose a little of their competative edge in the new codex.

This I must disagree with. Why? Because so far, I am only comparing the old rules versus the new rules without any actual table top testing. For all we know, the new Dark Eldar codex may not be a strong as the old codex, but in reality actually be more competitive, if that makes any sense.

For instance... Tyranids now are harder to kill for me as a DE player than in their 4th edition book, even though many consider the 4th edition version stronger. Why? Carnifex spam died out, and my Dark lances no longer have anything to shoot at. It is all up to the meta game, and that can take months or years to develop.

I know this thread is supposed to be a joke thread, so I am sorry for going off topic.

Here is a joke... Dark Eldar models got prettier while their rules seem to have gotten uglier... Wait a second....

[DarkLink]

He has to have rules people are just skipping over because he is not worth his current 277 price tag, let alone a 200 point increase.


I suspect this is the case, as well as with Lelith. I don't see how they're getting that many points out of the listed rumors. Those rules must just be some of the highlights

[BuFFo]

I suspect this is the case, as well as with Lelith. I don't see how they're getting that many points out of the listed rumors. Those rules must just be some of the highlights

I agree.

Just like the Duke guy who makes your Hellions troop choices, he seems to have zero abilities according to the rumors.

Dang it not having access to the new DE codex myself!!!

[Xas]

like the tyranids DE _are_ getting nerfed.

problem with the E3 dex wasnt the powerlevel (which was quite high compared to modern dexes) but the fact that only a few units were available once you filtered out the good ones.


but unlike tyranids DE at least got a hughe load of very fine models. well nids didnt NEED them as much but haveing only 50% of your "good" units available in terms of models is crap (droppods, tervigons, tyrannofexes,...)

[eldargal]

I just don't see it. Dark Eldar can put out obscene amounts of poisoned shots, clean up in CC with Wyches and Incubi (not to mention the Archon and retinue, 2+ poison wounds) and have decent anti-tank capability with dark lances and heat lances. They won't play like they used too, and I think that is what is concerning people who are looking at the units through a prism of old playstyle.

[JonnyRoxtar]

Did y`all want DE to be the next UBER list?

[BuFFo]

Did y`all want DE to be the next UBER list?

The current codex already is, lol! I knew for years coming into this, that any new DE codex would be a power level 'nerf' anyway. There was no way DE was going to get more powerful.

'Balancing' the DE to make them less of a power gaming army and more of a fun army is a good thing. It'll just take time to adjust, tha'ts all. :)

[Santiaghoul]

Did y`all want DE to be the next UBER list?

By no means. Let's just say that I have noticed a lack of consistency in the desginers. You get a couple of really strong codexes; themed, good power level that makes the army feel strong yet beatable then the next condex to come out is all about "returning to the origins..." and " captures the feeling yet...." and you get a codex that is really only competitive after a few givens with your opponent. You know, "Given that I cant fight out of a wet sack, you dont take x,y,z and then it will be a fair game for both of us."

Like I said, Im cynical. :)

[Old_Paladin]

I have to say, after spending the last day reading the "zomg! awesome tactics for the new dark Eldar, who now, roxzor!" that are popping up all over the place.
It's clear that a huge number of people are just jumping on the bandwagon, but have never played the army in their life.

I hear jems like:
"If you take Vect and three ravagers you get 9 dark lance shots on first turn, NINE!"
And your point? The old codex could do that easily, and didn't need a significantly costed character.

"Lilith cost them same as Kantor or Vulkan, so she's still affordable and effective."
That's a lot of points on a character that has no affect on the rest of your army, went from 90 to 175 points and went from having wych weapons and agonizer and could use drugs, to having a bunch of power weapon attacks.


I do think that the codex can be good; but it is a paradigm shift.
But as least we'll get to see some great looking armies for a while and the veteran Kabilites out there should be able to double or triple their army size for cheap in a few months.

[eldargal]

Codex Adjustment Disorder is going to hit hard for DE. Twelve years gives one a great deal of time to learn the codex and how to use the army, now everything is changed.

[Mal]

Heh it'll change right when im just getting back into the grove again...

3 more matches today... 2 tabled by turn 3... 1 I got my rear handed to me... (he knew DE very well... but i'll have my revenge! Oh yess I will! hahahaha! *Cough* sorry)