whitestar333
10-04-2010, 05:25 AM
So it makes me a bit sad to see the Warmachine threads so empty compared to the 40k threads in the Lounge, so I decided that I would do my part by posting some lists that I've come up with and get people thinking about fun and effective lists to try or play! I know that most Warmachine players check other forums for their info, but I figured I could post some stuff here for the 'converts' who typically play 40k or Fantasy and are looking to dabble in Warmachine/Hordes.
My favorite Warmachine faction is Cygnar. While they might be considered the poster child for Privateer Press, they are nowhere near as popular, nor powerful, as one might expect considering their public status. Cygnar is the most technologically advanced faction, typically characterized by lots of ranged weapons and even bending lightning to their will (more on that in the future)!
One of my favorite faction characters is Siege. If you look at his rules, you realize that he is quite the tank (as far as Cygnar goes), with a lot of tactical utility to bring to both his own and his armies abilities. Some might say that the traditional tier lists are not very competitive nor effective, but I wanted to share this particular one that I crafted, to argue that they are, in fact, quite competitive!
Major Markus 'Siege' Brisbane (+5)
-Defender (9)
Trencher Cannon (3)
Trencher Cannon (3)
Trencher Chaingun Crew (2)
Trencher Commandos (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5)
-2 Trencher Commandos Scattergunner WA (2)
Trencher Infantry (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5)
-Trencher Infantry Officer & Sniper UA (3)
-Grenadier - 'Jack Marshalled (5)
Captain Maxwell Finn (3)
Trencher Master Gunner (Free!)
This list was built to maximize the benefits of Siege's tier list, although it does not get to Tier 4 because there were more important toys to play with, and the Tier 4 benefits (2+ defenders and they get advance move) don't seem all that great at this level of points. Here's the breakdown of the tiers that benefit this army:
Tier 1 - Trencher Infantry and Commandos 1 point cheaper (hence bold point values) + FA benefit to weapon crews (not important at this level)
Tier 2 - 3+ Trencher weapon crews and you get one Trencher Master Gunner for free
Tier 3 - 2+ Trencher Infantry and/or Commando units and you get a 3" AOE cloud effect within 20" of board edge for each unit after both players deployed. The effect dissipates after the first round.
So, thanks to our tier benefits, we essentially have 4 points of free stuff, meaning our list is 111% it's actual points cost, and that's for starters! You might also notice the prevalence of infantry and a lack of heavy hitters. You might ask, "How would this list deal with Khador? One Defender isn't enough; Karchev would eat this up!" Let me inform you of Siege's feat: Breach. It essentially means that the first time in the round that each enemy model suffers damage, you half the ARM value when calculating the damage. It's a little tricky, and there have been discussions about how the Defender's shock hammer is completely useless during the feat turn, but it can allow you to knock some heavy shots into those heavily armored 'jacks across the table. A CRA from your trencher infantry will suddenly have the potential to be at 2d6+7 damage against a typical ARM20 'jack!
There are a lot of neat tricks that this army has, and even more AOEs to play around with. The commandos will be your necessary flankers, and with stealth and tough they are likely to be a real headache for your opponent, knowing that those scatter gunners will try to get into perfect spray position. Add in anatomical precision and make sure that they can see Finn, and they will be killing all kinds of solos and infantry you want them to deal with on the flanks while your trenchers advance, shoot, and dig-in every turn. If you're worried about the trenchers getting hit by some AOE support, use the master-gunner to give *close fire to the grenadier (which should always be in BTB with some trenchers) and your commandos can get some close artillery support (with up to 3, POW 12, 3" AOEs) without worrying about blast damage. You should also keep Finn back and dug-in, with LOS to your trencher units to boost their effectiveness, but he's pretty squishy so don't be tempted to utilize his anatomical precision thresher and sprint - he's much better off buffing his trenchers!
Siege will want to be relatively greedy with his focus, so keeping him with just the defender allows him to allocate the one occasional focus to boost to hit or damage, and keeping the other 5 for some of his supporting spells, or to boost the damage on his Rocket Cannon (which is almost as good as the Defender cannon itself). You'll find yourself using Fox Hole and Mage Sight the most with Siege, with the occasional Rift to slow down units without pathfinder. If a 'jack or beast gets too close for comfort, Siege can also use Force Hammer to slam them back a bit. Siege is also a pretty tough 'caster, with DEF14 and ARM17, and with critical smite on his hammer, you can feel relatively safe using him to go up and smash something in the face with his POW14, and then smack it again with Force Hammer if you have the focus, essentially slamming a model back 2d6".
Oh and one of my favorite things about this list is that you can have 8 AOE shots on any particular turn (not counting the grenades from the commandos), which should make any non-shield wall unit shudder in anticipation.
Even still, this list is certainly better prepared for scenario wins and dealing with infantry-heavy lists, with the ability to hold-out against an opponent, being able to advance, shoot, and dig-in (thanks to the UA), shoot at stealth armies (TONS of AOEs and Mage Sight), and Siege can always apply the hammer directly to the forehead, if all else fails.
My favorite Warmachine faction is Cygnar. While they might be considered the poster child for Privateer Press, they are nowhere near as popular, nor powerful, as one might expect considering their public status. Cygnar is the most technologically advanced faction, typically characterized by lots of ranged weapons and even bending lightning to their will (more on that in the future)!
One of my favorite faction characters is Siege. If you look at his rules, you realize that he is quite the tank (as far as Cygnar goes), with a lot of tactical utility to bring to both his own and his armies abilities. Some might say that the traditional tier lists are not very competitive nor effective, but I wanted to share this particular one that I crafted, to argue that they are, in fact, quite competitive!
Major Markus 'Siege' Brisbane (+5)
-Defender (9)
Trencher Cannon (3)
Trencher Cannon (3)
Trencher Chaingun Crew (2)
Trencher Commandos (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5)
-2 Trencher Commandos Scattergunner WA (2)
Trencher Infantry (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5)
-Trencher Infantry Officer & Sniper UA (3)
-Grenadier - 'Jack Marshalled (5)
Captain Maxwell Finn (3)
Trencher Master Gunner (Free!)
This list was built to maximize the benefits of Siege's tier list, although it does not get to Tier 4 because there were more important toys to play with, and the Tier 4 benefits (2+ defenders and they get advance move) don't seem all that great at this level of points. Here's the breakdown of the tiers that benefit this army:
Tier 1 - Trencher Infantry and Commandos 1 point cheaper (hence bold point values) + FA benefit to weapon crews (not important at this level)
Tier 2 - 3+ Trencher weapon crews and you get one Trencher Master Gunner for free
Tier 3 - 2+ Trencher Infantry and/or Commando units and you get a 3" AOE cloud effect within 20" of board edge for each unit after both players deployed. The effect dissipates after the first round.
So, thanks to our tier benefits, we essentially have 4 points of free stuff, meaning our list is 111% it's actual points cost, and that's for starters! You might also notice the prevalence of infantry and a lack of heavy hitters. You might ask, "How would this list deal with Khador? One Defender isn't enough; Karchev would eat this up!" Let me inform you of Siege's feat: Breach. It essentially means that the first time in the round that each enemy model suffers damage, you half the ARM value when calculating the damage. It's a little tricky, and there have been discussions about how the Defender's shock hammer is completely useless during the feat turn, but it can allow you to knock some heavy shots into those heavily armored 'jacks across the table. A CRA from your trencher infantry will suddenly have the potential to be at 2d6+7 damage against a typical ARM20 'jack!
There are a lot of neat tricks that this army has, and even more AOEs to play around with. The commandos will be your necessary flankers, and with stealth and tough they are likely to be a real headache for your opponent, knowing that those scatter gunners will try to get into perfect spray position. Add in anatomical precision and make sure that they can see Finn, and they will be killing all kinds of solos and infantry you want them to deal with on the flanks while your trenchers advance, shoot, and dig-in every turn. If you're worried about the trenchers getting hit by some AOE support, use the master-gunner to give *close fire to the grenadier (which should always be in BTB with some trenchers) and your commandos can get some close artillery support (with up to 3, POW 12, 3" AOEs) without worrying about blast damage. You should also keep Finn back and dug-in, with LOS to your trencher units to boost their effectiveness, but he's pretty squishy so don't be tempted to utilize his anatomical precision thresher and sprint - he's much better off buffing his trenchers!
Siege will want to be relatively greedy with his focus, so keeping him with just the defender allows him to allocate the one occasional focus to boost to hit or damage, and keeping the other 5 for some of his supporting spells, or to boost the damage on his Rocket Cannon (which is almost as good as the Defender cannon itself). You'll find yourself using Fox Hole and Mage Sight the most with Siege, with the occasional Rift to slow down units without pathfinder. If a 'jack or beast gets too close for comfort, Siege can also use Force Hammer to slam them back a bit. Siege is also a pretty tough 'caster, with DEF14 and ARM17, and with critical smite on his hammer, you can feel relatively safe using him to go up and smash something in the face with his POW14, and then smack it again with Force Hammer if you have the focus, essentially slamming a model back 2d6".
Oh and one of my favorite things about this list is that you can have 8 AOE shots on any particular turn (not counting the grenades from the commandos), which should make any non-shield wall unit shudder in anticipation.
Even still, this list is certainly better prepared for scenario wins and dealing with infantry-heavy lists, with the ability to hold-out against an opponent, being able to advance, shoot, and dig-in (thanks to the UA), shoot at stealth armies (TONS of AOEs and Mage Sight), and Siege can always apply the hammer directly to the forehead, if all else fails.