Assaulting a transport

[Mike X]

Ran into an issue the other day when my Marines faced off against some Chaos Marines. My assault squad jumped over to my opponent's rhino and tossed krak grenades at it and blew it up. After making the appropriate damage and armor rolls, he had a squad of about five guys standing where the transport used to be.

My question now is, what's that squad considered? Are they locked in melee with my assault squad, or free to move (or assault back) in the next phase?

[Culven]

You Assault Squad charged and Engaged the Rhino, not the unit inside it. After the Rhino Exploded, The Assault Squad would no longer be Engaged with any Units.

[Mike X]

You Assault Squad charged and Engaged the Rhino, not the unit inside it. After the Rhino Exploded, The Assault Squad would no longer be Engaged with any Units.

Thanks.

[dwez]

Might as well ask this here as it seems related [just change transport to building]

I have a Tervigon and 16 Termagants in tow. A squad of terminators on 3 floors of a ruined building

Tervigon assaults the building- it penetrates roll on vehicle damage table.

Immobilised - does nothing.

Wrecked - terminators disembarks up to 2" away and pinning test [would you put a crater down? would it be difficult terrain? would the termies be allowed within this cover considering they had to disembark].

Explodes! - everyone takes a S4 hit and positioned where the building used to be and pinning test [no crater placed, or would it?].

If the tervigon's termagant spawn then assault any pinned or even unpinned occupants would the occupants get the 'assaulting through cover' bonuses?

What I'm getting at is if models are in a building and you destroy the building which was giving them the 'assaulting through cover' bonuses would they still get them if you destroyed the building?

First post...

[Fizyx]

Might as well ask this here as it seems related [just change transport to building]

I have a Tervigon and 16 Termagants in tow. A squad of terminators on 3 floors of a ruined building

Tervigon assaults the building- it penetrates roll on vehicle damage table.

Immobilised - does nothing.

Wrecked - terminators disembarks up to 2" away and pinning test [would you put a crater down? would it be difficult terrain? would the termies be allowed within this cover considering they had to disembark].

Explodes! - everyone takes a S4 hit and positioned where the building used to be and pinning test [no crater placed, or would it?].

If the tervigon's termagant spawn then assault any pinned or even unpinned occupants would the occupants get the 'assaulting through cover' bonuses?

What I'm getting at is if models are in a building and you destroy the building which was giving them the 'assaulting through cover' bonuses would they still get them if you destroyed the building?

First post...

First: all assaults are declared at the same time, so the termagants would only be allowed to assault the following turn.

Second: a building does not give a "assault through cover defense bonus" because you must assault it like a vehicle. However, once the building has been destroyed/wrecked, it becomes ruins and is treated the same.

[Ferro]

You have almost everything correct. Just treat the building like it's an immobilized rhino with armor 13 (or whatever you decided pre-game). Comments in bold:

Might as well ask this here as it seems related [just change transport to building]
I have a Tervigon and 16 Termagants in tow. A squad of terminators on 3 floors of a ruined building --this is confusing. You mean a building, and not a Ruins.
Tervigon assaults the building- it penetrates roll on vehicle damage table.
Immobilised - does nothing.
Wrecked - terminators disembark up to 2" away and pinning test [would you put a crater down? --no would it be difficult terrain? --yes would the termies be allowed within this cover considering they had to disembark --yes].
Explodes! - everyone takes a S4 hit and positioned where the building used to be and pinning test [no crater placed, or would it? --yes, place a crater if you have one. Don't forget to roll the explosion range too].

If the tervigon's termagant spawn then assault any pinned or even unpinned occupants would the occupants get the 'assaulting through cover' bonuses? --this is not possible

What I'm getting at is if models are in a building and you destroy the building which was giving them the 'assaulting through cover' bonuses would they still get them if you destroyed the building? --confusing. The building itself would not trigger assault through cover, for the same reason assaulting a Rhino in the open doesn't trigger assault through cover. A vehicle/building does not count as cover per se, and does not grant cover saves to the models embarked. If the building is on a terrain piece, then it may trigger ATC, but it's irrelevant. A Tervigon is already Initiative 1, and the building doesn't fight back anyway. Don't forget you auto-hit it (immobile!) Of course, if you have to move your assaulting models through cover for any reason, then yes.
First post... --welcome!

[dwez]

Cheers guys. Ferro I guess I meant ruin, this was the 'ruined building' in question

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_dZ-GLhcvuoQ/TN024EBwCjI/AAAAAAAAAOA/uqpjT5FPxgk/ruin6.jpg

So if it's already a ruin would your responses still read the same? If it's wrecked or destroyed would there still be cover/difficult terrain to take advantage of. If they've disembarked how can they still be conferring the cover save? [Not meaning whether they could re-enter the cover is there is any, just I assume they have to be placed outside of the structures footprint following diembarkation].

Fizyx, thanks for that. Indeed, having looked it up the Termagants wouldn't be able to assault them without being in the ruin first and suffering the same fate as the Terminators. Possibly getting mixed up somewhere. I was sure I'd read of situations where the transport was destroyed and people then assaulted the occupants. Mike X's original post stopped short of asking to clarify this bit. They're not in combat but from what you say they can't be assaulted either.

Damn, hate these pernickity rules.

[Nungunz]

Cheers guys. Ferro I guess I meant ruin, this was the 'ruined building' in question

So if it's already a ruin would your responses still read the same? If it's wrecked or destroyed would there still be cover/difficult terrain to take advantage of. If they've disembarked how can they still be conferring the cover save? [Not meaning whether they could re-enter the cover is there is any, just I assume they have to be placed outside of the structures footprint following diembarkation].

Ruins can't be wrecked or destroyed, so there is no disembarking or anything at all. Page 82-85 of the rulebook contains everything you need to know about ruins.


Possibly getting mixed up somewhere. I was sure I'd read of situations where the transport was destroyed and people then assaulted the occupants.

This is an exception to the normal rules. Page 67 of the rulebook.

[Archon Charybdis]

A unit can assault the occupants if they shot at and destroyed the vehicle in the shooting phase. It's an exception to the rule that you can normally only assault the unit you shot at.

[Ferro]

Oh geez. A Ruins and a Building are two entirely different situations. You're just going to have to read the rules, it's too much to get into here. Cheers.

[Doomgrin]

This si pretty simpel rules-wise.

A building is treated as an immobiled vehicle. Determine the access points, armor and firepoints before beginning the game.

A wrecked result forces the models out of the building using the access points if room is available, or emergency diembark if the enemies are blocking it. The building now becomes both difficult and dangerous terrain. You either leave the building there or replace with a suitable wreckage marker both players agree on.

If an explodes result follow the same rules as explodes in a vehicle. Replace it with a difficult terrain crater and the unit must be placed in the crate as per the explodes rules.

If you plan to use occupiable buildings in a game, I strongly recommended to have the wreck and craters to go with it.

[JxKxR]

In warhammer 6th I would really like to see them make more rules involving terrain. They need to make another chart to roll on for destroying terrain, like if you take a flamer to some woods you should be able to burn the woods away and replace with LOS blocking smoke. Why would a wrecked result flush guys out of a ruined building? There should be a way that a carnafex could rip out a section of wall to make a door. I also think if there are guys on multiple levels in a building and it gets destroyed the guys in the top should take some kind of hit modifier to represent them falling further.