Marine Plasma Assassination Squad- Decisions, Decisions

[Bigred]

OK gang here's my challenge.

As my Lysander - termy army (see below) has evolved I am seeing a consistent problem.

I have enough mobility with rhinos and pods to move about, and can project a lot (10+) of high strength 48 inch fire downrange to deal or degrade enemy vehicles. I have several template options and ton of bolterfire to deal with masses, but there is a chink in the armor:

I'm having serious problems dealing with the "deathstar" assault units that several armies can field. In many cases the issue is either through transports or speed, I will only get 1 good turn of shooting before they are into my lines, and my massed small arms aren't cutting it.

So I need a relatively cheap throwaway squad (transport if we can squeeze it in) in the range of near 200pts that can put down the hurt on an AP:2 squad of infantry in a single firing phase.

Options please.

Here is my list so far:


Lysander
Libby
-termy armor, SS
-gate, nullzone

10x termys
-dual cyclones
-chainfist

dread
-MM, SB, DCCW

tac squad (10)
-MM, MG, PF
-pod, beacon


tac squad (10)
-MM, MG, PF
-pod


tac squad (10)
-LC,FL
-rhino

tac squad (10)
-LC,FL
-rhino

landspeeder
-typhoon, HF

landspeeder
-typhoon, HF

General idea is to drop the dread and shave some points here and there to squeeze in the assassination squad.

[Schnitzel]

I think a Drop Pod'd Dread is probably the best way to go on this.... Its fairly precise, and very deadly. As a throw away unit, it will definitely do its job right. I use a similar tactic with my BA lists.

[Image]

Unless the dread has a pod, that MM isn't doing too much for the first couple of turns. If you decide to keep him, go for the dual Twin linked auto cannons, or drop him altogether. Everything else is much more mobile than he is, so he doesn't fit in quite as well.

Giving the dread a pod isn't a bad idea, but a single shot from it's MM isn't something you should count on as you're only hitting on 3+s. Podding him in will be an extra shot with those melta gun tac squads, but being so forward with them really means you need to neutralize any threats to them.

[brains]

Go with a min sternguard squad with a heavy bolter razorback and combi-plasma all round. its only 195, comes with a bit of long range fire, and is a perfect fire and forget unit. You'll probably only get off one round of shooting, so why not make the most of it?

To do the kind of ninja/Mossad/Jack Bauer assassination thing you want, you need everything to happen as soon as possible. Tank shock the unit in question with the razorback. If the unit is worth its points (hopefully more than 195) it'll wreck your razoback. At which point, your sternguard squad will be in rapid fire range during your shooting phase. Open fire, and hope for the best. If the deathstar is still alive, it will probably assault the sternguard, which will either A, die off, allowing you to shoot the survivors with something else, B, barely hang on, allowing you to either counter assault and win, or run away from the unit, leaving it without targets, C, the sternguard win, and can provide fire support until something else kills them.

The best part that with the sternguard's special ammo, they take down heavier things with high toughness or bad armor saves, like nobs, fiends, thunderwolves, and ogryns.

[Bigred]

Yeah brains, I'm thinking along those lines as well. I've been mulling over the sternguard option or the command squad option with 4xplasma and the apoth.

But I'm thinking the special issue ammo tips it in favor of the SG

[AirHorse]

For a little over 200pts you can take two vindicators. I know they arent going to get their shots off quite as easily as sternguard in drop pods, but they are terrifyingly powerful vs 2+ saves, feel no pain and multiple wounds. You also can cause some serious fear with them too, perhaps getting you more turns to bring your other firepower to bear on the unit thats causing you bother while they try to avoid getting a pie plate of doom in their face.

[Sir Biscuit]

First, I would recommend turning those Lascannons into multi-meltas. They're ten points cheaper, and they're drop podding in, so it's not like they're gonna be out of range. 24" is plenty far.

I'm surprised actually, a 200 point unit that is good at killing death stars? TH/SS termies are exactly that. When backed by Null Zone, there are exactly 0 things in this game that fight them and come out on top. It's not shooty, but honestly, you don't really need them to be. They're also great late game objective-contesters, especially when you have a gate libby, which you do.

Any 200 point shooting unit powerful enough to drop and hurt a deathstar won't be able to finish it, but if you really need it ranged, I think these are your best options:

Sternguard (190)
+5 combi-plasma
+Rhino
+Dozer Blade

Command Squad (215)
+4 Plasma Guns
+Rhino
+Dozer Blade

Putting the command squad on bikes makes them very scary, (relentless plasma is awesome) but puts you up another 50 points.

Honestly, 200 points is way to much to spend on any throwaway unit, especially in an elite list already pressed for useful bodies. The TH/SS are, without a doubt, your best option.

[therealjohnny5]

and not to mention the command squad's FNP probably wouldn't serve you well against a deathstar unit since whatever damage makes them deathstar, likely ignores FNP. Another advantage of the TH|SS Termies is they can DS in by the LB Dpod you have., i am a fan of Sternguard for the shooty option though. but they won't be as resilient however they get their damage done in your shooting phase and the Termies have to wait until Initiative 1, so a solid Deathstar unit can mash them up pretty bad possibly first.

[Schnitzel]

Screw the Rhinos's, drop pod 'em. They're meant to be in the enemy lines on turn one to mitigate the threat of your other units. SG in DPs is a better way to go than SG in Rhinos... And on second thought, better than a DP Dread come to think of it.... Its a matter of prefference really though.

[DarkLink]

I'm surprised actually, a 200 point unit that is good at killing death stars? TH/SS termies are exactly that. When backed by Null Zone, there are exactly 0 things in this game that fight them and come out on top.

There are some things that can kill the Terminators before they get to hit, and the opponent may be able to dump speedbumps in the way of the Terminators, making it difficult to get into combat. Something that can do driveby plasma-ing could very well damage things the Terminators couldn't, or would have trouble hurting.

[Bigred]

Ok gang, so I've narrowed it down to three choices and will begin testing. From cheapest to priciest , my options are:

- vindicator
- 5 man sternguard (4xcombi-plasma, rhino)
- 5 man assault termys (THs)

I think the sweetspot will be the Sternguard, but the Vindicator will do while I get the squad painted. I can't play with unpainted stuff after all :)

I'm thinking the general rule will be the assassination squad shadows the Lysander termy squad in my center using cover. It serves as a psychological deterrant (the vindicator is probably the best there), then rushes forward and slaps down any threats while the rest of the unit retrogrades to safety (the sternguard or termys are probably better at the actual killing of stuff)

[Sir Biscuit]

Here's the thing. You already bring a lot of ranged firepower, but your melee contingent is only one unit. I suppose Lysander can break off, but then you lose the fantastic bolter drill on your termies.

Having a plasma squad to run up and die may sound good, but it's really kind of inefficient. Marines just don't have any units you can throw away. Every squad requires a significant investment to make worthwhile, and putting out a minimum extremely focused unit really hurts your overall list. That's why I don't really like the idea of a plasma sternguard or command squad.

The vindicator won't stop deathstars. It's as simple as that.

The terminators mean that you now have a melee threat all across your army, you can beat to death any death stars, and if your opponent doesn't deal with them they WILL wreak face. Ideally, deploy lysander with the regular termies (to give bolter drill and much increased survivability) and the librarian with the terminators. Assault termies not only act as a great deterrent, left unchecked they are also AWESOME late-game objective contesters when combined with gate.

I think vindicators are good, and sternguard are good, but only if the list is built with them in mind. Unless you want to rework more than just the one squad, I think Assault terminators are your best option.