Combat and Multiple Combat questions

[Umbar]

I have a question regarding the way combats are resolved in the assault phase. Here's the situation.

I have 4 plague marines (P) locked in combat with 1 Terminator(T) with a power fist. Board position looks like this after my assault phase ends. (tjhe position isn't perfect but it'll convey the idea.

_T
P P P P

On my opponents turn, he assaults My plague marines with a squad of tactical marines (M). Board looks like this after assault moves are done but before combat begins:

_T____MMM
P P P P MMM
_____MMMM

My opponent proceeds to resolve combat. He says that he can choose to resolve the tactical marines combat first. During that combat his terminator will not strike and any of my plague marines that want to attack the tactical squad can do so.

The way I understand the rules, this is a multiple combat, but it's still only 1 combat. Everything engaged with my plague marines goes in initiative order, directing attacks as described in the multiple combat section of the rulebook. So the tactical marines would go on init 4, attacking my plague marines. Plague marines would go on 3, directing attacks per multiple combat rules, and then the terminator would go initiative 1.

Here are the only rules I could find that were even slightly relevant:

There may be several separate assaults being fought simultaneously in different parts of the battlefield. If this is the case, the player who's turn it is can chose the order in which to resolve the combats, completing each combat before moving on to the next one, and so on until all combats are resolved.


Combats that involve more than two units are called 'multiple combats'


When determining assault results in a multiple combat, total up the number of wounds inflicted by each side to see which side is the winner. Every unit on the losing side has to check their Morale (they all use the same penalty, as described int he Morale section).... (stuff about sweeping advances) ... After assault resolution, all units that were involved in that multiple combat must make pile-in moves towards enemies that fought in that combat.

My only argument is that my opponents idea of how to resolve combat makes a lot of these rules I listed above make no sense.

[crazyredpraetorian]

You have it right. Attacks are made according to Initiative. Your opponent also, was doing it right. I think his wording was just a little confusing. Remember, anytime there are more than two units involved it IS a multiple combat, Initiative doesn't matter.

[Paul]

If my understanding is correct, he can't "choose" which squads go first, it goes in initiative order.

So you resolve the combat as one large combat, Marines at Init. 4 go first, then Plague Marines at Init. 3, then the Terminator's Powerfist at Init. 1. They have to go in that order, "choosing" or otherwise.

The Plague Marines may choose to strike the Terminator or squad if they are not in Base-to-Base with either. If they ARE in Base-To-Base with one, they have to strike that one. If they're in B-2-B with both, then they can choose.

Once the combat is over, the side that dealt the most unsaved wounds is victorious, and will force either the Plague Marines to take a Leadership test or the Marines and Terminator to take a leadership (they roll separately). Each wound the side lost by is -1 on the test, as with a regular combat.

[Umbar]

Thanks for the quick replies! Here's a follow up question to make sure I'm conveying what I'm thinking:

Assuming that same situation where we've got a terminator and a tactical squad of marines in close combat with plague marines. Everyone lives through the assault and no consolidation or sweeping advances are made.

My assault is up next, and my demon prince assaults his tactical squad and nothing dies. His assault comes up and his chapter master assaults my demon prince. So we've got 5 seperate units locked into a combat that started between the terminators and plague marines.

_T____MMMM
P P P P MMMM
______MMM
_______(DP)(CM)

So that big mess of combat is still 1 combat and everyone in that diagram will go at their initiative order? Of course everyone is restricted by their attack directions per the multiple combat rules.

[entendre_entendre]

yes, 1 combat, & everything will go in int order, but it may take a while to resolve that combat :P
when the RB was refering to 'multiple assaults' it meant that if u had two or more SEPARATE combats going on similtaneously (ie not touching at all) then the player whose turn it is may choose which combat is fought first.

[BuFFo]

I know you didn't ask this particular question, but I will give you my input anyway since this is so close to this subject. If you are doing this already, good, if not, then you learned something :)

In your combat, with the Marines, Plagues and Termie, remember that who attacks who is decided at the very start of combat, and NOT at each initiative step.

That means, if the Marines wipe out enough Plague Marines so that when it is time for the Terminator to strike, even if there are NO Plague Marines within 2" of the terminator, the terminator still gets his full attacks against the Plagues.

In 4th edition you decided who attacks who at each initiative step, but in 5th, this is decided at the start of combat adn WILL NOT change under any circumstance during the course of the combat.

[Zigmunth]

That means, if the Marines wipe out enough Plague Marines so that when it is time for the Terminator to strike, even if there are NO Plague Marines within 2" of the terminator, the terminator still gets his full attacks against the Plagues.

In 4th edition you decided who attacks who at each initiative step, but in 5th, this is decided at the start of combat adn WILL NOT change under any circumstance during the course of the combat.

Ha! didn't know that one... One learns a thing each day...

[EmperorEternalXIX]

Very big one.

All through 4th, Power Fist sergeants often stood motionless as enemies slightly backed away and avoided their swings. Even weirder still, you couldn't attempt a sweep if there were no more models in base contact. Removing a handful of models would let you avoid sweeps completely.

This is part of why the rule was changed in 5th, I wager.

[Inquisitor Lord Haestus]

Very big one.

All through 4th, Power Fist sergeants often stood motionless as enemies slightly backed away and avoided their swings. Even weirder still, you couldn't attempt a sweep if there were no more models in base contact. Removing a handful of models would let you avoid sweeps completely.

This is part of why the rule was changed in 5th, I wager.

That and the abuse sweeping advances took with players who would roll up a whole guard/eldar line by sweeping advance into another close combat. The 5th edition rules prevent the sweeping advance into close combat, but still allows you to consolidate your troops (d6 inches) but have to stop short of contact.