How tall should a Warlord be?

[gwensdad]

I was having an "interesting" talk today with another player about how tall a Warlord titan should be. He insists that the one built for our group is "way too big" and that a Warlord should only be (wait for it) 24" tall. I of course think that's WAAAAAY too small and the one we've got is just about right.

So how tall do you, the reader of this thread, think one should be?

[LadasN]

Well, how tall is the one you currently have? Just so we can get an idea of what your thinking here.

[miteyheroes]

In all the accounts I've read they're about 30 to 60m high. Considering people are less than 2m high and are about an inch tall, that means that 24 inches sounds about right?

Dies Iraes, a fraking Imperator Titan (the largest type) is 43m tall according to "False Gods".

There's scale diagrams in the Apocalypse Rulebook.

Also compared to other Forgeworld titans 24 inches sounds good. Warhounds are about 11 inches, Reavers are 16 inches, Eldar Revenants are 12 inches. Warlords being around twice the size of Warhounds sounds right?

This one is 28 inches and he admits it's a bit too big: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/03/showcase-40k-scale-warlord-titan.html

[gwensdad]

OK, I thought I posted it somewhere before but now can't figure out where (hate it when that happens)
So, I re-uploaded it to a site and...

http://web5.twitpic.com/img/164810987-badd2754c2c9eb8f9d11804fac476f84.4c9695f0-scaled.jpg

I need to talk the owner into letting me do a full "photo shoot" of it sometime, just to show how it was built.
Those are Imperial Guard (well, Skitarri) at the base of it.

[Tynskel]

If you look at the diagram in the Apocalypse book, the height comes somewhere between 24-28 inches. Anything bigger than that and you are talking about Imperator. People make the Warlord wwaayyyyyy too big. I usually see them between 3-4 feet. Maybe it's to abuse its rules...

[gwensdad]

If you look at the diagram in the Apocalypse book, the height comes somewhere between 24-28 inches. Anything bigger than that and you are talking about Imperator. People make the Warlord wwaayyyyyy too big. I usually see them between 3-4 feet. Maybe it's to abuse its rules...

Now here's a thought-is the 28" to the top of the carapace or does that include the height the guns add to it. In the above picture those guns add a good 3" (maybe 4", I need to measure someday) to the titan.

[Gotthammer]

The issue is in the Epic games Titans are much, much bigger - the original Adeptus Titanicus Warlord scales to around 75ft tall to the carapace in the real world, or around 6' in 40k. The Warhounds and Reavers would be about twice as big too.

So yeah, their scale is somewhat flexible.

[Lane]

Titan size, model wise at least, is one of the longest debates in the hobby.

Armorcast built their Titans proportional to the Epic models. IIRC the scale factor was about 6.3, their tanks were about 5.8 times the Epic model. These models were done while the RT ground scale of 1" = 2m was fresh in peoples minds.

The Titan Legions book for (2nd ed?) Epic gives sizes for Titans ranging from 10m to 25m. Assume 10m for a Knight and 25m for a Warlord. Imperators are listed at 25-40m.

I can not find my 1st Ed Epic Codex Titanicus but IIRC they listed Warlord Titans in the 80-100 ft range.

Artwork is an even worse reference for scale.

There is a picture of a Reaver where 2-3 story ruins barely reach the bottom of the leg armor.

A picture of an Imperator with troops leaving the leg shows the knee being about 30m up (15 x man height)

Another titan, IIRC a current (battle mech style) Warlord shows a close view of the end of a weapon. On the end is an access hatch and ladder. Assuming the hatch is 6ft the gun alone is 30ft high.

-----

Epic models, measured to top of carapace (since weapon size varies)
Reaver 1.75"
Warlord 2.0" (original plastic kit)
Warlord ?? (battle mech version)

Armorcast Reaver 11" to caracace

Forgeworld Reaver ?? to carapace, IIRC 12-14"


-------

Based on these measurements the original (turtle shell) Warlord should only be about 12-15" depending on which version of the Reaver is used.

IIRC the prototype (turtle shell) Warlord for Armorcast was 18-20 tall at the top of the weapon.

[Lane]

...d 75ft tall to the carapace in the real world, or around 6' in 40k...


I think your math is a bit off. 40 K is not 1/12 scale, closer to 1/56th scale.

[miteyheroes]

The issue is in the Epic games Titans are much, much bigger - the original Adeptus Titanicus Warlord scales to around 75ft tall to the carapace in the real world, or around 6' in 40k. The Warhounds and Reavers would be about twice as big too.

So yeah, their scale is somewhat flexible.

I don't know where you're getting that from, your maths is crazy.

Using your figures a Warlord is 75ft. That's about 10 Space Marines high. 10 x a Space Marines model's height = 10-12 inches, about a foot. Not 6 feet! They're probably 6 feet tall in Inquisitor scale, but not in 40k scale!

Incidentally I think Warlords are taller than 75ft, more like 2 feet / 24 inches tall on the tabletop.

[eldargal]

We had a big debate about this when my brother started planning his Warlords, in the end we decided based on the contradictory evidence Warlords could be anywhere between 28 and 36 inches, with Imperators starting at 48. We assumed the height differential was due to different patterns, but that isn't based on any fluff that I can recall.

Edit: This is just what we decided upon, I doubt we will truly have an objective measure until Forgeworld get their finger out and release their Warlord.

[SotonShades]

When I started building my Warlord, I based it purely off the scale diagram in the Apocolypse book. Given that the Warhound, which is about 10.5" accorind to FW, comes up to the knee of the Warlord and is oddly about a third of the height I established that the Warlord should be around 30". I designed it to be 32" ans that was easier with the materials I had availible but somehow during the build it grew.

Now my titan stands at around 42" (plus banners), or at least it would if it weren't squatting slightly.

Given that each Warlord is more or less unique in it's archetechture (conforming less to standard patterns than Warhounds, which are built in far larger numbers) I think the exact size is not too important. In game terms, I've heard talk of people trying to get an additional advantage by making it taller so the weapons have a better line of sight. The arm weapons on my Warlord are approximately 15" off the table and can honestly say I've never had a problem with LOS for them, so any higher on your average gaming table, i.e. one not set up for titan battles with impossibly tall terrain, would seem to be a bit of a waste.

Personnally I think it comes down to this; Does it look awesome? Exact dimensions are relatively unimportant. If you stick to this measure when making Custom Builds you generally don't go too far wrong ;)

[TSINI]

At a UK gamesday several years ago I remember there being a Huge battle raging with 8 Titans (4 imperial, 4 chaos) each titan was at least 4 feet tall, and standing on a long gaming table. they towered above everything else in the arena

the titans were obviously scratchbuilt, but they were fantasticly detailed.

a large game of 40k was being fought beneath the titans' feet, who would occasionally move and squash tanks and troops regardless of allegience, not to mention the insane amount of firepower being dropped from them.

seing as the warhound is 12" tall, and the reaver is 18", i'd go for a maximum of 48" for the largest titans, if not for fluff, then simply for gaming reasons, physically fitting them on the table is going to be an issue.

[SotonShades]

seing as the warhound is 12" tall, and the reaver is 18", i'd go for a maximum of 48" for the largest titans, if not for fluff, then simply for gaming reasons, physically fitting them on the table is going to be an issue.

That's very true. Mine has a 12" long by 15" wide base (never need a tape measure for movement at least...) for stability. A lot of games it does a shuffle of maybe about 3" total simply because if you have enough cover for the rest of the models in the game, you almost have too much for the titan. Like the idea of the squishing the models underfoot though; might have to incororate that into my next Apoc game

[eldargal]

That is actually one reason why I think 36" is ideal, it leaves the upper limits of practical model size, 48", free for the larger Emperor class titans and maintains a clear size differential between them that anything in the 40s would not.

[miteyheroes]

Given that each Warlord is more or less unique in it's archetechture (conforming less to standard patterns than Warhounds, which are built in far larger numbers) I think the exact size is not too important.

...

Personnally I think it comes down to this; Does it look awesome? Exact dimensions are relatively unimportant. If you stick to this measure when making Custom Builds you generally don't go too far wrong ;)

I thought Warlords were the most numerous type of Titan by far, outnumbering the others combined? Odd. That's just the impression I always got: Warlords are the mainstay of Titan Legions.

Although yes, I agree that looking awesome is a very important consideration!

[miteyheroes]

That is actually one reason why I think 36" is ideal, it leaves the upper limits of practical model size, 48", free for the larger Emperor class titans and maintains a clear size differential between them that anything in the 40s would not.

The Dies Irea (an Imperator) in False Gods is 43m high. If an Imperator model is 48" high that means that 1 m = about 1 inch. This is closer to Inquisitor Scale than Truescale or 40k Scale...

I'd expect a Warlord to be between 24" and 36", an Imperator to be 36" to 48". The smaller end of those measurements would be 40k scale, the larger measurements would be heroic/art scale.

[eldargal]

That was a pre-Heresy titan and may not have had the cathedral on its back, though. Note I'm using size ranges, up to 48" for an Imperator, up to 36" for a Warlord, no reason why Imperators won't vary in size also. According to Lexicanum the Apocalypse datsheet has the Imperator 39" tall.


The Dies Irea (an Imperator) in False Gods is 43m high. If an Imperator model is 48" high that means that 1 m = about 1 inch. This is closer to Inquisitor Scale than Truescale or 40k Scale...

I'd expect a Warlord to be between 24" and 36", an Imperator to be 36" to 48". The smaller end of those measurements would be 40k scale, the larger measurements would be heroic/art scale.

[Gotthammer]

Like I said - original AT titans had a rather variable scale:

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r314/Gotthammer/40k/pic804395.jpg

Very big - they'd be like, 250ft tall? Marines are barely the height of teh tip of their toes.


Titans are immense fighting machines, mechanical humanoid
warriors up to 100 feet tall.

...

Battle Titans stand between 40 and 80 feet tall.

...

Emperor Titans are taller – some 70 to 100 feet tall – and
considerably bulkier.

That's from the Adeptus Titanicus rulebook.

[Lane]

More on the inconsistent size descriptions.

There are several mentions in books of troops climbing around inside legs and at least one where they are in the torso and move several stories. Even at RT ground scale that would be 1.5" per story, minimum 4.5" tall torso and probably double that.


The Scale Creep on miniatures creates another problem. When the Epic models and Armorcast Titans were created the troop minis were smaller than current. Most troops are now roughly 1.3 times as tall as RT era minis.

IMHO building a Titan to miniature scale, unless using the low end sizes I mentioned earlier, would be insane for tabletop use. Even the Forgeworld Reaver is undersized for minis scale and it looks damn impressive on the table.

[miteyheroes]

That was a pre-Heresy titan and may not have had the cathedral on its back, though. Note I'm using size ranges, up to 48" for an Imperator, up to 36" for a Warlord, no reason why Imperators won't vary in size also. According to Lexicanum the Apocalypse datsheet has the Imperator 39" tall.

False Gods contains the paragraph:

Hot fear seethed in her veins as the mist before them cleared and she saw a huge mechanical giant before them, its proportions massive and armoured. Saw-toothed bastions and towers filled her vision, massive cannons and a terrible, snarling face of dark iron

Sounds like a back-cathedral to me, although I see that it's not totally unambiguous.

Titans in pictures have long been drawn completely ridiculously gigantic. I guess the Warlord models that people have made that are over 36" tall are Art Scale rather than a more realistic scale...