DH and SOB Codex download

[synack]

Seems the codex'es are up for download on the GW site. You'll need to login to be able to download them.

DH Codex (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=9800044a&utm_source=VoxCaster&utm_medium=twitter&utm_term=new-article&utm_content=new-article&utm_campaign=VoxCaster-New-Articles)

SOB Codex (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=9800045a&utm_source=VoxCaster&utm_medium=twitter&utm_term=new-article&utm_content=new-article&utm_campaign=VoxCaster-New-Articles)

[rbryce]

no differences at first glance, rhinos still cost a fortune, bits of wargear still defunct. just no fluff, so like the european online dexs then. oh well, mayhap the repackaged boxsets will be different.

[Xzarol]

Well, that's lovely....ugh. I really wish Games Workshop would pick up the pace on updating. I was really rooting for the online PDFs to be midgrades or something. Alas, my Grey Knights stay packed away for a while longer. v.v

[eldargal]

It was always going to be the old codices up, I'm not sure why there was the expectation of an update. That is coming next year with the new codices.;)

[Xzarol]

Oh, I knew it was probably going to be this. It's just...one can hope and dream, right? It's been a long time since my Knights have even attempted combat versus these new fifth edition monsters. I guess they can wait a bit longer.

Absence makes the heart grow fonder, yeah? ;)

[MVBrandt]

In a supremely unsurprising move, it appears the allies page of the DH codex has been removed, taking mystics and tarot away from Imperial Guard.

SoB can still ally up and vice versa, of course ... but witch hunters don't get mystics or the tarot.

[rbryce]

It was always going to be the old codices up, I'm not sure why there was the expectation of an update. That is coming next year with the new codices.;)

i know, but it only takes 1/2 an hour to change a points cost to bring it in line with newer costs, though i guess its easier to copy/paste. a bonus of this though is itll help with all those irritating mid-game rules "discussions". seriously, my flamers are AP1 on a roll of 6! says it in black and white! i dont care that they dont roll to hit! i have a white dwarf here that actually mentions this tactic! FFS I DONT CARE IF YOU THINK (practically) RENDING FLAMERS ARE BROKEN!!! (at this point exorcists, not the missiles fly, without having to roll a D6 for number of shots). at least i can save mb's by having the book already. ;)

[daboarder]

.......and GW just failed.....EPICLY!

They had a clear oportunity here to throw together a quick updated pdf the same as they did for both blood angels AND warriors of chaose and instead they decided to merely PDF the same old stuff only this time they removed the only thing that could make the DH codex competative. This is NOT a generic GW rant, I like the way the company has been moving again (with exception of fluff, and the Tyranid codex but thats personal) and was pleased imensly by spearhead and the quick faqs for SW, Skaven and the majority of the other 5th ed codeci but this time I'm actually embarassed for them.

Poor form GW poor form.

PS: the DH one is missing its allied rules, make of that what you will

[synack]

Wow, you get codex'es for free and all you guys can ***** about is how it's not updated. There was never going to be an update now, new codex'es will be released at a later stage.

Just be thankful you can now download them for free and be done with it.

Dunno why I expected more from ppl on the interwebz.

[daboarder]

You mean the codeci that 95% of us already own?
The one thats lacking some of the key rules in the hard copy?
Or the one that has rules and weapon stats from 3rd ed because GW couldn't be bothered to update them like they did for BA and WoC?


OH wait silly me you mean all of the above! You don't work for GW do you?

[eldargal]

We are getting a new codex for GK soonish and SoB next year, they aren't going to waste any of their paid employees time on a roughshod attempt at bringing some very, very old codices up to date. This was not a lost opportunity, this was Anglosphere GW putting up some ill-selling codices on their website to save on a reprint, as has already been done in Europe and, I believe, Japan.


.......and GW just failed.....EPICLY!

They had a clear oportunity here to throw together a quick updated pdf the same as they did for both blood angels AND warriors of chaose and instead they decided to merely PDF the same old stuff only this time they removed the only thing that could make the DH codex competative. This is NOT a generic GW rant, I like the way the company has been moving again (with exception of fluff, and the Tyranid codex but thats personal) and was pleased imensly by spearhead and the quick faqs for SW, Skaven and the majority of the other 5th ed codeci but this time I'm actually embarassed for them.

Poor form GW poor form.

PS: the DH one is missing its allied rules, make of that what you will

[Herald of Nurgle]

I think the only thing we can pray for is a mass errata with pt changes. No chance on massive rule changes so that at the least would satisfy my urge for the Inquisition!

[daboarder]

eldargal, if they can do an update for WoC that lasted, what 4 months? Why cant they do an update for 6 months for DH and a year for WH? I dont want much, I just want a Storm shield to be a storm shield and a force weapon to be a force weapon and so on, its not much really.
As stated before there is a HUGE difference between the upload of the french codex, which is the complete codex fluff and all. And the upload of this botched english version.

[synack]

http://akamai.onelargeprawn.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2009/scary_sketches_16.jpg

[rbryce]

lol, anyone know what the pattern on that wallpaper is?^ its rather psychedelic. i guess a lot of us feel shortchanged a bit. im just happy because now other players can get a copy of the dex without charge, so there is no excuse for not understanding the rules in the dex. A lot of players seem not to know what the rules are, or what they do as the army isnt one of the main lines from GW, so games can be rather awkward, interrupted by rule discussions that would be unneccesary if other players could get to know them. one of the hang-ups of an old dex. im just glad i havent come across a black templar player, cos i have no idea what rules they have! and would like to know more.

[daboarder]

nice work synack, can you show me the childish whining in my posts? Because I can show you the logical arguments that I've presented and the disclaimer in my first post that you've clearly ignored.

edit: actually Synack I have a question for you. Is this pdf a codex update? if so am I then entitled to be upset about a piss poor update? OR is it a poor upload where there were simple editing mistakes? sure if its the later then thats understandable and im not fussed as I already own the codeci but despite that I'd like you to show me where it rules either way.

[HsojVvad]

Codex is for free online at GW? I thought everyone already had those codex on PDF already. :p

[Melissia]

So for those that are gonna say this overrules the physical codex, does that mean Grey Knights can field nothing but terminators now because they have no FoC?

[daboarder]

So for those that are gonna say this overrules the physical codex, does that mean Grey Knights can field nothing but terminators now because they have no FoC?

I take everything back, BEST UPDATE EVER!

see i can be reasonable.

[Grey2321]

So for those that are gonna say this overrules the physical codex, does that mean Grey Knights can field nothing but terminators now because they have no FoC?

Don't forget that they removed the definition of "Daemons" in the codex, so how about everything ever is a daemon?

[Lerra]

I don't think this overwrites the printed codex. First of all, the vast majority of 40kers are not going to know about this update because it's not well advertised. Secondly, I doubt TOs are going to make people re-write their lists 30 minutes before tournament start because few people know that allies were removed from DH. Is the 3rd round of 'ard Boyz even going to disallow allies? I thought the 'ard Boyz rules specifically laid out which allies were acceptable, and it was a larger list than what is normally allowed in the codex.

[gannam]

GW was very chicken **** for not explaining taking out the allies portion of the Codex online.

It was obviously their intent, but they did it in such a way that they are pitting the community against each other.

Shame on them.

[DarkLink]

They had a clear oportunity here to throw together a quick updated pdf the same as they did for both blood angels AND warriors of chaose

What's the point, if a new GK codex is roughly 6 months away?


I think the only thing we can pray for is a mass errata with pt changes. No chance on massive rule changes so that at the least would satisfy my urge for the Inquisition!

This was their chance to do that. If they didn't do it here, they probably won't do it.


I thought the 'ard Boyz rules specifically laid out which allies were acceptable, and it was a larger list than what is normally allowed in the codex.

It did indeed.


GW was very chicken **** for not explaining taking out the allies portion of the Codex online.

It was obviously their intent, but they did it in such a way that they are pitting the community against each other.

Shame on them.

...I think you're reading into this way, way, way too much.

[gannam]

...I think you're reading into this way, way, way too much.[/QUOTE]


I don't think so. Have you been around the forums today? Its obviously causing an uproar. All the IG players are rushing to say it means nothing and everyone else that has gotten abused by them in 5th edition is saying, "ha" finally some justice. Meanwhile, GW will not comment on it and we will sit here and argue for months.

[MadCowCrazy]

"In other, non-Warhammer related news, we've added both the Witch Hunters: Codex and the Daemonhunters: Codex to the Astronomican. You can now download both of these for free. This is great news for all 40K fans so tomorrow I'll drag myself away from the Warhammer world and talk a bit more about them."

Im hoping this means they will tell us something about codex updates but I doubt it.

About DH lacking a FOC, cant find one for WH either. Does this mean I could field 11 Exorcists in a 1500 point game? :D or have 20 Canonesses join 1 group of battle sisters or seraphim with +2 armour save, blessed weapons and inferno pistols? That would be 40 Faith Points so you could bring alot of hurt as well :D

[rbryce]

i think it means that theyve realised that they made a mistake by leaving a page out and are gonna fix it tonight, in the meantime they distract us with more WHFB stuff.

[revnow]

Keep in mind that the new update makes at lot of things really wonky by RAW.

- removal of the allies rules

BUT

- no definition of a Grey Knight, which by raw now means that GK landraiders and Dreadnoughts have the GK special rules.

- as mentioned above no force org, so field whatever you like!

In seriousness this will create some conflicts because there doesn't seem to be enough changes to nullify the hardcopies. TOs are going to need to put in some work.

[thecactusman17]

I notice that Celestine is a little better. Martyrdom by other units is now only stripped away if the D6 faith point loss reduces total faith to below zero. Not certain if this alone justifies her points cost, but at least she's no longer a massive liability on the table.

[HsojVvad]

So no allies rules now. Interesting now. So how is it goingto be played. Since this is the updated codex, that would mean our paper codex is oboslete now. Just like how the 2nd printing over rides the first printing.

But it's a moot point because I don't think anyone would really insist that you can't use your paper codex. And if you ever really met a person like that, would you really want to game with that person? Just say you don't know nothing about it, and will have to download it "next" time, and if next time comes around say you can't download it, because GW will not let you. If you don't sign in you can't get it LOL

[DarkLink]

About DH lacking a FOC, cant find one for WH either. Does this mean I could field 11 Exorcists in a 1500 point game? :D or have 20 Canonesses join 1 group of battle sisters or seraphim with +2 armour save, blessed weapons and inferno pistols? That would be 40 Faith Points so you could bring alot of hurt as well :D

That's enough faith points for a permanent 2+ save. Just take them with Blessed weapons and 2+ and Inferno pistols, maybe a few jump packs, and 4-5 Exorcists, then stick all the cannonesses into units of 4-5 or so to conserve faith points (one faith point will give the whole unit an invulnerable)

[thecactusman17]

I expect that if anything comes out to make this 100% official (or at least aspects of it like "no allies") then we are going to see a prompt update to FAQs for either both Hunters codexes or all Imperial codexes.

[Melissia]

I bet we aren't gonna see jack ****.

[Galadren]

I bet we aren't gonna see jack ****.

This.

[daboarder]

What's the point, if a new GK codex is roughly 6 months away?


Darklink dont ignore the rest of the post. firstly there are also the WH to consider and secondly if they can do it for WoC why not us?

[DarkLink]

Darklink dont ignore the rest of the post. firstly there are also the WH to consider and secondly if they can do it for WoC why not us?

Ok. What's the point, if there's a GK codex coming out in 6 months, and a Sisters codex coming out within 6 months of that?


Edit:
I don't see why people seem to think that allies are illegal, now. I happen to own a codex that allows me to use allies. GW saw fit to upload part of that codex online, as they no longer sell it. That doesn't change anything about the rules I have to follow with.

[Aenir]

If I had the Printed dex, which takes precidence? (I dont, just asking)

[daboarder]

I don't see why people seem to think that allies are illegal, now. I happen to own a codex that allows me to use allies. GW saw fit to upload part of that codex online, as they no longer sell it. That doesn't change anything about the rules I have to follow with.

Ok if we're opperating on the idea that this is NOT an update in any sense then thats fine with me and I'll keep using the codex I bought until they do an army update. Most of the comments I've made are based on the idea that this is indeed an update. I'm pretty sure I stated that in my first post, but it could be that that was a different forum.

[Norseman]

The allies rules are in all the other language books....It is obviously a screw up.

This was a courtesy release because they didn't have the sales to do another print run, they had to have it out for the limited demand and to support their models. Simple dollars and cents business decision. Unfortunately GW have made it company policy to not have a professional editorial staff so the screw ups will continue.

If someone said I couldn't have allies, when I was holding the most recent printed codex for my DH Army, I would simply say well I guess that you lose then. If you get to make up rules so will I.

Stop panicking people.

[Melissia]

Ok if we're opperating on the idea that this is NOT an update in any sense then thats fine with me and I'll keep using the codex I bought until they do an army update. Most of the comments I've made are based on the idea that this is indeed an update. I'm pretty sure I stated that in my first post, but it could be that that was a different forum.

Oh please, it's not an update. It doesn't even include all the errata. That's right, you still need the FAQ PDF.

[Sandman2663]

Read the first page of both codices. Right side middle of the page. Both WH and DH can still take allies, it is integral to their role in 40K. The Ally section was removed for ambiguity.

[Old_Paladin]

If I had the Printed dex, which takes precidence?

The printed book and any official errata in the FAQ;
unless there is a version for a newer edition (like blood angels did).

This isn't a 5th edition upgrade (or downgrade); it's an incomplete version of the 3rd edition.
If you have the version that includes all the pages, you get to use all the pages.

If you take it for free off the website; then you don't get the extras that the people that spent money on it get. It's also a heads up for what to expect when the new edition codex is released.

[Kazzigum]

I bet we aren't gonna see jack ****.

Sadly, I totally agree.

[razcalking]

I don't see any reason why the pdfs uploaded to their site would take precedence over the printed version.

I'd put money on the missing page just being an oversight on their part.

[BuFFo]

You have a choice;

Use the printed Codices or the .pdf Codices.

I'd stick with the printed Codices for obvious reasons...

[Melissia]

I paid for my printed codex, and it's not superceded by this crap, so I'm'a use it.

[setsunakai]

interesting enough ive been digging through the other countries dexes and they don't match up for the DH codex

each codex is 25 pages long and of varying sizes

English: No inducting or allies but also missing a FOC chart
Germans: Allow induct but not allies
French: allow inducting and allies and oddly enough has a Heavy 4 Rending assault cannon O-o
Spanish: allows inducting no allies

so its up in the air between using the english codex or following suite with the other dexes and allowing inductees but not allies

for WH they purposely edited out allies in all but the french dex and kept induction which is a sign that that's how they want us to do it

untill otherwise told we should use the online dexes since they are the most recent rendition

as always in a game among friends you can use whichever codex be it the old paper version of the WH dex or the old Craftworld eldar; for tournies just speak with the Tourny organizers

[Melissia]

IE, no change.

[Melissia]

Flag this messageDemonhunters and Witchhunters in the Ardboyz finalsThursday, June 24, 2010 8:44 AM
From: "Brendan Bell" <[email protected]>Add sender to ContactsTo: undisclosed-recipientsHello,

There have been a number of questions regarding Demonhunters and Witchhunters and allies for the 2010 40K Ard Boyz Finals. The Finals will use the printed rules that were used in the first two rounds; you will be able to use allies.

Thanks,
Brendan
Someone got a response about this from GW.

[Ghoulio]

You have a choice;

Use the printed Codices or the .pdf Codices.

I'd stick with the printed Codices for obvious reasons...

For fun games sure, obviously use whichever codex you want...but in tournaments (at least every last one I have been too) you have to use the most recent update/errata/codex available to your specific army. Just because the rules change in a way you don't like or aren't terribly well thought out/written doesn't mean you can't use them. I mean, what you are saying is the same as me saying "The new Tyranid Codex changed my army in a way I don't like since I used to play Nidzilla...so I am just going to use my 4th ed codex instead because I like it better".

I mean, most of this is a moot point anyways if you think about it. GW obviously did it so they don't have to print these books anymore/fix the clearly broken ability to take Mystics in a Guard army or Vulcan in a Sisters list. It really isn't a big deal if you think about it as the main armies really arent that effected. I am sure it also means that the new book is coming out fairly soon (within the first half of next year).

[Melissia]

For fun games sure, obviously use whichever codex you want...but in tournaments (at least every last one I have been too) you have to use the most recent update/errata/codex available to your specific army.

That's simple then. That would be the books and the PDF Errata/FAQs. These aren't an update.

[Ghoulio]

That's simple then. That would be the books and the PDF Errata/FAQs. These aren't an update.

lol, how do you figure? It is the most current version of the codex therefore it must be used (in tournaments of course, which is all I am talking about). I mean clearly the only people that have problems with these updates are guard players that use allies, as (from what I can tell) nothing other then the allies have changed.

[HsojVvad]

Instead of us all bickering with each other, hasn't anyone called the 1 800 number and called GW? Ask them what their view on it is?

Also I do not understand anything. If you are playing IG army, how can you use the DH our WH codex? I thought you have to be playing a DH or WH and then be able to use the IG codex. So what am I missing here? Obviously I am not an IG player and don't know.

[Melissia]

lol, how do you figure? It is the most current version of the codex

Prove it. Prove it's a revision. Prove it's a new version.

You can't, of course, but go ahead and try.

[Old_Paladin]

Also I do not understand anything. If you are playing IG army, how can you use the DH our WH codex? I thought you have to be playing a DH or WH and then be able to use the IG codex. So what am I missing here? Obviously I am not an IG player and don't know.

There are two rules in the allies sections of the '-hunters' codexes; one is for inducting troops [which means a '-hunters' players is able to use troops from other imperial armies] the other section are rules allowing units from a '-hunters' codex to be used in a normal imperial army.
The two rules mean that the transfer can work both ways. And not just for IG, ANY imperial army can use the rules (IG just seem to find it more useful).

[Melissia]

An IG or SM army can include 0-1 HQ, 0-1 Elites, 0-2 Troops, and/or 0-1 Fast Attack from the DH or WH codices.

[Lerra]

I mean clearly the only people that have problems with these updates are guard players that use allies, as (from what I can tell) nothing other then the allies have changed.

Actually, from what I've seen, the people who are most bothered by this change are Daemonhunter players who are now missing a good chunk of their codex (including some Grey Knight special rules). IG players will still be competitive without their cheap (and easily replaced) mystic squad. They lose a toy, but they'll still be one of the most competitive codices. DH players are crippled by this change, though, especially players who were using Space Marines or Guard as their main codex with heavy use of allies.

I play a space marine army with ~750 points of radical inquisition allies. I just bought a new chimera for my allies last week. I'm missing a very substantial part of my army without the allies rules, and I don't care to buy another 1250 points of inquisition just to make a playable list. I like my mix of rogue space marines led by a radical inquisitor.

A lot of SM players locally ally in a squad of Grey Knight Terminators or a squad of power-armored Grey Knights. The rules for both of those alliances are well balanced, imo, and I haven't seen people complain about it before. If you get rid of the mystics, are there really any problems with the ally system?

If GW would keep their codices more updated, this wouldn't be an issue at all. Even a quick PDF update at every edition change would allow GW to easily keep allies in the game without unbalancing anything.

[DarkLink]

Actually, from what I've seen, the people who are most bothered by this change are Daemonhunter players who are now missing a good chunk of their codex (including some Grey Knight special rules).

The Ordos Inquisition section of Bolter and Chainsword (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=204873)is furious about all this. They've practically pulled out the pitchforks and torches.

[Melissia]

Lol, people claimed GW's blog post woudl clear things up.

Blog post is just an ad for mediocre stormtrooper models.

[Lerra]

From the blog:


With the Storm Troopers being re-released the other day and the PDFs yesterday, my love for these heroic individuals has been rekindled - I think I'll add a squad of them to my Catachan army (even the Catachans would welcome the help of such fearsome warriors). I've added the Storm Troopers below in case you've been equally inspired.

Whoever wrote GW's blog post seems to think the allies rules are still in effect.

[Melissia]

From Dakka Dakka:



ok. Call the gw store and ask to purchase a copy of the DH or WH codex, they now refer you to the web pdfs as the official codex......Ok, I just did. He told me that the PDFs were missing some stuff and that the printed codex should be used if you have it (which I do).

[DarkLink]

Lol, people claimed GW's blog post woudl clear things up.

Blog post is just an ad for mediocre stormtrooper models.

Yeah, I was hoping for something actually useful, or heaven forbid even some news or something... but at Lerra says, GW says allies are still legal.

[BuFFo]

For fun games sure, obviously use whichever codex you want...but in tournaments (at least every last one I have been too) you have to use the most recent update/errata/codex available to your specific army. Just because the rules change in a way you don't like or aren't terribly well thought out/written doesn't mean you can't use them. I mean, what you are saying is the same as me saying "The new Tyranid Codex changed my army in a way I don't like since I used to play Nidzilla...so I am just going to use my 4th ed codex instead because I like it better".

I mean, most of this is a moot point anyways if you think about it. GW obviously did it so they don't have to print these books anymore/fix the clearly broken ability to take Mystics in a Guard army or Vulcan in a Sisters list. It really isn't a big deal if you think about it as the main armies really arent that effected. I am sure it also means that the new book is coming out fairly soon (within the first half of next year).

Okay, so I will use the .pdf from one of the OTHER languages which still allow allies, and bring my Printed Codex. Only the English one has been wrongly edited without half the book present, while the other languages are all esentially online versions of the printed codex.

So now I am using what you call an 'updated' codex whch is the exact same as my 'non updated' codex.

I can now use allies.

Next time you try to force wrong rulings on people, at least have the courtesy of having FACTS to back up your claim.

[Melissia]

Lol, it looks like GW is actually taking a stance for once.


The new PDF is up for the people who do not have access to buy the codex anymore. The missing Alies section in the U.S format is indeed a mistake. And whichever one the tournament/event organizer says to use is the one that we have to abide by. I know that for our tournaments we will be using the Physical codex and NOT the PDF. I hope this helps!

Thanks!

John Hollingsworth
Customer Service Specialist

[thelonegrif]

Wow, you get codex'es for free and all you guys can ***** about is how it's not updated. There was never going to be an update now, new codex'es will be released at a later stage.
ne with it..

most of these people are probably ******** cause ever since 5th ed came these armies are now either sitting in cases or on display cause they aren't as good as they used to be (ex rhinos 50 versus 35 pts, Hellguns being called hotshot las guns now a days but can't use them as such atleast where i have played) :confused:
im believe in taking a while to test out game mechinics and how certain changes affect play but seriously these guys aren't Michelangelo and every codex doesnt have to be the Sistine Chapel

[thecactusman17]

Actually, thelonegrif, the majority of complaints stem from the fact that there are obvious printing errors in the PDFs. Printing errors which Melissa's post above seems to indicate are being acknowledged (and hopefully soon corrected) by GW.

[thelonegrif]

Actually, thelonegrif, the majority of complaints stem from the fact that there are obvious printing errors in the PDFs. Printing errors which Melissa's post above seems to indicate are being acknowledged (and hopefully soon corrected) by GW.

im mostly just venting my frustrations at the fact that it does take a while for them to release a new codex and other things said in earlier post my GK when i bought them i though as a noob 40k player they would be a force to be reckoned with now reading all the new stuff that has come out they aren't something i would take to a tourney

with a handful codices that have been released there are errors in printing i can except that as long as a FAQ comes out soon after

[HsojVvad]

Just imagine if this ever came into print, say like the WD for those who don't have internet. LOL

[thecactusman17]

Just imagine if this ever came into print, say like the WD for those who don't have internet. LOL
If it came into print the issues would be dedtroyed and recalled. Thats what happens in most publications when there is a major foulup like this.

[MadCowCrazy]

If it came into print the issues would be dedtroyed and recalled.

Lol, do you honestly think GW would recall and destroy anything they make? That would be profit loss and such a thing is not in GWs directory.

[thecactusman17]

Actually, this is pretty common in print publications. They'd almost certainly have to refund every issue sold to either customers from their own stores or to independant retailers from their distributors for a orinting mistake this massive. They'd head it off at the pass, hopefully before actually shipping stuff out and wasting massive amounts of money. If they didn't refund people, they'd generally lose all credibility with their customers.

I used to do this with my mom for tech magazines. If magazines don't sell within a certain amount of time or if they are heavilty misprinted leading to poor sales, most retailers demand refunds from the publisher. This typically involves tearing off the covers (proof of sale) and discarding the magazines. As you can imagine, it was a nice easy way to get the latest gaming and PC magazines and demo disks when I helped my Mom out with it.

[silashand]

FYI, this is the response I got from GW Customer Service:


Gary!

The new PDF is not meant to replace the hard copy but meant to provide a codex for those who cannot purchase one now. Secondly the allies rules in the new PDF were ACCIDENTALY left out of the American version! As far as the blog goes I will do my best to get that sorted out for you guys!

Thanks!

John Hollingsworth
Customer Service Specialist


Please do not delete previous email threads as this will help us serve you better!

Games Workshop
Customer Service
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Contact info:

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Or visit us online at:

http://www.games-workshop.com


Sorry y'all :-).

Cheers, Gary

[HsojVvad]

DH codex page 2 "Another strength of the Daemonhunters army list is the ease with
which it can be integrated with existing armies. If you already
have an Imperial army such as the Space Marines or Imperial
Guard, it can easily be incorporated into the Daemonhunters list."

If allies and what not was taken out, why is this still in the codex. Please explain this one to me :)

[Melissia]

Because they weren't taken out.

[Boreas]

Well, they now took out allies from the WH PDF, both in the English and French version. I guess its not a mistake...

Also:


Good morning,
Thanks for writing in. It's safe to say that always the most recent printing/publication of a document takes precedence. Those hobbyists with older, printed copies of the Daemonhunters codex may still decide to utilize the ally rules in their games though it's likely as the rules are now removed that either new rules will be added to the website in time or that they are simply no longer 'codex legal'

As always, check with your tournament organizer for competitive games and be sure to speak with your opponent if you have any doubts about which rules to use.

Finally, it should be noted that it's likely we will ultimately re-do the Daemonhunters and Witchhunters codices down the track though they remain as competitive as ever in 5th edition Warhammer 40,000 with their current listings and product range.

Thanks again, feel free to contact us again if you have any further queries.


Games Workshop Hobby Service Centre Australia
Phone: 02 9829 6111
Email: [email protected]
Webstore: www.games-workshop.com

The emphasis is mine... GW is the most ridiculous organization I know... Next thing, BP will the us to rejoice because the Gulf of Mexico is now just as Oily as it was naturally meant to be.

Phil

[daboarder]

you should have seen mine boreas, same wording and meaning but that key line...replace ever with never.

[Melissia]

lol, Boreas... so GW austrailia says they're removed, while the American and British GW says they aren't.

[daboarder]

wait boreas is in aus too? where you from mate? but yeah it seems like our GW always has a different idea to the UK one. That was cool when they did their own thing in WD (laius rift anyone?) but it kinda sucks for querries.

[Boreas]

I'm in Canada, we don't have a GW Canada anymore. It's GW America now, which, really, is just GW US. I copied this reply from someone a B&C. I wrote to GW US and UK, but haven't got an answer yet... Time to re-send today...

Phil

[HsojVvad]

I'm in Canada, we don't have a GW Canada anymore. It's GW America now, which, really, is just GW US. I copied this reply from someone a B&C. I wrote to GW US and UK, but haven't got an answer yet... Time to re-send today...

Phil

It's not GW America but GW North America. Same crap different name. :p

Just curious though, it the PDF is suppose to be updated, why not update everything? If you going to remove the Allies rules, why not update the point costs, make them cheaper, update the wargear?

Oh well, just use the excuse you can't have access to the online codex so therefore you can't use them and have to use your paper codex, problem solved.

[Melissia]

Actually I use the "excuse" of "I already have the codex so I'm not going to print it out."

[BuFFo]

Oh well, just use the excuse you can't have access to the online codex so therefore you can't use them and have to use your paper codex, problem solved.

Or use no 'excuse' and just use the printed codex.

Done.

[the jeske]

Actually I use the "excuse" of "I already have the codex so I'm not going to print it out."

well it doesnt work like that or rather it does , but if the Orgs or TO decide that the pdf is most recent printing then it doesnt matter what is the dex you have . if the online version says DH not playable by RAW and WH no allias it does work like that.

[Melissia]

Good thing I don't give a damn what some half-assed TO thinks.

[MadCowCrazy]

Actually I use the "excuse" of "I already have the codex so I'm not going to print it out."

Dont most GW stores also have the policy "NO PRINTED CODICIES ALLOWED!" :D
If I remember correctly they did not even allow people to use the Blood Angels printed codex for tournaments and stores.

[MVBrandt]

From the guy who runs the GT circuit, a quote he sent the way of all the organizers ...

“I would like to clear up some questions regarding the PDF downloads of Codex: Daemonhunters and Codex: Witch Hunters that we recently made available on games-workshop.com.



These downloads do not replace or invalidate the printed codex books that customers may own; we are making the rules to field an army of Daemonhunters or Witch Hunters available, for free, to registered members of the Games Workshop website who do not already own copies of these books. We are not taking anything away from any customers, we are offering something to them. For free.



We have also removed the rules for Allied Space Marines and Inducted Imperial Guard from the PDF downloads. Again, if customers with the printed codex books wish to continue to use these rules from the books they have bought, they can do so. Customers who have the downloadable PDF will be able to use it to build dedicated Daemonhunters and Witch Hunters armies. Customers should use whatever resources are available to them for building armies and playing games, whether those are printed books or PDF downloads.”

[DarkLink]

That makes sense. GW didn't want to just hand out the ally rules for everyone and their mother to abuse. On the other hand, they needed to continue to provide Codices for two armies. Solution, remove the allies rules from the pdfs. That does not mean that allies are removed from the game. It does not mean that the original books are invalidated. You simply have to own a physical codex in order to use allies now, as the allies rules are not for free.

[HsojVvad]

That makes sense. GW didn't want to just hand out the ally rules for everyone and their mother to abuse. On the other hand, they needed to continue to provide Codices for two armies. Solution, remove the allies rules from the pdfs. That does not mean that allies are removed from the game. It does not mean that the original books are invalidated. You simply have to own a physical codex in order to use allies now, as the allies rules are not for free.

If GW didn't want to just hand out the ally rules for everyone and their mother to abuse, how can it be a mistake then, that was "claimed" in an email from GW then?

It's either a mistake, or was done on purpose so "not everyone and thier mother can abuse".

I hate being lied to. Just admit it GW. New people using the online PDF codex don't have allies while people who bought the paper codex do have allies. How hard is that for them to say on thier website that they update almost ever day?

[DarkLink]

I hate being lied to. Just admit it GW. New people using the online PDF codex don't have allies while people who bought the paper codex do have allies. How hard is that for them to say on thier website that they update almost ever day?

I don't think GW gets that this is why people are angry. It's not about getting free content. It's about not bothering to clarify the issues that arise when they do stuff like this.

@GW;
People are like sheep. You need to lead them, sometimes by the nose, if you want any sense of coherency out of your community and customer base.


It's the same issue with GW's attitude towards how loose their rules are. The community as a whole does not want loose rules that you need to house rules, even though GW thinks that's sufficient. Groups like being told what to do. You can't release rules, then when people come to you asking about issues in them just hand wave it and say "make up something". People want definitive answers, and they don't want to have to debate the appropriate way of house ruling it with all of their opponents.

[Gotthammer]

From today's What's New (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=11200008a):


We recently made the Witch Hunters and Daemonhunters codexes available to download as PDFs. Since then, we've received a spate of emails asking questions about the difference between the PDFs and the original, printed copies. Rather than reply to you all individually, I thought I'd try to answer your questions here.

Firstly, the rules for allied Space Marines and Inducted Imperial Guard were originally written to reference books that have since gone out of print, so we streamlined the rules required to allow players to collect an army of Daemonhunters or Witch Hunters.

The Daemonhunters army list uses the Standard Force Organisation chart, which you'll find on page 87 of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.

The other point that seems to be causing the most confusion is whether or not the PDF versions supersede the printed versions. They don't: you should feel free to continue to use whatever resources you have available to play your games with; the PDF does not overrule or invalidate the printed Codex book.

Yes, this may mean that you and your opponent are using what are essentially different army lists for the same army but not every Inquisition force will comprise of the same elements (highly specialised and secretive forces that they are). And if you'd rather use the same one as your opponent, why not simply decide which version you collectively want to use and share the rules between one another? As for tournaments and gaming events, it's entirely up to the organisers to decide which version to use; it is after all their event.

[HsojVvad]

Well if they could stream line the rules, then they could have streamlined the point costs as well. Being told you can't compare unit to unit because the costs of points is overall the codex, now that allies can't be taken, shouldn't the point costs be cheaper as well?

That is taking a big advantage away from a unit while it still has to pay the same point costs. Point costs should have at least been adjusted.

It's not fair that a DH paper codex goes agaisnt a DH PDF codex. Paper codex has more advantages than PDF codex but the PDF codex still has to pay the same price.

Ah falon it. I am starting to talk like the DA new SM codex all over again. Not worth the agrivation. I shall stay quiet from now on.

[Chuck777]

So according to this update we now have 2 DH and WH Codecies - Store Bought and Printed. To use allies you need to have a store bought copy of the DH/WH codex but to use the army with out allies you can use either version...

This makes ZERO sense. Either remove allies or keep them in, don't half arse it and say 'do what every your friends/gaming group/TO says!

Ugh, why remove allies in the first place if your aim was simply to say that the Store Bought Copy supersedes the PDF?

[Melissia]

This is GW we're talking about.

GW and "making sense" go together like oil and water.

Where the oil has been set on fire.

[rbryce]

Well, i guess i see this as an attempt to "phase out" the allies system in the upcoming dexs, at least after seeing the war on the internet over it...

[Melissia]

And they haven't done so. If this is an attempt, it's a failed attempt, tripping over the first step out the door and falling face first on the ground with feet still inside the door.

[rbryce]

i didnt mean cut it out in one go, but drop it in bits, so the community could aclimatise to the changes more easily.

[MVBrandt]

It's not really visibly an attempt at anything. Allies are going away in the new dexes. That said, unless they remove the pdf's and publish some kind of comment like OLD PRINTED DEXES ARE NOW ILLEGAL, people are still going to use allies, since all signs point to the new dexes being called GREY KNIGHTS and SISTERS OF BATTLE. The net-wide cacaphony will be tremendous.

[Melissia]

I will gladly not use allies to have updated Sisters of Battle rules, especially if they have Celestians with BP+CCW (them not having it is one of the various facepalmy moments of C:WH), Dominions that don't suck (repriced special weapons and a special rule like Scouts?), Retributors with heavy weapons choices that don't suck (a long-ranged anti-tank to compete with the exorcist would be nice), more tanks and infantry choices beyond what's in C:WH, etc etc etc.

But I would not give up allies if I'm just using the same codex as before. I don't even USE allies, but the option being there is the important thing-- C:WH is incredibly limited as it is, with a third of the codex being ****ty ****-**** mc****terton inquisition units, another third of the codex being weird and finicky Ecclesiarchy units, and then the last third of the codex being actually reliable units that one wants to take on a regular basis.

[Hellwolve]

Personally, I hope of improvements and expansion to the Inquistion units - the SoB could disappear alltogether for all I care :P

[Melissia]

Inquisition was the obnoxious kid brother forced upon the third edition Sisters of Battle codex while the parents (GW) went out drinking rather heavily until it forgot about both of them :P

Regardless, rumors point to an Inquisition/Allies supplement.

[Hellwolve]

Fair enough. All in all, they both deserve a (seperate) proper Codex.

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

Agreed agreed agreed we need just a seperate codex for SoB, no Inquisition crap at all.
As for the allies rules well i guess the only way GW can really get rid of it is to upgrade the older codex by bringing new ones out, not some half as$ed attempt at uploading it for everyone and removing it from there, they need to bring every army within 5th ed rules. Stat.

That said, well according to GW yes you cant use allies anymore, at all, even if you show them a copy of your WH codex in ther face, not like i do that anyway, id prefere my army the way it is.
So there idea is to make you buy one army, not mix them for tougher armies of multi coloured SM chapters forming a Crusade to get the best of every army.

[Melissia]

Agreed agreed agreed we need just a seperate codex for SoB, no Inquisition crap at all.
As for the allies rules well i guess the only way GW can really get rid of it is to upgrade the older codex by bringing new ones out, not some half as$ed attempt at uploading it for everyone and removing it from there, they need to bring every army within 5th ed rules. Stat.

That said, well according to GW yes you cant use allies anymore, at all, even if you show them a copy of your WH codex in ther face, not like i do that anyway, id prefere my army the way it is.
So there idea is to make you buy one army, not mix them for tougher armies of multi coloured SM chapters forming a Crusade to get the best of every army.

Actually you can, because they released a blog post about it. If you have the physical codex, you can use allies.

[Hellwolve]

Sister Rosette Soulknyt, are you implying the Inquisition is crap? :p

[Melissia]

In the sense fo them being laughably underpowered, I agree. In the sense of them not fiting in the WH army list, I agree. In the sense of them being stuffed in in a half-assed manner in order to advertise for a friggin' specialist game? I very much agree.

As their own separate supplement / codex, with complete rules for acolytes, daemonhosts, and so on? That'd be fine.

[Hellwolve]

I don't agree with some of the stuff you agree with, but I think we can firmly agree they need or atleast could use their own separate supplement/Codex ;)

[Melissia]

Oh, the last one isn't my opinion. Jervis Johnson flat out stated it-- that's the reason why the Inquisition was added in to the codex. They wanted to advertise for Inquisitor.

[Hellwolve]

Ah, the game Inquisitor...Made some of my best conversions for it :)

But I sense we're kinda drifting from the topic here ;)

[Revarien]

My gaming club jumped on the whole 'no allies' band-wagon ('course this was after I used a space marine list with an orbital strike and a Callidus Assassin's 'Word in your ear' to place a unit into a tightly knit circle... I only did it for a week, to test it for a tourny, and decided it was too cheesy... ;) ), as soon as the dex released online.

Soon as I brought my sisters up to play with them for the first time (been patiently painting them and converting, etc. ), no one knew about the downloaded-dex ruling... and they all thought I switched to sisters because of "not being allowed allies" :rolleyes:

Soooo, now I have to inform each of them of the change and probably have to prove it a few times. *sigh*

As far as the dex is concerned though, why do they not just load up those pages? Or the fluff for that matter? seems like it'd be an easy fix. Real easy fix.

[Melissia]

I used a space marine list with an orbital strikeI assume you mean a chapter master's orbital strike, and not the heavy support choice orbital strike in DH/WH? You can't take the latter in a Space Marine army (you cannot ally in heavy support choices from the DH/WH codices-- 0-1 HQ, 0-1 Elite, 0-2 Troops, and 0-1 FA, but no HS)... and the former has a lot of scatter and requires an expensive unit...

[Revarien]

I assume you mean a chapter master's orbital strike...

'Course, Melissia ;)

[Melissia]

Good, just making sure.

[Undeadreagan]

Oohh hooo I have been a faithful SoB and DH player for years now, 3 to be exact, and I have been waiting ever so long to see our SoB/DH Codicies updated. We could really use some updates so that we have it a little easier with this edition of the rules and the other newly released codex(s). Not complaining, but you all know that playing these two armies is taxing at best. lol.
Half of the Grey Knights special abilities which make them so expensive have been rendered useless, and the sisters could use some more psyker specific updates, seeing how a lot of their psyker weapons can be countered by some rule or another that disqualifies it from applying, (the new Tyranid Swarmlord, for instance).
And a good ole fashioned redefining of what a daemon is would be nice. All in all, I love my two armies, but hey, my daemonhunter codex is still first edition, so i mean, you would think that they deserve a little more attention in terms of codex update priority as opposed to Space Marines, Blood Angels, or Guard.


Again, not complaining about any of the above, I personally loved the updates in the new codices, but I just wanted to put my two cents out there

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

Just as Melissia said, the Inquisition aspects of the WH codex should never have been in with the SoB at all.
On there own, well if they put them in with there own codex i would say that they were not crap, as long as they upgrade them, and they stay right away from SoB.

Inquisition on there own, well if all joined together with GK and Storm troopers would be interesting, atleast they at present still get Orbital Strikes, hope they still allow it in further codex.

[thecactusman17]

I'd expect that Inq. Lords will get one or two free like the current Space Marine HQs.

I don't get the hate for SoB and Inquisitors working together in a book. I really don't. We're essentially talking about two militant orders explicitley charged with enforcing religious issues. There is no decent well-argued reason to say that they are incompatible.

[chromedog]

I did notice that they also removed the CREDITS and publishing details as well as the copyright date page on the pdf.

There's probably a breach of the various publishing rules there as well.


I'm still using my book copy - but I've NEVER used inducted units or ALLIES.
I also don't expect to win games with it - but 40k isn't a serious game, it's for ****s & giggles over beer and pretzels.

I gave up trophy hunting back in the early 90s (after my 8th one).
Your first trophy win is a buzz.
The next few dilute the impact.
After a while, it's just another piece of crap you have to dust.

[Revarien]

I'd expect that Inq. ...


Nobody expects the [spanish] inquisition!

That's the only python quote I never get to use.... apologies. :rolleyes:

[DarkLink]

I'd expect that Inq. Lords will get one or two free like the current Space Marine HQs.

I don't get the hate for SoB and Inquisitors working together in a book. I really don't. We're essentially talking about two militant orders explicitley charged with enforcing religious issues. There is no decent well-argued reason to say that they are incompatible.

It's not that they're incomparable. It's that they aren't the same, and some people don't really care about Inquisitors themselves, at least not on the battlefield.

Essentially, Inquisitors are like FBI agents who roam around looking for bad guys and have significant political power. Sister of Battle, on the other hand, are actual soldiers, who fight wars and guard dignitaries and the like. One has a clearly defined place on the battlefield. The other... not so much.